HOUSTON | Development Thread II

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by AviationGuy

I love the idea of 5-10 story apartment buildings as part of infill. Are any of those in Midtown? That area really needs more good infill. Some of it already looks great, but there's still plenty of space for more.

What midtown is getting is 4-5 story apartments.

[Dale]

For whatever reason, Houston is now the laggard in terms of downtown dynamism.

[Onn]

Originally Posted by Dale

For whatever reason, Houston is now the laggard in terms of downtown dynamism.

The free market at work, businesses don't want to live and work in a large scale downtown anymore. It's not a phonomena in any way limited to Houston.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Dale

For whatever reason, Houston is now the laggard in terms of downtown dynamism.

downtown is a relatively small area hemmed in by freeways and most of the buildings are not built for ground level retail but rather people driving to work and promptly leaving at 5. the theater district is off in it's own area as are the stadiums while the rest of downtown has always been kinda seedy. they can't quite shake that stigma. there is market square and some of main street but they are too small to make a real difference and discovery green (the new park) surrounded by modern office towers, no ground level retail anywhere close by apart from pavilions which has been a flop for the most part.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by Dale

For whatever reason, Houston is now the laggard in terms of downtown dynamism.

First of all based on what? Second of all, who cares? A lot of growth is taking place in the surrounding neighborhoods.

Originally Posted by JManc

downtown is a relatively small area hemmed in by freeways and most of the buildings are not built for ground level retail but rather people driving to work and promptly leaving at 5. the theater district is off in it's own area as are the stadiums while the rest of downtown has always been kinda seedy. they can't quite shake that stigma. there is market square and some of main street but they are too small to make a real difference and discovery green (the new park) surrounded by modern office towers, no ground level retail anywhere close by apart from pavilions which has been a flop for the most part.

No need to act like a debbie downer. Most American downtowns have a majority of their daytime populations leave at 5PM as commuters make up the overwhelmingly majority of workers. There is plenty of retail and restaurants to support the all those workers located in the tunnel system and at ground level, you must not frequent downtown too much during the day. Especially on a mild, sunny day downtown is bustling with people ditching the tunnels.

I'm not sure what difference you are talking about because at night there are pockets of activity. The pavilions, which I go to monthly always has a crowd. Where the Pavilions have flopped is where it comes to shops and daytime activity as the night life is strong. A handful of new bars have opened up within the past year across the street from House of Blues. As to the seediness, Houston in general appears pretty seedy and gritty comparatively.

[lockmat]

some photo and video updates for Skanska's 3009 Post Oak: http://goo.gl/jNXR7

[JManc]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

First of all based on what? Second of all, who cares? A lot of growth is taking place in the surrounding neighborhoods.



No need to act like a debbie downer. Most American downtowns have a majority of their daytime populations leave at 5PM as commuters make up the overwhelmingly majority of workers. There is plenty of retail and restaurants to support the all those workers located in the tunnel system and at ground level, you must not frequent downtown too much during the day. Especially on a mild, sunny day downtown is bustling with people ditching the tunnels.

I'm not sure what difference you are talking about because at night there are pockets of activity. The pavilions, which I go to monthly always has a crowd. Where the Pavilions have flopped is where it comes to shops and daytime activity as the night life is strong. A handful of new bars have opened up within the past year across the street from House of Blues. As to the seediness, Houston in general appears pretty seedy and gritty comparatively.

but after business hours, downtown is rather dead considering houston's size. it's busy during the day because its a captive audience, office workers. it's either work hours, an astros or rockets game that bring people downtown. downtown in of itself is not that big of a draw. it's not being negative, it's the truth. LA has a rather dead downtown as well as the action is elsewhere.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

First of all based on what? Second of all, who cares? A lot of growth is taking place in the surrounding neighborhoods.



No need to act like a debbie downer. Most American downtowns have a majority of their daytime populations leave at 5PM as commuters make up the overwhelmingly majority of workers. There is plenty of retail and restaurants to support the all those workers located in the tunnel system and at ground level, you must not frequent downtown too much during the day. Especially on a mild, sunny day downtown is bustling with people ditching the tunnels.

