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Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > SSP: Local Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure

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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2010, 2:32 AM
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Fraser River boat graveyard is paradise for movie productions, horror show for locals

link >>

http://www.vancouversun.com/Fraser+R...764/story.html
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2010, 3:39 AM
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Originally Posted by lmtengs View Post
Actually, the Spirit class are the largest right now.


Love those boats. I don't understand for the life of me why they couldn't build 2-3 more of those for the Naniamo-Vancouver runs, instead of buying German.
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2010, 4:18 AM
allan_kuan allan_kuan is offline
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I used to agree with that sentiment... we've used to build so many of our ferry boats, so why give money and jobs to other places so they can build boats for us?

However, if you pass by the North Van waterfront, the answer becomes painfully clear... the former shipyards that used to build the mightiest ferries in the fleet are all gone. I guess many of them went under in the 1980s and 1990s, with their sites now occupied by new apartments. Only a few companies (like Vancouver Drydock) exist and they are generally specialized in repairing ships and building smaller craft... not the larger ships of yesterday. A similar state of affairs is also present in the Victoria Shipyards.

One only has to look at the Island Sky (built 2008) to see the problems with building locally nowadays. It wasn't a big ship by any standards but it still ran over budget (fortunately covered by the contractors) and had numerous issues that delayed its delivery (link) and entry into service. Compare that to the contract for the four newest large ships in the fleet. All were built on time and on budget with few issues whatsoever.

Unless there is a strong interest by British Columbians and the government to re-establish the ship-building industry here with a skilled technical workforce that focuses on quality and workmanship while sticking to deadlines, foreign purchases are generally the way to go in the future for most ships of BC Ferries. It sounds sad, but times and situations have changed... and we can't always stick with the old mentality.

PS: Rumour has it from West Coast Ferries Forum (link) right now that BC Ferries might buy some fresh new smaller ferries from Europe from shipping lines that have hit hard times over there while construction was underway.
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  #24  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2010, 4:45 AM
cornholio cornholio is offline
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Well the MP for the riding is Randy Kemp who not only is part of the conservative party but just so happens to be the Parliamentary secretary to the minister of of fisheries and oceans and is currently a member on the standing committee of fisheries and oceans. Before the conservatives came to power he was the Official opposition critic for fisheries and oceans on the pacific coast. If there is someone who can fix this mess its him, and it just so happens that its his constituency.

Now the conservatives have put forth funding for the Pacific Maritime museum in North Vancouver, I have no idea whats happening but at least two of these ships look like priceless opportunities to add to the collection of the museum. Randy Kemp should use his position to directly try to negotiate a deal for the conservative government to buy some of these ships and clean the area up. The cost would be small compared to the museum and the owners are in it for the money so a fair deal shouldn't be too difficult to achieve. Now to fix up the Sidney and especially the San Mateo wouldent be cheap and easy but I doubt it would be too much in terms of the funding for the museum and their addition to it would be priceless. The San Mateo looks like it would need to be literally disassemble and what can be reused salvaged and the rest rebuilt.

Im not sure how exactly they would be attached to the museum but im under the assumption that dock space on the waterfront is available so they can be permanently anchored next to the museum and become part of. Maybe some other uses of the boats could also be incorporated such as museum exhibits, a hotel mid range or budget, maybe a restaurant, or just nothing and the entire boat restored and open for museum visitors in the future.

In any case the ships will be destroyed eventually and lost for ever, they have a strong importance to the Pacific maritime history and there isnt many similar opportunities, partly thanks to these pack rats and their inability to quickly and efficiently scrap and sell of the boats, which was their plan.

Not to mention that the Conservative government can score some brownie points maybe without even increasing the budget for the Maritime museum and just tweeking the numbers. Randy Kemp can on top of it further his career in party and improve his image in the community as he would be a bit of a hero, twice.

Not to mention that the last election was actually very close between the conservatives and the NDP in the riding so the need to improve the parties image and Kemps image is there if they want to make sure they hold on to the riding.


Just an idea.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2012, 4:25 AM
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Due to floodwaters on the Fraser the province has seized control of the Queen of Sidney and six other derelict vessels to prevent them breaking free of their moorings:
http://www.missioncityrecord.com/news/160478545.html
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  #26  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2012, 5:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Due to floodwaters on the Fraser the province has seized control of the Queen of Sidney and six other derelict vessels to prevent them breaking free of their moorings:
http://www.missioncityrecord.com/news/160478545.html
Thanks for the update. I assume they would try to re-secure the moorings without actually attempting to move the boats (which could be a significant risk based on their condition).
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  #27  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2012, 6:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Mind View Post
Love those boats. I don't understand for the life of me why they couldn't build 2-3 more of those for the Naniamo-Vancouver runs, instead of buying German.
IIRC, Shipbuilding is heavily subsidized by govts (low interest loans, etc) and the campbell administration would not account for a subsidy in the bc quote (IIRC, the washington group made a quote based on the hull being made in china and the other work being completed in its yards, but stil wound up losing out).

