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Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > SSP: Local Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth

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  #2961  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 2:03 AM
wespidel wespidel is offline
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Thanks Femwick for the enlarged URL upload Nussli modular fixed bowl images

Just got in and I was about to post from my web browser the same enlarged images, thanks again, we can always reply on our stadium site expert! He deserves the compliment! I wanted to get these up before the stadium meeting tomorrow night, thanks again Fenwick!
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  #2962  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 2:29 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by wespidel View Post
Just got in and I was about to post from my web browser the same enlarged images, thanks again, we can always reply on our stadium site expert! He deserves the compliment! I wanted to get these up before the stadium meeting tomorrow night, thanks again Fenwick!
You're welcome. These are your links though that you posted, I just fixed the IMG html code format.
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  #2963  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 2:33 AM
wespidel wespidel is offline
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To answer Fenwick questions on the Nussli fixed bowl stadium

Nussli told me that the fixed bowl modular which they call permanent for a price around 65 million cannot not be expanded because of the permanent fixed roof and apparently it can withstand our winters but they have other roof material as well designs that they offer as well. Yes Fenwick is also right and quite clever that he picked that up, that the concession stands and washrooms are centralized on one side of the modular bowl stadium and their are only skyboxes on one side as well.

This is why I requested and helped Nussli design a modular type two tier CFL model stadium, 25,000 seats with open endzones and with skyboxes and VIP lounges and a restaurant with club houses and washrooms and concession stands on both sides of the stadium. They actually gathered my info and concept and designed a Nussli CFL model featured stadium that I asked for. The only permanent stadium they offered until than was the modular bowl fixed stadium that Fenwick and I have illustrated. I didn`t receive the two tier CFL model designed stadium images that they did complete because I was reluctant to sign off on a confidentiality agreemnet that they wanted me to sign because of copy right and because I played a big part in helping them with the final product and they wanted to claim the finaL product has theirs totally to protect themselves. But they do have this product now available and a design that is a CFL model that I provided them, that probably would come in around 80 to 85 million. They actually may have since offered the city of Halifaxl this new product design. I would think since they tried to sell the first permanent Nussli modular fixed 27,500 seat bowl stadium that I`m sure they have presented my requested CFL two tier model that I help them design which ended up being their final finished newly designed CFL two tier model stadium.
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  #2964  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 2:48 AM
wespidel wespidel is offline
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I respect all your Nussli stadium opinions and Fenwick is right it`s not bad but...

Scott Mitchell, CEO of the Tigercats was presented the same Nussli modular fixed bowl product that Nussli calls permanent and Mr. Mitchell said that he looked at many different stadium designs in North American and that the Nussli`s modular bowl fixed stadium product was not up to his standards and he wouldn`t touch it and either are Ottawa or Winnipeg. Scott said on local radio that it is not of the quality they need in a stadium in Canada and it`s the wrong concept being a fixed bowl when they need a two tier stadium with all the amenities on both side of the stadium and with open endzones where they can double their capacity to host a Grey Cup game, Ottawa are also going with the same Hamilton CFL model concept in their new stadium, roughly like the gentleman posted, 25,000 peramnent seats, price around 145 million, Hamilton`s may be slightly under, around 130 million.
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  #2965  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 3:12 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by wespidel View Post
Nussli told me that the fixed bowl modular which they call permanent for a price around 65 million cannot not be expanded because of the permanent fixed roof and apparently it can withstand our winters but they have other roof material as well designs that they offer as well. Yes Fenwick is also right and quite clever that he picked that up, that the concession stands and washrooms are centralized on one side of the modular bowl stadium and their are only skyboxes on one side as well.

This is why I requested and helped Nussli design a modular type two tier CFL model stadium, 25,000 seats with open endzones and with skyboxes and VIP lounges and a restaurant with club houses and washrooms and concession stands on both sides of the stadium. They actually gathered my info and concept and designed a Nussli CFL model featured stadium that I asked for. The only permanent stadium they offered until than was the modular bowl fixed stadium that Fenwick and I have illustrated. I didn`t receive the two tier CFL model designed stadium images that they did complete because I was reluctant to sign off on a confidentiality agreemnet that they wanted me to sign because of copy right and because I played a big part in helping them with the final product and they wanted to claim the finaL product has theirs totally to protect themselves. But they do have this product now available and a design that is a CFL model that I provided them, that probably would come in around 80 to 85 million. They actually may have since offered the city of Halifaxl this new product design. I would think since they tried to sell the first permanent Nussli modular fixed 27,500 seat bowl stadium that I`m sure they have presented my requested CFL two tier model that I help them design which ended up being their final finished newly designed CFL two tier model stadium.
Based on the cost of the Moncton Stadium these stadium costs are much too high and in my opinion, simply unnecessary. Although I think it would be great for Halifax to get a CFL team, I don't think that the HRM should spend an extraordinary amount for such a stadium. I have always been in favour of an economical stadium that can host a CFL team.

