Streetcar - The Master Plan

[NJD]

Here's an interesting pro-streetcar video from Cincinnati. (you may want to turn down the volume)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRn_M...layer_embedded

[JordanL]

My God Red... you have quite the stick up your ass when it comes to the MAX.

[urbanlife]

To point out something that always seems to get overlooked...anyone can walk faster than the streetcar when it comes to a few stops, which if you are capable of walking but choose to take the streetcar for a few stops, that is kind of a lazy thing.

But what I really wanted to point out is that it is impossible to walk from NW 23rd stop to the stop at Park Blocks at PSU in 20 minutes...it is even more impossible to walk from NW 23rd to the South Waterfront in 35 minutes. So one should never compare walking speed to streetcar speed.


Also, anyone care to point out a city that is a healthy growing city that does not provide a rail system of some kind? Buses should not be the only alternative to driving. It should be a piece to a complex fabric of transportation modes that make a city function.

[erinkg]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

To point out something that always seems to get overlooked...anyone can walk faster than the streetcar when it comes to a few stops, which if you are capable of walking but choose to take the streetcar for a few stops, that is kind of a lazy thing.

But what I really wanted to point out is that it is impossible to walk from NW 23rd stop to the stop at Park Blocks at PSU in 20 minutes...it is even more impossible to walk from NW 23rd to the South Waterfront in 35 minutes. So one should never compare walking speed to streetcar speed.

I agree. You can't even walk from South Waterfront to Riverplace faster than the streetcar. The only time I've walked home (from downtown to SoWa) was when we just missed the streetcar and didn't want to wait 15-20 minutes for the next one. And even then, the streetcar caught up with us right as we got to OHSU (we started walking from 4th and Harrison).

[2oh1]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

To point out something that always seems to get overlooked...anyone can walk faster than the streetcar when it comes to a few stops.

This must be for a few specific stops, because I live near the 10th & Jefferson stop, and I can't even beat the streetcar from there to the library four blocks away, let alone attempt to beat the streetcar to the Pearl. Even for whatever few specific stops people say they can walk faster than the streetcar, I won't believe it until I see it - unless those idiots are complaining about rush hour traffic, in which case my feet are apparently faster than a Porsche. I guess that means Porsches suck, eh.

Every time I'm on the streetcar and I see someone miss it by just a second and choose to run to catch the next stop, I almost never see them make it, and if they do, it means the streetcar hit serious traffic and a red light too... and still, the person who missed it had to run and is now huffing and puffing. I only ever see people try to catch the streetcar in the Pearl where traffic gets hairy. And like I said, they usually don't make it.

I'm not trying to suggest that the streetcar is as fast as a subway would be, but to say it's slower than walking on foot is exaggerating to the point of discrediting oneself in a debate.

[JordanL]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

This must be for a few specific stops, because I live near the 10th & Jefferson stop, and I can't even beat the streetcar from there to the library four blocks away, let alone attempt to beat the streetcar to the Pearl. Even for whatever few specific stops people say they can walk faster than the streetcar, I won't believe it until I see it - unless those idiots are complaining about rush hour traffic, in which case my feet are apparently faster than a Porsche. I guess that means Porsches suck, eh.

Every time I'm on the streetcar and I see someone miss it by just a second and choose to run to catch the next stop, I almost never see them make it, and if they do, it means the streetcar hit serious traffic and a red light too... and still, the person who missed it had to run and is now huffing and puffing. I only ever see people try to catch the streetcar in the Pearl where traffic gets hairy. And like I said, they usually don't make it.

I'm not trying to suggest that the streetcar is as fast as a subway would be, but to say it's slower than walking on foot is exaggerating to the point of discrediting oneself in a debate.

Anytime the streetcar (or MAX for that matter) makes a sharp turn it's dramatically faster to walk, both because of stop signs/lights, and because of the reduced speed of the turns.

This is a very limited scenario however. Unfortunately the streetcar makes about 3-4 sharp turns around PSU, which is the single largest transit destination in the system, which is probably what contributes to the perception of walking being faster. (Also of note, the streetcar has to cross two MAX lines and Broadway in the vicinity, again slowing its travel speed.)

Overall, I absolutely use the streetcar to go places when one is coming. My "walking is faster" opinion usually stems more form the fact that lead times on streetcars are usually pretty close to 20 minutes when I'm traveling, making it faster for me to walk from PSU to the Pearl, but as urbanlife pointed out, not 23rd. (Although I very rarely am traveling from PSU to 23rd.)

I almost always choose to walk from PSU to Powell's, because it's faster. And that is because there simply aren't enough streetcars operating on the line.

[urbanlife]

I usually choose to walk from the PSU to Powells because I like to walk, plus it is only a mile-ish walk, which is a shame that most people in this country consider that too far to walk...The Brooklyn Bridge is almost a mile long walk and New Yorkers have no problem doing that daily.

But seriously, JordanL, you are right, there are not enough streetcars running, the wait time for much of the day should be less than 15 minutes. The 20 minute time between trains means that you will more than always have a lead time before the next train comes by....but then again, we do live in a country where people would rather wait 20 minutes for the train than to make a 15 minute walk.