Future Transit System Ideas - Ottawa/Gatineau | Fantasy

[jk1982]

Originally Posted by Dado

Why go to Walkley Yard rather than the main train station on Tremblay, which will be served by LRT direct into downtown Ottawa?

In all honesty Dado, just loook at the past, when it is there, I will believe it, but, the main VIA Rail terminial on Tremblay does not have the spurs or the room to accomodate a commuter rail terminus, with via already using it... Tremblay has alot less traffic (atleast westwardly) than the Tremblay Road location.

[jk1982]

Alright, now my Inner City Plan...

Purple Routes - The route is the O Train routes. Going suburb to suburb with a major transfer point with the existing OTrain route. (Kanata to Millenium Route A, Orleans to Barrhaven Route B, Airport (Walkley Yards) to Gatineau Route C, Kanata South to Hurdman Park Route D)
Red Routes - Transitway routes, to avoid further congestion on all the roads, two one way tunnels would be constructed for ALL routes to use (no buses on Rideau Either)
Blue Routes - HOV Lanes, from the new underground corridor would have all routes that serve East along Rideau St.
Green Route - Quicklink - Served by 40 Foot buses, to use to releave pressures and to encourage growth.

I didnt include the Transitway Stops...

[adam-machiavelli]

Post deleted

[blackjagger]

Wow. I don't agree with everything (the Hunt Club corridor in particular), but at the same time wish that Ottawa had that type of long term vision instead of our weak 20 year plan.

The Red alignment is very similar to a secondary line I had in mind, though with it stopping at Bayshore and Blair with on street Grade ROW when possible and a tunnel from Bronson to King Edward (would prefer 100% tunneled but..).

Great Work.

Josh

[adam-machiavelli]

Originally Posted by blackjagger

...with on street Grade ROW when possible and a tunnel from Bronson to King Edward...

That's what I imagine too but to show it here would make the map even more cluttered. I also agree that the Hunt Club corridor may be redundant given the green line immediately to the north.

Also, thank you for the compliment.

[Kitchissippi]

Good fun to see, but I find having just one LRT line and a BRT link crossing the Ottawa River won't cut it. It would be nicer if your Green Line continued on to form a large circular route, crossing the river at Kettle Island in the east and Deschenes Rapids in the west, across Gatineau via the Plateau. A circle line would greatly improve the navigability of the system and by-pass downtown congestion for cross-town commuters.

[Ottawan]

Nice map... incorporates alot of the same elements that I wanted in my dream plan earlier in the thread (I especially think Montreal Road, and the central stretch of Bank Street are musts sooner rather than later). I like how easy it would be to get to anywhere from anywhere by transferring from line to line.

Just on a side note - your Holland/Merivale rapid transit line doesn't work as drawn, since Merivale does not meet with Holland (it's Fisher that does), but rather hits Carling at Westgate.

[adam-machiavelli]

Thanks for the comments.
Kitchissippi:
There is actually a second crossing south of Tache.
I based the routes on where there is current or confirmed future urban development (ex: between Kanata and Stittsville, and along du Plateau) so as to minimize sprawl. For example, with the exception of running through the Greenbelt, I didn't extend routes into areas immediately south of the Airport and Barrhaven, as many people have suggested.

Regarding your other suggestion, I excluded a connection between Klondike and Aylmer because it would have to run through sensitive environmental lands and promote exurban growth in Dunrobin.

This plan is based on a combination of the following documents: current rapid transit plan, old rapid transit plan, Rapibus corridors, Mayor's Task Force on Transportation, Spacing's proposal for a Bank subway, and various transit proposals added to this site over the years.

Ottawan:
Because this map is more a mental map than spacially accurate, I simplified intersections to "t"s, "x"s, and "+"s. The BRT line, which would just be made up of lanes or bus bays would run south on Holland then west on Carling and southwest on Merivale. The Westgate station would be close to the pharmacy (Shoppers or Rexall, I forget) so past Merivale. But the first diamond south of Carling would probably be close enough to Carling so you could walk to Westgate.

[adam-machiavelli]

Post deleted.