Two tier stadiums are very common, I don't think anyone can take credit for such a design. Instead of thinking of ways to increase the stadium cost and worrying about what Hamilton and other cities are spending, I think that Halifax should be thinking of economizing. So I am afraid that we don't really agree.

Personally, I am not sure why it is so important to build a Nussli type stadium, unless it is inexpensive. Once the cost gets up to $85 million then there is no longer any advantage to such a stadium. The concrete section of the Moncton stadium is much more solid and should last longer with less maintenance than a Nussli stadium. I think that the HRM should just ask the builder of the Moncton Stadium what they can propose for Halifax based on the specifications provided.

Last edited by fenwick16; Jun 6, 2011 at 9:08 AM.
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  #2966  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 11:36 AM
wespidel wespidel is offline
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I totally agree with you Fenwick!

Nussli only design it and farm it out to a fabricator to their specs and have it built with the material they use to build their modular fixed bowl stadium to improve their bottom line but it is like you said before, how much profit is evoled in this types of structures. A engineer and architect and construction company owner that I know believe it can be a much as 100 percent but more likely around 50 to 75 % especially when a larger company like PCL are involved because they build it and suppy the material. I agree with Fenwick that you can build a much bigger stadium similar to Moncton`s smaller concrete built side that has permanent washrooms and concession stands and press boxes but make to 3 times bigger on both sides of the field with open endzones which I personally prefer. I sat on that side last time at the CFL game and I`m on the 30 yard line, first row this time. That section is smaller but it`s pretty nice and well built and the seats are great, apparently my construction company friend in Moncton told me it was built my a Quebec company which I believe I gave to Fenwick. I believe Fenwick could design a perfect CFL 25,000 plus permanent seat stadium for around 75 million or slightly less with all the amenities and built solidly and hopefully with open endzones which I don`t believe he is against which will allow the stadium to host a Grey Cup.
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  #2967  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 12:34 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wespidel View Post
Nussli only design it and farm it out to a fabricator to their specs and have it built with the material they use to build their modular fixed bowl stadium to improve their bottom line but it is like you said before, how much profit is evoled in this types of structures. A engineer and architect and construction company owner that I know believe it can be a much as 100 percent but more likely around 50 to 75 % especially when a larger company like PCL are involved because they build it and suppy the material. I agree with Fenwick that you can build a much bigger stadium similar to Moncton`s smaller concrete built side that has permanent washrooms and concession stands and press boxes but make to 3 times bigger on both sides of the field with open endzones which I personally prefer. I sat on that side last time at the CFL game and I`m on the 30 yard line, first row this time. That section is smaller but it`s pretty nice and well built and the seats are great, apparently my construction company friend in Moncton told me it was built my a Quebec company which I believe I gave to Fenwick. I believe Fenwick could design a perfect CFL 25,000 plus permanent seat stadium for around 75 million or slightly less with all the amenities and built solidly and hopefully with open endzones which I don`t believe he is against which will allow the stadium to host a Grey Cup.
Thanks for the information. I can't really design a stadium though (I wish I could). I just do fairly basic conceptual 3D drawings to illustrate my thoughts (mainly because I can't draw by freehand). But when it comes to actually specifying column and beam dimensions, and working out the forces then it is something that I am not qualified to do. Luckily there are many people in the Maritimes who can.
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  #2968  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 12:57 PM
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Have your say on new Halifax stadium
Stadium has to be multi-purpose facility, several councillors and mayor say
Women’s World Cup of Soccer 2015 host announcement expected in early 2012


Mayor Peter Kelly wants residents to “bring their voice” to tonight’s open house.

Feedback wanted
Public open houses run from 6:30 to 8:30 p.m.
Tonight: Maritime Hall, Halifax Forum.
Wednesday: Cole Harbour Place.
Thursday: Lion’s Den, LeBrun Recreation Centre.

JENNIFER TAPLIN
METRO HALIFAX
Published: June 06, 2011 12:35 a.m.
Last modified: June 06, 2011 7:54 a.m.