I'm not sure what difference you are talking about because at night there are pockets of activity. The pavilions, which I go to monthly always has a crowd. Where the Pavilions have flopped is where it comes to shops and daytime activity as the night life is strong. A handful of new bars have opened up within the past year across the street from House of Blues. As to the seediness, Houston in general appears pretty seedy and gritty comparatively.

I had sort of the same reaction. When I visit Houston and see the tremendous improvements made all over the city, including downtown, I realize that the city must have a ton of positive and energized people who really care to do more than sit back and criticize. A whole lot still needs to be improved, including the vitality of downtown, but it's been heading in the right direction.

Regarding seediness, yes of course there are areas like that. But there are also a ton of super nice areas in the city. The cool thing is that a lot of formerly seedy areas are getting upgraded rapidly, again because of so many people who spend their time making a positive difference in the city. The same thing is happening all over the country, fortunately.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by JManc

but after business hours, downtown is rather dead considering houston's size. it's busy during the day because its a captive audience, office workers. it's either work hours, an astros or rockets game that bring people downtown. downtown in of itself is not that big of a draw. it's not being negative, it's the truth. LA has a rather dead downtown as well as the action is elsewhere.

Aren't most traditional downtown's dead after office hours, that is where the bulk of office space is located? I just don't get why having a "vibrant" downtown is so important? Why would downtown be better to have the action at instead of midtown?

I agree downtown is relatively dead after business hours especially during a week night except for Friday and maybe Thursday. There are pockets of activity there have been incrementally improving. It just seems you haven't been downtown during the weekend in awhile.

[Cloud92]

Who wants a dead downtown anymore

[TexasPlaya]

Some more updates on Ashton Rice Village:

All photos by me

IMAG0139 by dv1033, on Flickr


IMAG0140 by dv1033, on Flickr


IMAG0141 by dv1033, on Flickr


IMAG0142 by dv1033, on Flickr


IMAG0143 by dv1033, on Flickr


IMAG0144 by dv1033, on Flickr


IMAG0146 by dv1033, on Flickr

Personally, since I love Rice Village this is a top project being constructed for me. It will be 6 six stories with a small amount of ground retail.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Aren't most traditional downtown's dead after office hours, that is where the bulk of office space is located? I just don't get why having a "vibrant" downtown is so important? Why would downtown be better to have the action at instead of midtown?

I agree downtown is relatively dead after business hours especially during a week night except for Friday and maybe Thursday. There are pockets of activity there have been incrementally improving. It just seems you haven't been downtown during the weekend in awhile.

for a city houston's size, downtown should be a lot busier after hours but i agree, downtown does not have to be the "it" area.

[lockmat]

I'm liking the progress, thanks TexasPlaya

Also, some more pics for High Street http://goo.gl/7OTDw (more at the link)





and 2525 McCue apartments http://goo.gl/9h4JX (more at the link)

[aquablue]

Originally Posted by JManc

downtown is a relatively small area hemmed in by freeways and most of the buildings are not built for ground level retail but rather people driving to work and promptly leaving at 5. the theater district is off in it's own area as are the stadiums while the rest of downtown has always been kinda seedy. they can't quite shake that stigma. there is market square and some of main street but they are too small to make a real difference and discovery green (the new park) surrounded by modern office towers, no ground level retail anywhere close by apart from pavilions which has been a flop for the most part.

Sounds horrid if you are a city lover.

Having a dead and seedy downtown just destroys the entire city for me. If they can't shake the stigma, something drastic need to be done to give Houston a proper center. Do you really want to be another LA?

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by aquablue

Do you really want to be another LA?

Don't be hatin. We have recently developed a pretty good downtown.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by aquablue

Sounds horrid if you are a city lover.

Having a dead and seedy downtown just destroys the entire city for me. If they can't shake the stigma, something drastic need to be done to give Houston a proper center. Do you really want to be another LA?

I don't think it's seedy at all (Houston's downtown). I think it's a super good looking downtown overall. But after hours needs to be a lot busier, like Austin's downtown. In large part, that means many more people need to live downtown, not just work downtown. As I said earlier, a lot of people are working hard to improve downtown, and it is indeed improving. Negatism isn't the answer and is never helpful.

