Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[TonyAnderson]

Group wants to get West on fast track
S.L. Chamber hears report on creating high-speed rail lines

By Laura Hancock

Deseret News
Published: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:46 p.m. MDT


SALT LAKE CITY — It's called Interstate II, the concept of high-speed railroad ribboning through the United States.

Millar and a handful of transportation experts spoke about high-speed rail at the Salt Lake Chamber's Transportation Committee meeting on Thursday. The Utah Transit Authority is a member of a network called the Western High Speed Rail Alliance, with transportation agencies in Reno, Las Vegas, Denver and Phoenix. The idea is that the Western cities will connect into the national network via Denver, and to the planned high-speed rail line that will connect northern and southern California by 2020 via Las Vegas and Reno.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...l?s_cid=rss-30

[TonyAnderson]

I think State Street in Salt Lake County suffers the same problem as the one in Utah County. If the road is just meant to be a high speed hub with a bunch of lanes, then make it a freeway. If it's a commercial and retail mixed-use hub, then a couple lanes on both sides should suffice and more focus should be on the urban feel of it.

[i-215]

There are uses for regional arterials ... even I am not advocating US89 become a freeway. But I do think there's potential near rail stops and in logical places for some urbanization away from State, but near enough that the road can be useful. Dense areas need both transit and rail to survive. For example, I'd be 100% cool with using Orem Blvd for urbanization and transit.

[Nikodemuss]

State Street is hideous, and does have a terrible reputation. But this beautification project and developement will definitely help. South Salt Lake, Murray, and Midvale have the greatest opportunity to utilize State.

[SLCdude]

High speed rail sounds like a great idea. Thanks TonyAnderson!

[urbanboy]

Originally Posted by TonyAnderson

Group wants to get West on fast track
S.L. Chamber hears report on creating high-speed rail lines

By Laura Hancock

Deseret News
Published: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:46 p.m. MDT


SALT LAKE CITY — It's called Interstate II, the concept of high-speed railroad ribboning through the United States.

Millar and a handful of transportation experts spoke about high-speed rail at the Salt Lake Chamber's Transportation Committee meeting on Thursday. The Utah Transit Authority is a member of a network called the Western High Speed Rail Alliance, with transportation agencies in Reno, Las Vegas, Denver and Phoenix. The idea is that the Western cities will connect into the national network via Denver, and to the planned high-speed rail line that will connect northern and southern California by 2020 via Las Vegas and Reno.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...l?s_cid=rss-30

I sure hope they succeed at implementing this! I really think Salt Lake City should save the 2200 south rail corridor for a high-speed rail line.

Originally Posted by urbanboy

Oh my, wouldn't that be amazing! Something like this:

[TonyAnderson]

So what are the benefits of HSR over flying?

[stayinginformed]

Benefits of HSR:

You don't have to go to the airport 1-2 hours in advance to check in--just show up, buy a ticket and get on the train.
No checking baggage.
You don't have to sit in a pressurized cabin.
Train stations closer to city centers--rather than airports on the outskirts of town.
Run by electricity rather than fossil fuels.

Downside:

Takes longer to get from point A to B. Though the time differentials will go down as technology improves. Japan is building their first magnetic levitation train which will go 581 km/h (361 mph)--it will be completed in 2025.

Usually highly subsidized by the state.

[urbanboy]

Multiple stops along the way. but the more options for transportation, the better. Additionally you'll get to see a close up of more of the beautiful country-side.

I think it's very important that we, in the intermountain west, don't miss out on an opportunity to connect our major cities into the new interstate high-speed rail system that will be implemented both in the eastern United States and the west coast. We wouldn't want to miss out on any opportunities we might get as a result.

[xseven]

Originally Posted by TonyAnderson

So what are the benefits of HSR over flying?

Simple travel.

Acela Express is awesome... Yet sucks by international standards.

We (the US) are that fat kid in gym class just trying to keep up...

[skyguy414]

Just to throw in my 2 pennies in on the train vs plane issue. There are certainly advantages and disadvantages to both. Trains will never go as fast as planes, ever. Not only that, trains have to take a pre-determined path every single time (they're on a track), whereas planes can alter their route if necessary. So there's more flexibility and shortcuts in that regard.

Just like airlines, showing up just before departure on Acela or any other HSR service is going to cost more than purchasing in advance.

Even amtrak suggests to arrive at least 30 minutes before departure and some HSR lines like Eurostar (the chunnel) require you to check in 40 minutes prior. And some require you go through security (don't be surprised to see this in the US soon).

In many instances, one train can greatly affect the reliability and schedule of other trains because they all use the same track in many circumstances. This isn't as much of an issue for planes. Remember when a train got stuck in the chunnel last year? Not only did it shut down the whole line but a train full of passengers sat in the chunnel on the train all night.

Planes have a better safety record.

So over all, while there are definite pros for traveling via train, air travel offers more efficiency in terms of reliability and moving passengers more effectively. There is also more competition which can bring down prices.

HSR has come a long way and I am all for its development. Having traveled by plane and train (including HSR), plane travel is the way to go for me (although I am somewhat biased towards planes)

[scottharding]

One other advantage to taking a train instead of a plane that for some reason was not mentioned: It's cheaper. Airline tickets are expensive.
But I actually think a high speed rail connection would be considered more of an alternative to driving than flying. Slowly, the country is turning away from the automobile era, and better alternatives are being explored. I think a high speed rail connection like this would be awesome.

