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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2009, 4:03 AM
Joborule Joborule is offline
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http://calgarystampede.com/upload/me...2008-03-04.pdf

Where the big four building was previously is the ideal spot for the Saddledome. The spot named 'Additional Exhibition Space.'

That should be enough space for an arena. The coke stage would be moved south of it. The place is getting crowed though for midway. Can something the size of the Saddledome still be functional for something? Or should it be removed to have more space and alternative development? What do you guys think the future of the Saddledome should be?
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2009, 4:08 PM
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With the dual arena it would be possible to split the Flames / Hitman / Roughnecks between them allowing for more non-sporting use of the arenas. Concerts, trade-shows, events, etc. could be more actively pursued as sources of revenue. The dome's removable seating allows for a good amount of clear floorspace (I wonder if the new building would have the capability for international size ice?). I'm not sure about the economic feasibility of this, but I believe it is fairly common in other markets.

re: parking
I believe the plan is for extensive underground parking to be included in the redevelopment. The desire is to make Stampede Park actually look like a park and to eliminate a significant portion of the surface parking.

I wish they would post a few more details on their site but it looks promising, even with what is there now. Stampede Park will not look like Stampeded Park in 10 years.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 3:40 AM
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With the dual arena it would be possible to split the Flames / Hitman / Roughnecks between them allowing for more non-sporting use of the arenas. Concerts, trade-shows, events, etc. could be more actively pursued as sources of revenue. The dome's removable seating allows for a good amount of clear floorspace (I wonder if the new building would have the capability for international size ice?). I'm not sure about the economic feasibility of this, but I believe it is fairly common in other markets.

re: parking
I believe the plan is for extensive underground parking to be included in the redevelopment. The desire is to make Stampede Park actually look like a park and to eliminate a significant portion of the surface parking.

I wish they would post a few more details on their site but it looks promising, even with what is there now. Stampede Park will not look like Stampeded Park in 10 years.
i agree that having a dual arena will allow for both Flames games and other events to be happening at once. that would be a spectacular idea.

however, turning Stampede Park look like an actual park will just ruin the Stampede. all one has to do to look at an example of this is take a look west to our PNE grounds. the city has been doing good job of making it look like a park, but it also takes away from having a respectable Stampede sized fair.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 5:38 AM
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I think they plan to keep the SW corner as usable fairground type area (likely with pavement) - but that doesn't mean it has to be a parking lot. That being said, it is likely they will keep some of it as surface parking given the cash cow that must be for them ($11/entrance throughout the year) - as business density in the area increases I can only see that going up.

I think with a little care a nice balance can be struck between hard surface areas and greenspace. More important to me is the reduction in vehicle traffic as opposed to the actual increase in grass and trees (although that will be nice too). Not sure if you've ever been to the grounds in the winter but it is an absolute wasteland when it gets cold and snowy. Anything that acts as a windbreak, either building or tree, will be most welcome.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 3:04 PM
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^ Definitely - I agree.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 5:14 PM
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1. Stampede park is the only option in my mind. Anywhere else is just going back to mistakes made over the past decades in other cities (hi Ottawa fans!).

2. To answer "isn't the Saddledome good enough?" - sure, if you don't know any better. I've just had the chance to see an NHL game in 2 newer arenas (Anaheim and Tampa Bay) and all I can say is WOW. Their worst nosebleed seats are better than the Saddledome's upper 2nd level seats. Arena designs since about 1990 or so have made tremendous progress. I don't mind the nosebleeds at the 'Dome but again, wow - I'd kill for our nosebleeds to have such great visibility.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 10:35 PM
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1. Stampede park is the only option in my mind. Anywhere else is just going back to mistakes made over the past decades in other cities (hi Ottawa fans!)
i disagree. anywhere outside of the downtown core would be a mistake. constructing a new arena on the Stampede grounds takes up a lot of room that just isn't there.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 11:40 PM
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^Assuming the existing saddledome would come down, the net gain/loss in space would be zero. There's plenty of space on the Stampede lands.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 12:09 AM
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We know that the lease at the Saddledome ends in 2014 so certainly any decision made on the location would need to based on the timeliness of obtaining the land. I feel that the Stampede needs the Flames as much as the Flames need the Stampede. As much as I like the idea of the Greyhound site (the notion of an arena as a gateway to downtown is stunning, but the pedestrian and traffic access concerns me) I think that land cost could be surprising and acces would be trickly.

