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  #2561  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2011, 10:55 PM
malumot malumot is offline
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Nice pics.

Dunno where the captions are from, but....."heroine"? "warriors"? Really, now.

Wasn't the first time a lousy neighborhood is seized by eminent domain, and won't be the last. As to the freeways - only partially true. The San Diego, and much of the Santa Monica and Harbor freeways were built through plenty of middle-class neighborhoods. Doesn't make it any less right, or wrong. It just is. (If you want to build a megalopolis you have to crack a few eggs).

BTW - Those officers are County, not LAPD. No idea why. Were the proceedings conducted in County courts, and therefore the serving of papers and such had to be done by Sheriff's Office? Maybe some legal beagle knows.

Ohhhh.....You know how you can tell the difference? See that insignia on their sleeve in some of the photos? It says "COUNTY"
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  #2562  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2011, 11:17 PM
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Very interesting essay on Chavez Ravine Sebisebster.
The expulsion of the Mexican-American families from their homes in Chavez Ravine was a shameful act.

Malumot, I agree that eminent domain has to be used from time to time in a growing metropolis.
That said, I am sure the families living in the ravine didn't think of their enclave as a "lousy neighborhood".
To them Chavez Ravine was their heart and soul......calling it a "lousy neighborhood" is quite an insult.



You have a good eye gsgansen in noticing "Puritas Water". I completely missed that on the Westminster Menu.
Your research into Puritas Water, after seeing it on the 1901 menu, is what makes this thread so special.

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Jan 21, 2011 at 1:27 AM.
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  #2563  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2011, 1:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebisebster View Post
Sopas ej: You said it right: moltíssimes gràcies per la teva benvinguda (in catalan) or muchisimas gracias por tu bienvenida (now in spanish), which it means: thank you so much for your welcome.

I really don't know why I feel this fascination and attraction for L.A. I guess it could have been any other city from all over the world... On tv they show us that L.A. is the perfect city where anything can happen, just as it was the perfect set to shot a movie, where everything seems to be a fake.
But no way.
What we see on tv or in the movies is the real fake, not the real L.A.
Yes, I have been in L.A. in 2006 and 2008 as a tourist. My first time in America, and guessing not to be the last time. Walking around Downtown (yes, first time the tour was by car, then for next time I wanted and I needed to walk) I started to feel all these things we are talking about on this thread. I felt the vibrations of a vanished past on Broadway, and all those art-decó buildings made me think that in the past, that part of the city was alive, plenty and full of life. Not to mention Bunker Hill: as a foreigner, those towers could have seen fascinating but my imagination was asking me for a major question: what was there before the towers were built. When I got home, to Spain, I started to search on the net old pics or vintage pics of L.A. like these ones:



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Once I found out what was behind of such pics like all shown above, I thought to my self: what has happened there? How is it possible that in just one man life, landscape has changed so much and why did it happen?
And so simple, I felt in love with Downtown. I like history and I wanted to know as much as I could, from L.A. history but especially Downtown. Here's the explanation.
Apologizes for my grammar or spelling mistakes.
I see your point of view. I would imagine since you are from Europe, that it seems very crazy that in the US, many cities have torn down whole sections and neighborhoods for "redevelopment," essentially erasing their history. I imagine that many of the cities in Europe have essentially stayed the same for a long time, well, in the sense that many buildings were allowed to remain over many centuries, while of course new buildings are also built. It seems to me that in Europe, buildings don't really get destroyed unless of course because of a man-made (example, war or explosion) or natural disaster; please do correct me if I'm wrong. Well, I guess of course in the case of Paris, a lot was destroyed in the 19th Century to create those wide avenues and boulevards, but maybe Paris is an exception? I wouldn't imagine many Spanish cities to have destroyed much over time? I love Spain, BTW; such a beautiful country.