[DMTower]

^^^ also, you have a LOT more room on a train. You can get up and move around, lay down to sleep, close cabin doors for privacy, and open the window.

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

I sure hope they succeed at implementing this! I really think Salt Lake City should save the 2200 south rail corridor for a high-speed rail line.

If HRS becomes a reality between SLC and Denver, it would likely follow the existing tracks Amtrak uses through Provo and Green River, CO. Putting a rail corridor in through 2200 S. wouldn't do much good as there are no active tracks in Park City to connect to once trains get up Parley's Canyon.

[skierforlife17]

Originally Posted by stayinginformed

Benefits of HSR:

You don't have to go to the airport 1-2 hours in advance to check in--just show up, buy a ticket and get on the train.
No checking baggage.
You don't have to sit in a pressurized cabin.
Train stations closer to city centers--rather than airports on the outskirts of town.
Run by electricity rather than fossil fuels.

Downside:

Takes longer to get from point A to B. Though the time differentials will go down as technology improves. Japan is building their first magnetic levitation train which will go 581 km/h (361 mph)--it will be completed in 2025.

Usually highly subsidized by the state.

I know this will change one day.. But isnt the electricity generated by fossil fuels too?? so its not actually a positive aspect of trains? they should put wind turbines on trains that generate electricity on these highspeed trains. I mean 100 MPH wind must be able to generate a lot of energy

[John Martin]

I'm curious about how often there are delays with HSR. I've taken Amtrak before... and I'll never take it again. Nothing but ridiculous delays... it's truly pathetic. Obviously if the HSR trains were on their own track, then that probably wouldn't be a problem. Regardless, I would prefer a Las Vegas/LA line.

[WeST]

Originally Posted by skyguy414

Just to throw in my 2 pennies in on the train vs plane issue. There are certainly advantages and disadvantages to both. Trains will never go as fast as planes, ever. Not only that, trains have to take a pre-determined path every single time (they're on a track), whereas planes can alter their route if necessary. So there's more flexibility and shortcuts in that regard.

Just like airlines, showing up just before departure on Acela or any other HSR service is going to cost more than purchasing in advance.

Even amtrak suggests to arrive at least 30 minutes before departure and some HSR lines like Eurostar (the chunnel) require you to check in 40 minutes prior. And some require you go through security (don't be surprised to see this in the US soon).

In many instances, one train can greatly affect the reliability and schedule of other trains because they all use the same track in many circumstances. This isn't as much of an issue for planes. Remember when a train got stuck in the chunnel last year? Not only did it shut down the whole line but a train full of passengers sat in the chunnel on the train all night.

Planes have a better safety record.

So over all, while there are definite pros for traveling via train, air travel offers more efficiency in terms of reliability and moving passengers more effectively. There is also more competition which can bring down prices.

HSR has come a long way and I am all for its development. Having traveled by plane and train (including HSR), plane travel is the way to go for me (although I am somewhat biased towards planes)

I like the points you make here. While I am a big fan of urban mass transit, such as light rail, I am a opponent of HSR. I think it is a massive waste of money that is unnecessary. The airline industry does a great job of moving people over long distances. Also, the idea that rail is cheaper is untrue. They are basically the same price, but air is much more efficient at moving massive amounts of people.

Maybe the biggest reason that I oppose it, is because I don't like the idea of impose that much track and accompanying infrastructure over our lands when we can fly and not severely impact the ecosystem on land and sea.

Bring on more BRT, LRT and other smart mass transit, but leave the HSR fantasy in Europe.

[TonyAnderson]

I mean I definitely see the advantages in terms of convenience in HSR over flying, especially now since trains aren't as near a security risk as planes, but I'm curious as to the actual costs and environmental impact. How many people could a typical HSR train accommodate and how much cheaper do you think trips would be? How about resource usage?

The problem I have with the Intermountain line proposed, is all the major cities around the Mountain West are so spread out, and usually have geographical features (like mountains) in the way. It just doesn't seem efficient.

[cololi]

Originally Posted by WeST

I like the points you make here. While I am a big fan of urban mass transit, such as light rail, I am a opponent of HSR. I think it is a massive waste of money that is unnecessary. The airline industry does a great job of moving people over long distances. Also, the idea that rail is cheaper is untrue. They are basically the same price, but air is much more efficient at moving massive amounts of people.

Maybe the biggest reason that I oppose it, is because I don't like the idea of impose that much track and accompanying infrastructure over our lands when we can fly and not severely impact the ecosystem on land and sea.

Bring on more BRT, LRT and other smart mass transit, but leave the HSR fantasy in Europe.

Agree. Not for me.

[skyguy414]

Originally Posted by TonyAnderson

I mean I definitely see the advantages in terms of convenience in HSR over flying, especially now since trains aren't as near a security risk as planes

I'd say trains and train stations are far more vulnerable to security risks than airplanes or airports are. Train stations are crowded and passengers and their bags don't need to be screened. Train stations and trains have been targets of far more terrorist attacks than airports or airliners have (i.e. Moscow a few weeks ago). I'd say the safest place a person could possibly be in a city is on the secure side of an airport terminal.