[Shasta]

Downtown LA isn't dead at night. Sure, it's not Times Square, but there are some pretty great places to go.

As for Houston, I love downtown, even at night. Not sure how someone can claim it is dead when the Astros have averaged over 33,000 per game since moving downtown. Meanwhile, a few blocks away at the Toyota Center, the Rockets have averaged over 16,900 per game since moving downtown. Heck, even the AHL Aeros are drawing over 7,100 per game this season. And, lets not forget that the Toyota Center brings in the big name concerts (later this year includes Madonna, Radiohead, Nickelback, Van Halen, Cold Play and more). Speaking of concerts, Cowboy Mouth is playing at the House of Blues TONIGHT. Later this month, the Dropkick Murphys, George Clinton, and Heart will all play at the HOB. Over at the Verizon Wireless Theatre, that venue will host everything from Wanda Sykes to Roller Derby to Florence and the Machine to something called the Mariachi Invitational. On the East side of downtown, Warehouse live continues to book some awesome gigs like Love Void and Young the Giant.

And then there's the fine arts. The HSO draws over 350,000 to Jones Hall per year. The Alley Theatre brings in over 190,000 to see first run plays. The Hobby Center packs them in for Broadway tours and more. The Houston Ballet at the Wortham is the nation's 4th largest ballet company and just opened the nation's largest dance facility across the block where folks on the sidewalk can gaze at the practices.

And then there's things like the new Sundance Theater, Lucky Strike, Artista, Discovery Green, La Carafe, Market Square, and the still hanging on club and bar scene.

I've been to lots of downtowns and Houston's is perfectly healthy.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by aquablue

Sounds horrid if you are a city lover.

Having a dead and seedy downtown just destroys the entire city for me. If they can't shake the stigma, something drastic need to be done to give Houston a proper center. Do you really want to be another LA?

Geeze you must be a pretty dour person if all you care about it a lively downtown. It destroys the entire city? Really?

Originally Posted by Shasta

Downtown LA isn't dead at night. Sure, it's not Times Square, but there are some pretty great places to go.

As for Houston, I love downtown, even at night. Not sure how someone can claim it is dead when the Astros have averaged over 33,000 per game since moving downtown. Meanwhile, a few blocks away at the Toyota Center, the Rockets have averaged over 16,900 per game since moving downtown. Heck, even the AHL Aeros are drawing over 7,100 per game this season. And, lets not forget that the Toyota Center brings in the big name concerts (later this year includes Madonna, Radiohead, Nickelback, Van Halen, Cold Play and more). Speaking of concerts, Cowboy Mouth is playing at the House of Blues TONIGHT. Later this month, the Dropkick Murphys, George Clinton, and Heart will all play at the HOB. Over at the Verizon Wireless Theatre, that venue will host everything from Wanda Sykes to Roller Derby to Florence and the Machine to something called the Mariachi Invitational. On the East side of downtown, Warehouse live continues to book some awesome gigs like Love Void and Young the Giant.

And then there's the fine arts. The HSO draws over 350,000 to Jones Hall per year. The Alley Theatre brings in over 190,000 to see first run plays. The Hobby Center packs them in for Broadway tours and more. The Houston Ballet at the Wortham is the nation's 4th largest ballet company and just opened the nation's largest dance facility across the block where folks on the sidewalk can gaze at the practices.

And then there's things like the new Sundance Theater, Lucky Strike, Artista, Discovery Green, La Carafe, Market Square, and the still hanging on club and bar scene.

I've been to lots of downtowns and Houston's is perfectly healthy.

I agree. I think it just bugs people that downtown isn't "the" area.

[ThreeHundred]

Maybe Houston needs to market downtown better. Let people know that there's something going on there.

[Reverberation]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

Maybe Houston needs to market downtown better. Let people know that there's something going on there.

It's eventually going to happen. The neighborhoods surrounding downtown have been going through a big transformation. The cost of land per SF in downtown Houston discourages the residential growth needed by making it necessary to build way up, which the amenities (shopping/safety/foot traffic) don't support. As the neighborhoods around downtown build up, we are going to see the critical mass needed to support a full transformation in downtown proper.