NEW ORLEANS | Project/Development Thread

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by LouisianaRush

Is this the section they are talking about?

The proposals I've seen have the elevated expressway ending at St. Bernard. East of St. Bernard, the highway runs on its own right-of-way (not above Claiborne) so there's nothing to restore underneath it. Personally, I hope they restore the roundabout at St. Bernard and Claiborne. It would instantly set New Orleans apart; very few cities are building roundabouts in the US.

Originally Posted by Uptowner

1. The Feds wouldn't probably approve.
2. The State is more than likely not going want to pay to tear this down, reconstruct I-610 and then redo the Pontchartrain Expwy.
3. You'll have to accomodate and extra 4 lanes between Gentilly and Lakeview. I can see the Lakeview NIMBY's now.
4. You'd have to ad 2-4 lanes between 17th Street and the Superdome. Not happening.
5. Once the CBD does finally get redeveloped traffic would be a disaster. It'll be anyway.

The Feds do have to approve the "demapping" of I-10, but Ray LaHood is running USDOT, and they're all for "progressive" transportation policy. I'm pretty confident that they'll approve any demapping as long as another alignment is provided (in New Orleans' case, I-610).

Transportation departments measure traffic in AADT (average annual daily traffic). I-610 traffic counts are still down from the storm, but they peaked around 1997 between 90000 and 70000 vehicles, depending on where you measure. Here in Chicago, the Edens (a similar road, 6-lane with no auxiliary lane) easily handles 150000 vehicles.

Now, the Claiborne segment of I-10 handles between 110000 and 120000 vehicles. If we assume half of those vehicles are heading downtown via surface Claiborne and half to the bridge via 610/Pontchartrain Expwy, then 60000 vehicles will be added to 610 for a total of 140000 and 60000 will go to surface Claiborne. Now, 60000 vehicles is quite a lot for a surface road, but it's not impossible if the road has 6 or 8 lanes and infrequent stoplights. But then you're basically putting a suburban road through the city. It would be like Claiborne uptown, or Elysian Fields - just a big barrier with fast traffic.

There's also accounting for induced traffic, too. Traffic that's currently on I-10 might take a "third option" route that isn't 610 or surface Claiborne, and that traffic will get spread across many other roads. Or, traffic might just vanish in the long run, as the businesses and employees that use I-10 every day re-arrange themselves to avoid making that trip.

[greenparrot]

Originally Posted by Blitzen

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.s...g_to_disc.html

Mayor Landrieu willing to discuss dismantling the Claiborne Overpass!

When I first heard this proposal, I thought it was a waste of time, but the more I learn about it, the more I'm liking it. It will cost $100 Million to rebuild the overpass, which is about to exceed its lifespan; or about $30 to just dismantle it. More drivers at street level on Claiborne, Canal, Galvez, and Broad Streets means more businesses, shops, restaurants, and residents there, instead of the suburbs. Greater density is exactly what New Orleans needs and has been lacking ever since the interstate system was built.

Also, where the overpass meets I-10 near the Superdome, there are many blocks of vacant prime-real estate that can't be developed because of the overpasses cutting across the lots. Any other city would kill for a few unused blocks of downtown land to develop.

If they upgrade I-10/610 and synchronized the traffic lights on the surface streets, I'd be all for this proposal. Thoughts??

we need more density in these areas? I think it was not the interstate system but the fact that these areas became unlivable for someone trying to raise a family and other factors. Suburbs did provide an alternative to living in a crime infested cramped area. People from the suburbs are suddenly going to want to move in these areas? Who are these people? Many of the people using this stretch of the expressway are coming from the East & Slidell...transients. Is this going to promote home ownership or investment in this area or rental activities? Maybe some but I kind of doubt it. Let's see...we tear down the expressway and build a brand spanking new 8 lane road with a pretty neutral ground. Is this going to make living there any more attractive?

I'm not sure how Broad st fits into the equation either.

The only benefit I see is that there won't be an ugly exressway disecting downtown but doubt any substantive urban renewal short of other socialogical things being fixed.