And BTW great post on Chavez Ravine. I really enjoyed it.
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  #2564  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2011, 3:03 PM
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Sebisebster, great images of chinatown and a truly amazing and informative post about chavez ravine!

the following then (1891) and later (1936) montage are identical in their views taken from the exact same spot on the roof of the brunswig building 45 years apart.



if you look closely through the trees of the plaza, you can see the lugo house. in the distance, the eastern portion of chinatown has already been graded for the track depot for union station

in the 1891 image, the east/west street to the left of the lugo house is marchessault street, the next east/west street over to the left from there is apablasa street. notice how marchessault street terminates at jean street and apablasa street continues further to the east.
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  #2565  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2011, 4:20 PM
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^^^Thanks for explaining the 1896 image. I can never keep marchessault and apablasa straight.





below: The plaza from the southeast corner showing the Pico House on the left, ca. 1888.



usc digital archive


So, is that Court Hill or Bunker Hill in the background?




below: This is the same church that appears to the right in the above photograph.


usc digital archive



below: Here is a straight on view of the Plaza Church.


digital archive


I believe that is Fort Moore Hill in the background. Is that correct?

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Jan 21, 2011 at 4:32 PM.
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  #2566  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2011, 4:37 PM
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High School building atop Fort Moore Hill taken from the Nadeau Hotel on 1st & Hill Street, ca. 1883.



usc digital archive





below: Leveling Fort Moore Hill in 1949. This view looks northwest from Spring Street.


usc digital archive
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  #2567  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2011, 4:50 PM
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I just found this photo in the archive. I don't remember seeing it before.
(actually, several of the photos I just posted above I believe are new to the archive)


USC caption: "A view of Fort Moore Hill looking northeast from 1st & Hill Street, ca. 1875"


usc digital archive

This is a great photo. Beside showing Los Angeles High School atop the hill, you can clearly see the cupola of the original City Hall.

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Jan 21, 2011 at 7:13 PM.
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  #2568  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2011, 5:59 PM
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the old school building images are actually poundcake hill. that's the tounge of bunker hill that juts west from court street. when they moved the school up on top of fort hill for the new courthouse, poundcake hill got graded, which resulted in the steep incline where they built court flight.

an 1880 image looking west from spring street temple block towards the high school building on poundcake hill


Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-10235?v=hr

1881 image looking south on broadway from temple. note the gradual slope on the right where court flight will one day be built.


Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-7045?v=hr

compare the slope of court flight in this photo.......it's become a cliff! you can see the wall for the stairs leading down from hill street in both photos for a nice comparison




1888 moving day for the school, (note trolley running underneath


Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-7116?v=hr

graded west elevation of poundcake hill for courthouse


Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...T-BUI-751?v=hr

there was still a bit of a grade on the east side of poundcake hill, but nothing like when the school was there


Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-41446?v=hr

notice how steep court flight was due to the grading of west side of poundcake hill for the courthouse


Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-31279?v=hr

Last edited by gsjansen; Jan 21, 2011 at 6:49 PM.
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  #2569  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2011, 7:14 PM
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It pays to be offline for a few days-- on returning I'm greeted with pages and pages of great material. As for Chavez Ravine, I'm reminded of a book I've mentioned here before, but worth doing so again: Whitewashed Adobe by William Deverell, subtitled "The Rise of Los Angeles and the Remaking of its Mexican Past."
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  #2570  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2011, 7:17 PM
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I had forgotten all about poundcake hill.
Thanks for the explanation gsjansen.
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  #2571  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2011, 6:01 AM
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A then and now of sorts.

La Placita Church adjacent to the old Plaza, circa 1920s.

USC Archive

I took this picture on Christmas Eve, 2010, around 10pm-ish. People were actually walking around the Plaza, admiring the manger scene that gets set up every year around Christmastime in the Plaza (which I wouldn't think would be allowed, being that I assume it's public property). I could hear music coming from the church, I assume they were getting ready for midnight Mass.