Controversial, i can see a lot of the cons, but lot of pros with the decision.

can't find a source for washington marine's bid (it was rejected in early rounds,) but a few links:

BC Ferries awarded the German shipyard, Flensburger Schiffbau ? Gesellschaft, the $325 million contract to build three Super C-Class ferries. A spokesman for BC Ferries said that the contract is $130 million less that the Canadian price they received early in the bidding process.

"The excellent contract terms achieved with the Super C-class vessels serve as a benchmark
for all future shipbuilding contracts, whether for construction with yards in Canada or abroad."


Wikipedia also has a nice blurb.

Last edited by mezzanine; Jun 27, 2012 at 7:15 AM.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2012, 7:43 AM
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This is from a report at the beginning of the campbell administration in the wake of the fast ferries. we can build large spirit-class vessels (b/c we did), but work had to be split amongst different shipyards in bc. No one company could assume the risk (and i assume, provide a fixed-price contract) and BC ferries applied that role.

You can make the argument that we need to subsidize bc shipbuilding, but you would need to justify it clearly and not roll it into the BC ferries mandate of providing cost-effective, customer-responsive and reliable ferry service.

Quote:
BC Ferries is entangled in a web of formal and informal accountability to various government agencies, ministry personnel and politicians that it is powerless to change. Its enabling legislation provides that the Province, not BC Ferries’ board, make all significant decisions. As a result the Province’s policy imperatives can, at times, conflict with BC Ferries’ primary goal of serving its customers.
....
(v) BC Shipbuilders versus International Shipbuilders

To date, all of BC Ferries’ new vessels have been built in British Columbia. BC Ferries hired KMM to examine three standard vessels (Century Class, C-Class and Spirit Class) and to estimate the cost of building them in the USA, South America, Europe and Korea. KMM concluded that there is a 30% cost advantage (after paying the 25% federal import duty) to purchase a vessel built at a Korean yard, the least expensive option, over a BC yard, the most expensive option. The major differences in the cost are attributable to wage
differentials and higher productivity. Over the 15-year plan this difference is estimated at $350 million.

(vi) Capacity of the BC Shipbuilding Industry

Several BC shipyards have the capacity to build Century Class vessels but, of financial necessity, can only perform this service on a cost plus basis. Only one shipyard in BC is capable of posting the bonds in excess of $100 million that would be required to insure both the design and construction risk for a major vessel. BC shipyards could, however, form a consortium to build the larger vessels, as has been done successfully in the past.

During the last two major vessel construction programs (the two Spirit class vessels and the three PacifiCats), BC Ferries had to assume the design and construction risk because BC shipbuilders would or could not.
....
When the Spirit class vessels were tendered, the best bid (lowest price, 100% of the design and construction risk borne by the shipbuilder) came from a Louisiana based shipbuilder. However, the Province intervened in favour of BC shipyards

....

Given that its fleet renewal is of such critical importance and that BC Ferries forecasts that they will spend up to $1.1 billion in this regard over the next 15 years, it is vital that BC Ferries have the ability to effectively
manage this cost. We recommend that BC Ferries be given clear authority to purchase standard vessels with a proven operating history in BC waters from the lowest cost provider that can accept 100% of the design and construction risk.

We expect that BC shipbuilders would, individually or as a consortium, bid competitively on each vessel to be built. If they require financial subsidies to compete, they should be clear and visible, not delivered through the subterfuge of BC Ferries being compelled to purchase vessels at higher prices and risk.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2012, 3:27 AM
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There is worry that the ships will break there moorings. It was in the New West paper.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2012, 11:00 AM
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News Hour -
Dangerous derelict boats in Mission
Wed, Jun 27 - There are concerns that a number of derelict vessels moored near Mission could be dangerous if the Fraser River rises.


http://www.globaltvbc.com/video/dang...p=1&s=dd#video
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 3:15 AM
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about what I expected.

Oil leaks found at derelict shipyard near Mission

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/oil-leaks-found...ssion-1.861267
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 5:22 AM
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they filmed a couple episodes of the secret circle there/on them, i was wondering where they were at
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