[Uptowner]

Originally Posted by greenparrot

we need more density in these areas? I think it was not the interstate system but the fact that these areas became unlivable for someone trying to raise a family and other factors. Suburbs did provide an alternative to living in a crime infested cramped area. People from the suburbs are suddenly going to want to move in these areas? Who are these people? Many of the people using this stretch of the expressway are coming from the East & Slidell...transients. Is this going to promote home ownership or investment in this area or rental activities? Maybe some but I kind of doubt it. Let's see...we tear down the expressway and build a brand spanking new 8 lane road with a pretty neutral ground. Is this going to make living there any more attractive?

I'm not sure how Broad st fits into the equation either.

The only benefit I see is that there won't be an ugly exressway disecting downtown but doubt any substantive urban renewal short of other socialogical things being fixed.

Exactly.
That's why I say just rebuild it. They can make it look decent like the the Pontchartrain Expwy from the Superdome to the CCC and put a HOV lan overhead for the people coming from the East and Slidell. It really makes no sense. It's like saying "we can make a few blocks pretty and who cares about people from The East, Northshore, or Westbank".

[Uptowngirl]

You are right...they/we don't (care that is).

That raised expressway damaged a neighborhood...and if the people that live in the city want the expressway gone, then it should be gone.

Otherwise I'm all for just running a massive raised expressway through residential and commercial areas in Slidell (for example)

[Uptowner]

Originally Posted by Uptowngirl

You are right...they/we don't (care that is).

That raised expressway damaged a neighborhood...and if the people that live in the city want the expressway gone, then it should be gone.

Otherwise I'm all for just running a massive raised expressway through residential and commercial areas in Slidell (for example)

People didn't move because the highway came through (unless they were directly displaced).
People moved because:
1. Suburbs became more desirable (whites fled to Jefferson, blacks to the 7th ward and east.
2. Desegregation took away the importance of all-black business areas and blacks began to frequent Canal St and other predominantly white commercial areas.
3. Multiple areas of this city rapidly deteriorated without the help of an expressway.

As far as "if the people that live in the city want the expressway gone, then it should be gone."

1. Only about 15% of the people in the area that supports this city actually live in the city.
2. New Orleans can't survive without the suburbs and vice versa.
3. The City can't do anything with something that it doesn't own. The city has little, if any, say about federal highways. They don't have any authority over state highways.
4. This decision ultimately rests in the hands of FWHA and NHTSA

Let's just say the highway is torn down and you get your eight lane boulevard.
1. You have a wide suburban style highway with probably at least 10 major traffic lights right through the core of the city.
2. Traffic won't just disappear. Some will go to 610 and some will just take other streets making other neighborhoods less desirable.
3. You've cut off direct access from the new hospital to points east.
4. You've cut off direct access between Uptown and the Westbank to and from the East.

The thing that gets me everytime this proposal comes up is that most of the proponents don't care about or take time to see how the change affects the area as a whole. They just want it now. If there was viable way to do this then I would be all for it, but how many cities remove their MAIN freeway.

San Francisco didn't, I-95 still runs directly across Manhattan, etc.

[sguil1]

Mayor to offer $16M for Methodist Hospital

Mayor Mitch Landrieu announced today the city will purchase a hospital property in eastern New Orleans plans to have it open by 2013.

The $16.25 million deal would involve the Methodist Hospital site, for which former Mayor Ray Nagin had offered $40 million. Landrieu shot down that proposal soon after taking office in May and reshaped a hospital district for New Orleans East that took office July 1 that will be tasked with running the new facility.

Universal Health Services, which owns Methodist, turned down Landrieu’s first offer of $9.7 million. UHS did not have an immediate comment on the mayor’s latest proposal.

The latest deal only involves the Methodist campus, and not Lakeland Medical Pavilion and the Lake Forest Surgical Center that had been part of the Nagin proposal.

“It has been nearly five years since Hurricane Katrina, and it is shameful that more than 80,000 residents in New Orleans East, the 9th Ward and parts of Gentilly still have to drive up to 30 minutes to an emergency room,” Landrieu said.

The mayor said he believes it will cost $110 million to renovate Methodist, about $53 million cheaper than the Nagin administration’s had calculated.

Methodist Hospital has been vacant since Hurricane Katrina, and residents of New Orleans East have complained to City Hall about the lack of acute care services within 30 minutes of their homes.

http://neworleanscitybusiness.com/bl...dist-hospital/

[greenparrot]

Originally Posted by Uptowngirl

Otherwise I'm all for just running a massive raised expressway through residential and commercial areas in Slidell (for example)

sounds kind of spiteful...don't you think?