[KHOOLE]

I like it.
To get anywhere from anywhere is what it should be.
I least someone is thinking ahead.
Here's a few thoughts, for what they are worth:

1. no direct link between the train and the airport
2. bus station/police station not easily accessible
3. will the LRT go to Gatineau Airport (emergency/secondary airline landing)
4. use of POW bridge for blue line shunt in off-peak times
(direct casino to airport route)
5. can we do better for a faster Congress Centre to Airport pathway?
6. a station directly at the Ottawa Civic Hospital
7. Ottawa General Hospital also needs a more direct access route. Sick people are the least mobile

No criticism. Just thinking out loud.

[adam-machiavelli]

Originally Posted by KHOOLE

I like it.
To get anywhere from anywhere is what it should be.
I least someone is thinking ahead.
Here's a few thoughts, for what they are worth:

1. no direct link between the train and the airport
2. bus station/police station not easily accessible
3. will the LRT go to Gatineau Airport (emergency/secondary airline landing)
4. use of POW bridge for blue line shunt in off-peak times
(direct casino to airport route)
5. can we do better for a faster Congress Centre to Airport pathway?
6. a station directly at the Ottawa Civic Hospital
7. Ottawa General Hospital also needs a more direct access route. Sick people are the least mobile

No criticism. Just thinking out loud.

Those are all good points, and for the record I welcome criticism. I'll try to address your concerns here:
1. If Union becomes the main station again, there will be a direct link. If not, a merging of the Brockville and Hawkesbury Lines will make the link more direct.
2. Given the uncertain future of the current bus station, I tried not to tie any one station too closely too it.
3. I think that would certainly be a future possibility. I ended the line at Lorrain because I based the plan on current conditions described in civic documents. My specific source for that route is the Gatineau Rapibus plan.
4. Also a possibility given regional and light metro trains would have same track gauge.
5. I'd estimate the connection would already be pretty fast (20-25 minutes??). I tried not to privilege certain areas over others.
6. Melrose could certainly be moved further west.
7. I based that route on the City of Ottawa plans for the Hospital Link. I think their plans call for a station just north or northeast of CHEO but one option calls for bringing the route under the overpasses that connect the buildings and putting the station between CHEO and the General. So that could certainly be a possibility.

The one thing that would need some additional work on implementation is the potential for bottlenecks going through the Bayview-Hurdman section at rush hour. Assuming frequencies on each line similar to the Canada Line (every 6 minutes), that means a train would need to enter and exit the section at least every two minutes -which is the minimum allowable interval on a manually-operated system and would not allow room for error. For just 3 lines, this is manageable. However, this would also include the regional rail lines, which would end at Bayview if entering from Hurdman or Hurdman if entering from Bayview. The most likely, but a very costly solution would be to keep the Red Line in its own tunnel.

[c_speed3108]

I would change around the east end of the Green line to terminate up at the police collage/RCMP stables rather than the Museum.

The portion of St Laurent north of Hemlock Rd is where most of the transit business is in that neighbourhood.

[blackjagger]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

I would change around the east end of the Green line to terminate up at the police collage/RCMP stables rather than the Museum.

The portion of St Laurent north of Hemlock Rd is where most of the transit business is in that neighbourhood.

Really? Why? Having all the National Museums on transit would be great, both for tourist and for the individual Museums themselves. I think for alignment having a larger arc to the Museum to include a stop further up St. Laurent then at Hemlock Rd, perhaps near Glasgow St might help generate more ridership, but the cost/benefit would be hard to justify as a local bus connection to the Hemlock Station would be more effective.

Cheers,
Josh

[adam-machiavelli]

The map might not show this properly but that portion of the Green Line would run north along St. Laurent from St. Laurent North to Hemlock, and then parallel London Terrace under the Rockcliffe Parkway to Aviation.

[DubberDom]

Where do you get the rail line to Orleans/Cumberland/Rockland and beyond??? No such rail exists anymore

[adam-machiavelli]

I tried to follow the old corridor but you are indeed right that it doesn't exist anymore. The regional rail network is a bit more conceptual than the rest of the network.