For the first time, HRM residents will weigh in on a proposed outdoor stadium.

But Coun. Sue Uteck said she only expects to see special-interest groups during an open house tonight.

“Hopefully we’ve done enough PR so people know the meetings are happening, but it’s going to be vested interests that are going to be coming,” she said. “I won’t expect any new players on the scene.”

Feedback on the stadium differs community to community. People in Dartmouth would no doubt love to see a new stadium appear on the Shannon Park lands, but South-enders in Uteck’s riding aren’t so enthusiastic.

“You get a lot of, ‘We can’t afford a new stadium, fix up Saint Mary’s.’ So that’s the feedback I’m getting,” she said.

Council commissioned a business case for a new stadium because Halifax is in the running as a host city for the Women’s Under-20 World Cup in 2014 and the Women’s World Cup of Soccer in 2015. The business case report should be finished this summer.

“At the moment with all the things that we owe, I don’t think we’ll get into it unless we get a lot of private money,” said Coun. Jerry Blumenthal.

“There are a lot of people who want a stadium and there are a lot of naysayers who don’t want anything — a stadium, a convention centre or anything.”
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  #2969  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 1:31 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
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I am going tonight, and I also plan to write Uteck... clearly more of us in her district in need to write because the naysayers are obviously doing all the communicating to her.
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  #2970  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 1:54 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by q12 View Post
Have your say on new Halifax stadium
Stadium has to be multi-purpose facility, several councillors and mayor say
Women’s World Cup of Soccer 2015 host announcement expected in early 2012


Mayor Peter Kelly wants residents to “bring their voice” to tonight’s open house.

Feedback wanted
Public open houses run from 6:30 to 8:30 p.m.
Tonight: Maritime Hall, Halifax Forum.
Wednesday: Cole Harbour Place.
Thursday: Lion’s Den, LeBrun Recreation Centre.

JENNIFER TAPLIN
METRO HALIFAX
Published: June 06, 2011 12:35 a.m.
Last modified: June 06, 2011 7:54 a.m.

For the first time, HRM residents will weigh in on a proposed outdoor stadium.

But Coun. Sue Uteck said she only expects to see special-interest groups during an open house tonight.

“Hopefully we’ve done enough PR so people know the meetings are happening, but it’s going to be vested interests that are going to be coming,” she said. “I won’t expect any new players on the scene.”
Does Sue Uteck ever read the HRM polls that show that the majority favour a stadium? Apparently only her opinion matters.

I think anyone planning to attend the open house, and all who would like to attend but can't should feel insulted by such a comment. Apparently everyone attending has a vested interest - way to go Sue Utech, you just insulted many thousands of people in the HRM who support a stadium. Does it ever occur to her that other people really want good things for the municipality - apparently only she has any integrity!
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  #2971  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 2:13 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
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It will be interesting to see what happens in the next municipal election. In the past there were no serious challengers... likely because the polls were so heavily in favour of Kelly that people didn't want to waste their money running. There is now far more of a feeling that Kelly is vulnerable, and more and more people muttering about running. I think that Uteck is unlikely to be a serious challenger, but someone with the name recognition of either Mike Savage or Bill Black potentially could make a real go of it.
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  #2972  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 3:08 PM
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Sue Uteck is pulling a con job. She can't have her head so far in the sand that she doesn't know that the majority of people want a real stadium. She is trying to sway people into her narrow way of thinking which is fix up SMU stadium...........
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  #2973  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 4:02 PM
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Agreed it's obvious Uteck is pulling a con job, she is more special interest than anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by q12 View Post
Just having a look on worldstadiums.com at some future stadiums under construction.

Netanya Stadium in Isreal looks interresting.

Built in 2 stages:

First Stage capacity is 14,000 seats
Final Stage is 24,000

and construction cost would likely be under 60 million Canadian dollars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netanya_Stadium







Looks like it might be bench seating which is why it would be cheap. Adding seats would probably keep the price still reasonable.

First Stage



Final Stage





I still like this economical stadium. This a real world example of something that could be reproduced for a reasonable cost.
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  #2974  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Even this longtime Leafs fan suffering from Canucks fever

By ED McHUGH | BUZZ FROM THE ’BURBS
Mon, Jun 6 - 4:54 AM

I JUST SPENT a few days on our country’s west coast in Vancouver. The place is Canuck crazy!