[sooperpaz]

Originally Posted by greenparrot

sounds kind of spiteful...don't you think?

that's a good point though. just because we live in a city means we can have interstates tearing through our neighborhoods, while it's offensive if an interstate tears through a suburb like slidell? i hate the whole city-vs.-suburb thing that this will inevitably turn into, but if you live in the city, you should have more of a say on what goes on in that city than if you live in the suburb outside of the city. if you live on the northshore, then go ahead and fight tearing down interstates on the northshore. i think the people whose neighborhood consists of underpasses and car exhaust fumes should be the ones to have more of a say in this.

if anything, this will bring more business to places like the east that really need non-residential industry because it will be harder to make the commute to downtown.

[llamaorama]

Its true, cities that have demolished freeways were removing what were in reality glorified offramps, short spurs that only went a few blocks and terminated onto surface roads. Sounds like a horrible idea to put a busy and important cross-city expressway at grade where it will, what, still be super wide, noisy, and hard to cross.

[sguil1]

N.O. biomedical corridor continues to move forward

Jim McNamara, president of the Biosciences District, discusses the latest developments in the biomedical corridor. Says LSU Academic Medical Center should break ground around mid-fall. See link for video.


http://www.wwltv.com/video?id=98677109&sec=554827

[jowens]

Originally Posted by Uptowner

San Francisco didn't, I-95 still runs directly across Manhattan, etc.

While I-95 runs does run directly across Manhattan at the GW Bridge, it's approximately 10 miles to the north of midtown and 15 miles to the north Downtown.

[Uptowner]

Originally Posted by jowens

While I-95 runs does run directly across Manhattan at the GW Bridge, it's approximately 10 miles to the north of midtown and 15 miles to the north Downtown.

My point is that a surface street doesn't connect the GW Bridge and the Cross Bronx Expressway. Same with the BQE, Major Deegan, and Queens Midtown. How far they are from Midtown and Downtown don't make a difference as they cut through neighborhoods just the same.

[sooperpaz]

I was (un)lucky enough to have lived within a few blocks of major highways in both Brooklyn and Queens in NY. While my neighborhoods were vibrant, they quickly turned to abandoned lots and buildings as you got within a block of the raised highways.

I was also lucky enough to have ridden my bike from Lakeview to the Quarter today, crossing under I-10, where pleasant neighborhoods similarly decayed. A block away from I-10 were people out on their porches and even a small festival. Under the highway were thugs and abandoned cars. It was sickening.

You can't use other cities to defend raised highways cutting through urban cores. It doesn't work there like it doesn't work here. Sacrificing miles of neighborhoods and homes and businesses so you don't have to sit in traffic just doesn't add up to me.

I hope NOLA can remember that whole non-selfish thing long enough to make things like this happen.

[Uptowner]

Originally Posted by sooperpaz

I was (un)lucky enough to have lived within a few blocks of major highways in both Brooklyn and Queens in NY. While my neighborhoods were vibrant, they quickly turned to abandoned lots and buildings as you got within a block of the raised highways.

I was also lucky enough to have ridden my bike from Lakeview to the Quarter today, crossing under I-10, where pleasant neighborhoods similarly decayed. A block away from I-10 were people out on their porches and even a small festival. Under the highway were thugs and abandoned cars. It was sickening.

You can't use other cities to defend raised highways cutting through urban cores. It doesn't work there like it doesn't work here. Sacrificing miles of neighborhoods and homes and businesses so you don't have to sit in traffic just doesn't add up to me.

I hope NOLA can remember that whole non-selfish thing long enough to make things like this happen.

Ok, let's keep it strictly New Orleans then. Why is South Claiborne and the portions of North Claiborne east of the I-10 similarly decayed? What's wrong with North Broad? How about O.C. Haley and Washington Ave? Chef Menteur? Earhart?
Why is most of the development along the Westbank Expwy in better condition along the elevated portion than the development along the ground level portion? Why isn't the area adjacent to the Pontchartrain Expw deteriorated south of Oretha Castle Haley?
Metairie is split in half by a freeway surrounded by giant walls, yet it doesn't deteriorate until you cross a surface boulevard.