[KHOOLE]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

Those are all good points, and for the record I welcome criticism. I'll try to address your concerns here:
1. If Union becomes the main station again, there will be a direct link. If not, a merging of the Brockville and Hawkesbury Lines will make the link more direct.
2. Given the uncertain future of the current bus station, I tried not to tie any one station too closely too it.
3. I think that would certainly be a future possibility. I ended the line at Lorrain because I based the plan on current conditions described in civic documents. My specific source for that route is the Gatineau Rapibus plan.
4. Also a possibility given regional and light metro trains would have same track gauge.
5. I'd estimate the connection would already be pretty fast (20-25 minutes??). I tried not to privilege certain areas over others.
6. Melrose could certainly be moved further west.
7. I based that route on the City of Ottawa plans for the Hospital Link. I think their plans call for a station just north or northeast of CHEO but one option calls for bringing the route under the overpasses that connect the buildings and putting the station between CHEO and the General. So that could certainly be a possibility.

The one thing that would need some additional work on implementation is the potential for bottlenecks going through the Bayview-Hurdman section at rush hour. Assuming frequencies on each line similar to the Canada Line (every 6 minutes), that means a train would need to enter and exit the section at least every two minutes -which is the minimum allowable interval on a manually-operated system and would not allow room for error. For just 3 lines, this is manageable. However, this would also include the regional rail lines, which would end at Bayview if entering from Hurdman or Hurdman if entering from Bayview. The most likely, but a very costly solution would be to keep the Red Line in its own tunnel.

1. Not too sure what you are saying. I am referring to travelers coming from all over eastern and northern Ontario using the train to get to the International Ottawa Airport and vice-versa (no more or very few buses). The concern has to do with reducing car traveling, costly car parking, meals and lodging.
2. The bus station, as suggested by Larry O’Brien, could be part of the train station complex, as it is often seen in Europe (think Barcelona).
3. Rapibus is concerned with transportation between Gatineau suburbs and to Gatineau downtown federal government offices. What about transportation back and forth from Northern Quebec. Newfoundland and Eastern Canada without having to transfer in Montreal? (Think 20 years from now).
4. City of Ottawa owns the POW Bridge. A prime linkage from the Rapibus to Bayview yards and Transitway transfers.
5. Financially and tourist-wise (think $$$), the Congress Centre has to be considered a privileged and rapid airport-downtown route (although the zillion taxis monopolizing the Col.By Driveway would disagree)
6. Ottawa Civic is on top of a hill (Gloucester Fault) and lots of buildings spread around. An underground station is indicated.
7. Ottawa General is a campus which involves CHEO, the Rehab, U of O Faculty of Medicine, Ottawa General and the Perley Rideau Veterans Health Centre. Moreover, it involves a dense developed area where the Tri-Service Hospital used to be plus many schools and a mature built-up area from Alta Vista to St.Laurent/Russel Rd. It should be a natural south of the train station and the train yards shopping centre.

No arguments. Just responding and still thinking out loud.

[KHOOLE]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

I tried to follow the old corridor but you are indeed right that it doesn't exist anymore. The regional rail network is a bit more conceptual than the rest of the network.

You can follow the 174 to Orleans then stay on the high grounds following the old Montreal Road to Rockland. In fact, you could cross over to Quebec near Cumberland where the power lines are and make a loop with the old CPR lines which leads back to the RAPIBUS-Lorrain line (which is built on the old CPR line that goes back to the O-train in Ontario.)

[eternallyme]

Here is my dream transit plan. Nothing really revolutionary, except that I combine commuter rail and regular rail by using dual-mode vehicles to serve outlying areas during rush hour. If ridership and development warrants, those lines could be converted later.

I recommend using Light Metro technology in this plan. A shorter tunnel is recommended to reduce costs downtown, with an elevated viaduct from Campus to Mackenzie King and a surface alignment over the Mackenzie King Bridge and Campus and Lees Stations.

[DEWLine]

Originally Posted by blackjagger

Really? Why? Having all the National Museums on transit would be great, both for tourist and for the individual Museums themselves. I think for alignment having a larger arc to the Museum to include a stop further up St. Laurent then at Hemlock Rd, perhaps near Glasgow St might help generate more ridership, but the cost/benefit would be hard to justify as a local bus connection to the Hemlock Station would be more effective.

There ought to be a way to accomodate funnelling new traffic to+from the museums...and I believe the Musical Ride has something not unlike a museum open to the public on their premises...?

Hmmm.