In case you don’t follow sports, the Vancouver Canucks play in the National Hockey League. During this past regular season they amassed a league-leading 117 points — well ahead of any other team. They are playing the Boston Bruins in the league’s final series for the top prize in men’s hockey — the Stanley Cup.

It was 17 years ago when the Canucks last played in the finals, while Boston has not been there since 1990. Vancouver has been in the league for 40 years and never captured the top trophy. Boston has five since joining the league in 1924, with the most recent win occurring in 1972 during the Bobby Orr era.

It was fascinating to walk around downtown Vancouver. About half of the people were wearing some version of the NHL team’s jersey. From one-year-olds to those over 90, it was amazing to see. You actually felt out of sync by not wearing some Canucks’ paraphernalia.

Some have described what is happening as a legacy of the very successful Winter Olympics staged there last February. Whatever it is, it is unifying the city in a huge way.

Because of time zones and media coverage, the games start very early by our standards, many at 5 or 6 p.m. While I was there, one semifinal game started at noon on a Sunday.

For weekday games, people either head to the game, rush home from work or wander to their favourite gathering place to share in the excitement. There is a powerful energy in a room when 200 to 300 patrons all rise and fall with each exciting play.

There are usually a few fans of the opposing team, but their cheers are no match for the rest of the room. Many windows are open throughout the city and synchronized "oohs" and "aahs" emanate from buildings.

For three hours, there is a marked decline in pedestrian and vehicular traffic. Throughout the day, all transit buses briefly display a route number that quickly transitions to "Go Canucks Go."

Whenever the Canucks score, transit buses pierce the air with horn blasts. All media outlets, signs and buildings bear the same themed message, longing for their team’s success.

It made me think of the ability of sport to unify humans. Sport can be a very powerful force. Whether it is the Canucks, the Sackville Flyers, the Bedford Eagles, the Halifax Mooseheads or Waverley’s Cheema Aquatic Club, a chord is struck with many fans.

Local or international, the emotional connection we form with these organizations and their participants can be transcending. The success of the Canada Winter Games in February was a great way to unify our own region this past winter.

(Well, except for the debate about the skating oval afterwards.)

We need to continue to seek these opportunities and build on our spunk and spirit. My sense is that as long as the financial risks are reasonable, these kinds of activities have a long-term unifying effect. And I haven’t even mentioned the dreaded divisive words here — Halifax stadium.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/BCW/1247069.html
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  #2975  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 4:33 PM
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Former CFLer supports bid for Maritime franchise

Times & Transcript
Published Wednesday June 1st, 2011

Quote:
Terry Baker, who played football for the Mount Allison Mounties, and his wife Krista own a gift shop in Lunenburg, N.S. He spent the final seven seasons of his CFL career with Montreal and retired in 2002.

Baker didn't attend last year's historic game in Moncton, but he's been to the city's new stadium which was built to host the 2010 world junior track and field championship.

"The stadium venue isn't the greatest for watching football because the fans are so far from the field," he said. "At the stadiums in Hamilton and Montreal, the fans are much closer to the field and they're a little higher looking down.

This must be avoided for Halifax's stadium at all cost. This can be a mulit-purpose facility, but no track.
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  #2976  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 10:08 PM
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Saying we can build a CFL stadium for 50-60% of what everyone else is building one for is simply farfetched. Hamilton and Winnipeg are not looking at $200 million give or take $10 million because they are stupid, they are talking about that because that is what it costs.

Fenwick, with respect I think in the past that you have taken a straight currency conversion of building a stadium in a foreign country and assumed we "should" be able to build one here for the same price. Currency is just a piece of it, there is the whole relative purchasing power per dollar issue. I don't think it is appropriate to look outside of North America for cost to build information.
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  #2977  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 10:28 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Waye Mason View Post
Saying we can build a CFL stadium for 50-60% of what everyone else is building one for is simply farfetched. Hamilton and Winnipeg are not looking at $200 million give or take $10 million because they are stupid, they are talking about that because that is what it costs.

Fenwick, with respect I think in the past that you have taken a straight currency conversion of building a stadium in a foreign country and assumed we "should" be able to build one here for the same price. Currency is just a piece of it, there is the whole relative purchasing power per dollar issue. I don't think it is appropriate to look outside of North America for cost to build information.
Are you getting my posts mixed up with someone else?

I previously stated that Calgary built McMahon Stadium in 1960 for $1 million dollars with initially 22,000 seats. Why do you keep ignored that fact? Why do you ignore that a stadium such as Montreal's Molson Stadium has been a successful stadium?