I like the big four site, I think that it has lot of potential. It would appear that the Stampede board wants the grounds to become a hub of sorts, entertainment, conferences, hotels etc. So having an arena onsite would be fantastic. I think that if the new arena were to bridge the LRT tracks there is a strong potential for great pedestrian access and a revitalization of the east end of 17th ave.

The PDF map of the expansion shows that the distance from the existing Stampede station would not be too far, which is great. I have said in past threads on this topic that it would FANTASTIC to have a station incorporated into the new arena itself. It would not have to be used fulltime but maybe just for game nights and big concert nights.

As for the Arena itself I see it being around 18,000-21,000 for hockey. The bottom line is that there are going to be WAY more corporate boxes. HOK will likely be the designer as they are ACES with this stuff! But really believe that there will be a number of low cost 500 level seats with great sight lines (see Bell Centre). The Bell Centre is a very well deigned arena. I am partial to the Desjardin Club (essentially the box seats and fhigh end seats) where all the food is included in the price of the ticket. It is a neat concet. Although it is a bit different, i like the way the Philips Arena in Atlanta was done with the boxes all on one side. It makes for one end of the building that can be fancied up for the high end user.



I imagine that since this arena will be largely privately funded that we will see an entertainment centre as well with a smaller concert venue along with some sort of convention space. The Staples centre in LA would be a good model for this kind of facility (Seats 18,997, 2500 club seats, 160 boxes). Attached is the Nokia theatre that seats just over 7000 people. I think that a concert venue of this size would be great as part of the arena and for the city.





As for the Saddledome, it has potential for many things. I doubt that we will see it being used for the Hitmen or Roughnecks (although there is a small chance it would happen). Quite simply put the operational costs of running 2 18,000+ arenas just don't make sense. The Flames are free of the Saddledome lease and I don't think that the Stampede would want to absorb the costs. That being said, if the concert venue doesn't happen at the new arena some modifications to the building could make it useful for a small concert venue around 8000 capacity.

That being said, the long term viability of the Corral is limited. This I could SERIOUSLY see the Stampede modifying the dome into a year round rodeo facility. If it were used as a full time rodeo and indor riding facility it could be used for Rodeo Royal and other events. I am not sure how the Canadian finals Rodeo works but if it could somehow be moved to a "full time rodeo venue" in Calgary that would be great.

Anyway, just some thoughts. I could talk about this all day
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 12:23 AM
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^Great post.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 12:30 AM
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Indeed...indeed.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 12:38 AM
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Thanks Lads!

I will also add that the Sprint Centre in Kansas was very well executed:

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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 1:17 AM
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the Sprint Center would look magnificent on the Greyhound site next to University of Phoenix Stadium:


photo credit: ballparks.com
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 3:04 AM
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the Sprint Center would look magnificent on the Greyhound site next to University of Phoenix Stadium:


photo credit: ballparks.com
You don't like the arena that is already pretty much next to U of Phoenix Stadium?

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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 4:43 AM
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Thanks Lads!

I will also add that the Sprint Centre in Kansas was very well executed:

Kansas City. Kansas is an entire state (which oddly, Kansas City isn't in).

The Sprint Center is absolutely fantastic; it has to be seen in person to be believed. Amazing that Americans will build facilities like this when they don't even have anything to put in it, while we argue for decades over whether or not to build ANYTHING for our existing teams.

What, me a bitter Jets fan?
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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 4:55 AM
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 3:01 PM
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I love Sprint Centre. Whatever gets built for the Flames - if we're going to copy something, let's copy that.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 3:40 PM
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I love sports argument wiki!
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 6:41 PM
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Kansas City. Kansas is an entire state (which oddly, Kansas City isn't in).

The Sprint Center is absolutely fantastic; it has to be seen in person to be believed. Amazing that Americans will build facilities like this when they don't even have anything to put in it, while we argue for decades over whether or not to build ANYTHING for our existing teams.

What, me a bitter Jets fan?
hahaha I know that it is in Kansas city...I was rushing out of work when I typed that... I figured the masses would get the point
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 8:45 PM
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hmm.. how about some engineer's wet dream.. a huge sporting complex that spans the riverbanks at Edworthy Park, and includes a bridge from Shaganappi @ 16th ave to Bow Trail @ Sarcee so I don't have to spend an extra 15 minutes travelling sarcee to 16th ave to get to Shaganappi from Bow trail every freaking day.

Well, I know, this post is maddeningly unhelpful.

How about between the Airport and the new Balzac mall?
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