Photo by me

Christmas Eve 2010 shot of City Hall as seen from the old Plaza. Of course the Federal Courthouse, Pico House and Brunswig Building are in the shot too.

Photo by me
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  #2572  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2011, 3:05 PM
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^^^That last photograph is a beauty sopas_ej.
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  #2573  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2011, 6:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
^^^That last photograph is a beauty sopas_ej.
I agree; very lovely. It's seeing scenes like this that make me deeply regret that I live 700 miles from L.A. I would LOVE to be able to spend a fine winter night walking around downtown like that. Hopefully I can visit the city again this coming summer. I'm feeling quite homesick for the place at the moment...

-Scott
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  #2574  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2011, 6:23 PM
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usc digital archive

This photo with the steps leading up to the school reminded me of a charming letter I had in my files.










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  #2575  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2011, 8:06 PM
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E_R.....that very well may be the most amazing thing posted on the this site.....a true life diary of life in 1800's los angeles.....wow, thank you so much for having, and posting this letter!

this is an incredible document
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  #2576  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2011, 1:57 AM
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Originally Posted by malumot View Post
Were the proceedings conducted in County courts, and therefore the serving of papers and such had to be done by Sheriff's Office?
Evictions are always handled by the county sheriff.
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  #2577  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2011, 3:18 AM
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i love these before and after...and then REALLY before...shots of the area around wilshire and san vicente, where i grew up. along the bottom is the beverly hills municipal water works, which in the 1978 shot has been converted to tennis courts (although the original structure of the water processing plant, looking sort of like a spanish church, still stands). the baseball fields are la cienega park. the long whitish rectangle in both pictures is the swimming pool, which no longer exists. also, the tennis courts along the top edge of la cienega park are gone now, replaced by more baseball fields. the white gleaming tower in the 1930 shot is indeed carthay circle theatre. i remember reading somewhere that the swimming pool and la cienega park itself was originally built as part of the training facilities for the 1932 Los Angeles olympics, but i had never seen a picture with what looks like an actual track and field facility there. in the earlier shot from 1926, i can actually see the spot on which the house i grew up in would later be built (maryland drive, which is the 4th street north of wilshire). it's funny to see how even then, i guess from their very creation, lindenhurst, 6th street, and orange street (the 3 streets immediately north of wilshire to the east of san vicente) had those funny little jogs to the southwest before meeting up with san vicente. as i've looked through the wonderful pictures on this thread, i kept wondering...would any shots of my neighborhood pop up? here they are...thanks!!!!
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  #2578  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2011, 3:54 PM
tyzz1959 tyzz1959 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsjansen View Post
a then (1930) and later (1978) aerial looking east on wilshire boulevard across san vicente boulevard.


Sources: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/search...=1294669760167 and http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/search...=1294669803547
i love these before and after...and then REALLY before...shots of the area around wilshire and san vicente, where i grew up. along the bottom is the beverly hills municipal water works, which in the 1978 shot has been converted to tennis courts (although the original structure of the water processing plant, looking sort of like a spanish church, still stands). the baseball fields are la cienega park. the long whitish rectangle in both pictures is the swimming pool, which no longer exists. also, the tennis courts along the top edge of la cienega park are gone now, replaced by more baseball fields. the white gleaming tower in the 1930 shot is indeed carthay circle theatre. i remember reading somewhere that the swimming pool and la cienega park itself was originally built as part of the training facilities for the 1932 Los Angeles olympics, but i had never seen a picture with what looks like an actual track and field facility there. in the earlier shot from 1926, i can actually see the spot on which the house i grew up in would later be built (maryland drive, which is the 4th street north of wilshire). it's funny to see how even then, i guess from their very creation, lindenhurst, 6th street, and orange street (the 3 streets immediately north of wilshire to the east of san vicente) had those funny little jogs to the southwest before meeting up with san vicente. as i've looked through the wonderful pictures on this thread, i kept wondering...would any shots of my neighborhood pop up? here they are...thanks!!!!
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  #2579  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2011, 4:03 PM
tyzz1959 tyzz1959 is offline
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Originally Posted by gsjansen View Post
Yes it is indeed the carthay circle theater. in the 1978 photo, it is the two squat right of center buildings. the theater was physucally located on the site of the squat building on the right

here's a 1922 image of the same intersection of san vicente and wilshire, (i think this photo may have been posted before)


Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...R-VIE-004?v=hr

in this 1923 aerial of the intersection, you can see that McCarthy vista has been laid out, as well as the site of the carthay circle theater


Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-11988?v=hr


by 1926, the area was beginning to fill in quite a bit. the carthay circle theater has been completed





Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-11990?v=hr

here's a really nice image looking north/west from the tower of the carthay circle theater in 1929


Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-7180?v=hr
the 1926 view is the picture i was referring to ...to the northeast of the intersection of wilshire and san vicente, i can see orange street, 6th street, lindenhurst, and maryland drive, a few houses here and there. i wish i could zoom in to get details on which of those early houses, if any, survived until i was living there in the 1960s and 1970s...interesting that the beverly hills water works isn't there yet, but i can still make out gregory way (the short east-west street between wilshire and olympic). and north of farifax, the dark square is the la brea tar pits, and nothing but oil derricks where the parklabrea development will later be. gives me goosebumps...

Last edited by tyzz1959; Jan 23, 2011 at 4:32 PM.
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  #2580  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2011, 4:40 PM
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Another crime story and important chapter in Los Angeles history.
(Not many building references, but there have been other crime posts in this thread, so figured I'd post it since I went through the trouble of compiling it.)







1942 - The Sleepy Lagoon Murder



Sleepy Lagoon was a reservoir by the Los Angeles River. Frequented by Mexican Americans who were denied access to public pools, the swimming hole was named after a popular song of the time performed by big band leader and trumpet player Harry James.

I cannot for the life of me find any photos of the reservoir nicknamed "Sleepy Lagoon", but apparently it was near the community of Maywood, near the intersection of Slauson Boulevard and Atlantic Blvd. Nothing remains of the reservoir now.

The proceedings of this case (People v. Zammora) took place within the context of war-time anxiety and hysteria, when one hundred twenty thousand Japanese-Americans were detained and put into internment camps in February 1942. Several months later, a young Mexican national named José Diaz was found dead at a swimming hole called Sleepy Lagoon.

Local media outlets, most notably the Hearst-owned Herald-Express and The Los Angeles Times, blamed Diaz’s death on a “crime wave” led by Mexican American “zoot-suiters” or “pachucos”. Many young Latino males distinguished themselves with "duck tails" hairdoos and "zoot suits" (wide-brimmed hats, broad-shouldered long coats, high-waisted peg-legged trousers and long dangling chains). More than six hundred youth (most of them Mexican American) were arrested after Diaz’s death. Many were detained for the clothes that they wore or their general appearance. Some claimed that such “racial profiling” was necessary for national security because they believed Mexican American “zoot-suiters” had established “fifth column” (pro-fascist) groups within the United States. Twenty-two youths were eventually subject to a mass trial, complete with an all-white jury. Three were convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison; nine were convicted of second-degree murder and sentenced to five-to-life; and five were convicted of assault and released for time served.


Convicted Sleepy Lagoon defendants.
http://www.chicano.ucla.edu/center/e...eepylagcol.htm



Sleepy Lagoon defendants in San Quentin
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.ph...51&start=15050





1943 - Zoot Suit Riots


The war had caused Los Angeles to swell with military personnel at local bases, many of them from other parts of the country with no prior experience with Latinos and Latino culture. News of the Sleepy Lagoon convictions heated racial tensions for months until finally Los Angeles erupted in the Zoot Suit Riot.