The whole "freeway killed the neighborhood" argument is flawed as best. There are too many social/political factors that play into the demise of a neighborhood, especially during the time that the highway was built.


It's not about not being able to sit in traffic. It's connectivity. You have people that live and work on opposite sides of the CBD who have to move back in forth. You have lines of trucks in and out of here every morning headed to the port (the only thing we currently have going outside of tourism). You have 1,000,000 people who make up this area living outside of New Orleans. Point blank, there is no way that you can rationalize removing a major interstate.

Frankly, we have a lot more to be worried about then to sit here and argue over a stupid idea like this. We're facing a major deficit, we have a crime problem, education is in toilet, etc. and we want to fight about 2 miles of highway.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Uptowner

The whole "freeway killed the neighborhood" argument is flawed as best. There are too many social/political factors that play into the demise of a neighborhood, especially during the time that the highway was built.

You're right. The argument is an oversimplification. In many cases, expressways were pitched as a way to solve the problems of the inner city, which was already decaying by the 1960s when most major urban freeways were built.

On the other hand - Claiborne under I-10 is a sewer. There's no denying that. It acts as a barrier between the CBD and the areas in Lower Mid-City where, seemingly, the entire city is resting its hopes of redevelopment. It is littered with cracked stretches of pavement and rusted-out hulks of cars. The meager attempts to build public space and plazas under the highway have failed utterly.

It also needs replacement. It has reached the end of its service life. If it was in a northern city, it would have crumbled away long ago due to the harsh weather and even harsher road salt. Our more forgiving climate has preserved the road a little longer, but it too will start to become unsafe soon. Replacement of the elevated viaduct will be a major project, possibly on the order of $100-$200 million - or more, if they decide they want more lanes.

With that kind of money, you need to make sure you're making the right decision. The press and the citizenry have jumped to conclusions, either cheering or sounding the alarm that a San Francisco-style highway teardown is in the works. You have seemingly jumped to conclusions, claiming that the highway should be replaced with another one just like it. Ultimately, we're all just dicking around, since none of us are professional highway planners.

I think we need a proper study to determine what options there are for I-10, and what the consequences and costs of each option will be. Landrieu seems to be moving cautiously on this one, so I'm hoping he'll push for a study like the one I described. If we spend $1 million on a study, discover that the highway can be removed and the traffic shifted to a better location for less money than a outright replacement, then that will only benefit the city and its bottom line. I would hope, though, that the planners keep an open mind and evaluate many potential options fairly.

[sgray]

Didn't I hear Mitch Landrieu mention something about a first class mall in New Orleans East when he announced the purchase of the old Methodist Hospital? Are they moving forward with the big mall at the site of the old Lake Forest Shopping Center?

[ardecila]

They approved the TIF and tax break for that thing a long time ago. I thought the developers were just lining up money?

[greenparrot]

Originally Posted by sooperpaz

that's a good point though. just because we live in a city means we can have interstates tearing through our neighborhoods, while it's offensive if an interstate tears through a suburb like slidell? i hate the whole city-vs.-suburb thing that this will inevitably turn into, but if you live in the city, you should have more of a say on what goes on in that city than if you live in the suburb outside of the city. if you live on the northshore, then go ahead and fight tearing down interstates on the northshore. i think the people whose neighborhood consists of underpasses and car exhaust fumes should be the ones to have more of a say in this.

if anything, this will bring more business to places like the east that really need non-residential industry because it will be harder to make the commute to downtown.

1st of all I don't lve in Slidell or the northshore & 2nd they already have 2 interstates going through slidell. There will be NO increase "non-residential industry" , whatever that is, in NO East because of this, either way.

maybe we should now tear down I-610...I'm sure some Lakeview residents would be fine with that. The same people who are fine with tearing down I-10 for "sake of the neighborhood" are fine with expanding I-610 and disrupting that area. Very hypocritical to me.

[sooperpaz]

sorry for any hostility that came across...don't want to argue about this, just interested in seeing what the other side thought. i think we can just wait and see if it even goes anywhere.

[greenparrot]

Originally Posted by sooperpaz

sorry for any hostility that came across...don't want to argue about this, just interested in seeing what the other side thought. i think we can just wait and see if it even goes anywhere.

no problem