Once again you have shown that you are going to completely ignore the facts and just post whatever pops into your head. You were given the facts as to why the Winnipeg stadium is costing $200 million dollars but you simply choose to ignore the facts. Your exaggerated cost for Hamilton is just that - an exaggeration.

Please do some real research instead of pretending that you are some sort of an expert. I will no longer waste my time responding to your nonsense. Luckily there is an ignore function on skyscraperpage.
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  #2978  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 11:43 PM
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Meeting No.1 done!

Well I'm just back in from the first of three public meetings on the Stadium steering committee.
I thought it was great to be able to place post-it type answers to questions for all to see. I would say very positive comment by all but there were a few that exclaimed a need to not build a "white elephant". Also one person Evans I think that was on the negative side.

One thing that the meeting lacked was any sort of update from the committee itself and any sort of opportunity to publicly ask questions of the committee for others to voice support or non support on. All of the questions were pre-determined by the committee so no public ability to ask.....

I would not hesitate to say that most of the post-it notes echoes the general theme of this site to build it big enough for future considerations of tenants like soccer and football. 25000 to 30000 with the ability to expand for larger public needs down the road or for specific events.

I'm not sure of any others from this site that may have been present but thought it was poorly attended. I would have expected hundreds to be there, but not the case.

ATLANTIC STADIUM!

home of the Atlantic Storm!

Last edited by ATL Stadium; Jun 6, 2011 at 11:45 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #2979  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2011, 12:06 AM
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I just returned from the first meeting too and I have to agree that the turnout was fairly disappointing. When I got there shortly after 630, there might have been about 40 people, and the number steadily declined until when I left at about 745 the amount of staff and consultants outnumbered the public. The coffee was good though!

Most of the comments were fairly positive, but there were a fair number that were completely against having anything to do with the CFL. A lot said things like central location and access to adequate parking and transportation infrastructure. Shannon Park seemed a popular location too. Also, most people seemed to want at least a 20-25000 seat stadium, while the information seemed to indicate that the consultants were looking at something less than 20000. Maybe this will change their recommendations...

Another thing that I found disappointing was the lack of any real information. I learned more from the city website than I did from the several boards they had around the room, and most of the consultants seemed reluctant to comment on anything other than the most basic facts of the stadium.

I didn't get a chance to talk to them but I saw councilors Sloane and Watts were there as I was leaving. All in all, the crowd seemed in favor of the stadium and most of the suggestions were positive.

Hopefully a larger crowd shows up for the next two meetings.

Eric
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  #2980  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2011, 12:09 AM
beyeas beyeas is offline
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Originally Posted by ATL Stadium View Post
Well I'm just back in from the first of three public meetings on the Stadium steering committee.
I thought it was great to be able to place post-it type answers to questions for all to see. I would say very positive comment by all but there were a few that exclaimed a need to not build a "white elephant". Also one person Evans I think that was on the negative side.

One thing that the meeting lacked was any sort of update from the committee itself and any sort of opportunity to publicly ask questions of the committee for others to voice support or non support on. All of the questions were pre-determined by the committee so no public ability to ask.....

I would not hesitate to say that most of the post-it notes echoes the general theme of this site to build it big enough for future considerations of tenants like soccer and football. 25000 to 30000 with the ability to expand for larger public needs down the road or for specific events.

I'm not sure of any others from this site that may have been present but thought it was poorly attended. I would have expected hundreds to be there, but not the case.

ATLANTIC STADIUM!

home of the Atlantic Storm!
Yeah I didn't get there until 8pm, but apparently the crowds were great at 6:30. I have a friend who is on the committee (didn't realize until I saw him there) and had a good chat with him.
I had a good look at all the messages that were posted, since I was there until it was done at 8:30. 90% were positive in various forms, but as I was saying to my friend it will be difficult to integrate it all because much of it is mutually exclusive.

Regardless, I put in my 2 cents to the committee members as a representative of the Beyeas Special Interest Group (TM), and said that this needs to happen, it needs to be built in a way that is expandable for future planning purposes up to a full Grey Cup size, should not have a track so as to preserve views for the primary uses of football and soccer, should be integrated with a transit hub, should not just be a slightly scaled up version of what Moncton built, and that this is a huge quality of life issue that is a massive part of the equation of recruiting and retaining talented workers to this city (as quality of life requires a whole range of amenities).
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