On June 3, 1943, a number of sailors claimed to have been beaten and robbed by Mexican pachucos. The following evening, a mob of about 200 sailors, tired of boredom and fired up with bigotry, hired a fleet of cabs and rolled into East Los Angeles to beat up and strip the clothing off any young Latino male they could find. The authorities seemed to approve. Police made a few initial token arrests of sailors, but they were quickly released. This emboldened the sailors. For several subsequent nights, the swelling mobs of sailors were joined by soldiers and some civilians as they invaded the barrio, marching abreast down streets, invading bars and movie houses, assaulting and humiliating any and all young Latino males, many not attired in "zoot suits." Young Black and Filipino males unfortunate enough to be in the area were also assaulted. Mobs of servicemen in search of "zoot suiters" also prowled the Pike in Long Beach. Although police accompanied the caravans of rioting servicemen, police orders were to let the shore patrol and military police deal with military men. As the riot progressed, Mexican American boys moved to defend their neighborhoods, setting traps for sailors and assaulting them in their cars.

After several days of rioting and assaults by servicemen, more than 150 had been injured and police had arrested and charged more than 500 Latino youths for "rioting" or "vagrancy," many themselves the victims. The local press lauded the military rioters for confronting the menace of the "Mexican crime wave." "Zoot Suiters Learn Lesson in Fight with Servicemen," declared the Los Angeles Times. The Los Angeles City Council issued an ordinance banning the wearing of "zoot suits." "The zoot suit has become a badge of hoodlumism," explained Councilman Norris Nelson. "We prohibit nudism by an ordinance and if we can arrest people for being under-dressed, we can do so for being over-dressed." Some sources suggest this ordinance is still on the books, but I could not find it in the city code.

Finally, on June 7, military authorities did what civil authorities would not. Navy and Army commanders sought to get control of their men by ordering that the City of Los Angeles be declared off-limits to military personnel. Nonetheless, the official Navy position was that their sailors were acting in "self-defense against the rowdy element."

Nationwide condemnation of the actions of the military rioters and civil authorities followed. First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt commented, "The question goes deeper than just suits. It is a racial protest. I have been worried for a long time about the Mexican racial situation. It is a problem with roots going a long way back, and we do not always face these problems as we should." The Los Angeles Times responded with a June 18 headline, "Mrs. Roosevelt Blindly Stirs Race Discord." The editorial page accused her of communist leanings.

http://www.laalmanac.com/history/hi07t.htm





Riot in front of the Hippodrome theater on Main Street.
http://sites.google.com/site/downtow...treet-theatres



Zoot Suit Riot.
http://carlesvinyas.wordpress.com/20...uit-riots-iii/



Zoot Suit Riot.
http://www.myspace.com/tirilon/blog/218313370



Zoot Suit Riot.
http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/hb658007d7/



Pachucos beaten and stripped during zoot-suit riots.
http://www.getwellkathleen.us/LIFE/u...t/zootsuit.htm



Luis Verdusco, riot victim.
http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/hb529006px/



Mexican American youths detained for questioning
http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/hb7c60081n/


(Click for larger image.)
Alleged "Zoot Suit rioters" leave a Los Angeles jail for a court appearance, 1943. (Click for larger image.)
http://www.cosmeo.com/viewPicture.cf...099D&&nodeid=#




1944 Sleepy Lagoon Murder Case Acquittal


In October, 1941 a dark chapter in Los Angeles history came to a close when, as a result of the tireless efforts of the Sleepy Lagoon Defense Committee, the U.S. District Court of Appeals overturned the convictions as a miscarriage of justice. A precursor to the Zoot Suit Riots of 1943, the Sleepy Lagoon case is one of the most important events in the social history of Los Angeles but, even today, it is difficult to find complete and accurate information regarding the people and places involved in this historic case.
http://www.sleepylagoon.com/H/sltrial.htm


(click for larger image)
Sleepy Lagoon murder case acquittal.
http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/hb6199p0h3/
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