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  #121  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 6:42 PM
Toronto6A6B Toronto6A6B is offline
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Here's the cold spells stats for Toronto I found in Environment Canada's website.

Toronto

2003
Jan 17/-16.8
Jan 22/-18.5
Jan 23/-17.4
Jan 24/-14.7
Jan 26/-15.9
Jan 27/-20
Feb 11/-19.1
Feb 13/-13.6
Feb 15/-15.4
Feb 16/-18.2
Feb 17/-13
Feb 24/-12.8
Feb 25/-15.7
Feb 26/-13.7
Mar 3/-23.3

2004
Jan 9/-22
Jan 10/-20.7
Jan 14/-21
Jan 15/-20.9
Jan 16/-21
Jan 17/-13
Jan 20/-13.5
Jan 21/-13.7
Jan 23/-13.8
Jan 24/-17.2
Jan 25/-17
Feb 15/-16.8

2005
Jan 18/-21.8
Jan 20/-17.4
Jan 21/-22.7
Jan 22/-22.9
Jan 23/-20.2
Jan 24/-15.2
Jan 27/-20.3
Jan 28/-15

2006
Jan/Feb all above -13C

2007
Jan 26/-15.7
Feb 6/-13
Feb 13/-16.5
Feb 14/-14.7
Feb 15/-18.4
Feb 19/-14
Mar 6/-20.7

2008
Jan 3/-15.1
Feb 11/-16.7
Feb 27/-14.4
Feb 28/-16.5

2009
Jan 14/-19.1
Jan 15/-16
Jan 16/-15.3
Jan 17/-17.4
Jan 21/-14.5
Jan 24/-17
Jan 26/-13.2
Jan 31/-13.3
Feb 4/-14.7
Feb 5/-17.3
Feb 28/-15.1
Mar 3/-14.8

2010
Jan 2/-16.3
Jan 3/-14.6
Jan 9/-13.9
Jan 29/-14.8
Jan 30/-17.9

2011
Jan 17/-14.1
Jan 23/-18.2
Jan 24/-18.2
Jan 31/-16.2
Feb 8/-14.1
Feb 11/-14

2012
Jan 3/-14.2
Jan 15/-14.4

With global warming in mind and with South facing backyard and some protection, I think Toronto can grow windmill palms.
Note: Young windmill palms is hardy to only -8C according to Wiki; Mature windmill palms can survive colder temperatures, please check Wiki for details.
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  #122  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 3:48 AM
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I think places in south western ontario would be able for sure. What would happen if you experimented with the palms grown in southern california on the west coast. Do you think it would survive with protection or not?
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  #123  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 3:53 AM
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Is SW Ontario regarded as some kind of microclimate influenced by its position between the lakes or something?
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  #124  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 3:57 AM
subtropicalbc subtropicalbc is offline
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yup there's actually a place in ontario that fits the characteristics for having a humid subtropical climate....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amherstburg#Climate
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  #125  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 4:02 AM
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Over the last 20 years Vancouver has gone below -13 only twice, once in Dec 2008 and once in 1993.

Victoria, btw, has not been below -13 since 1969. The majority of years don't go below -10, and about 1 out of 5 don't go below -5.
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  #126  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 4:05 AM
subtropicalbc subtropicalbc is offline
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Do you think that palms like the one in southern california will grow in oak bay,
Cadboro bay area of Victoria?
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  #127  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 4:15 AM
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I have actually heard that there are some more exotic palms in Oak Bay. I cant remember their names though.

The coldest temperature ever recorded in Oak Bay was -11 in February, 1986.
Their coldest month is january with an average high of 7.2 and low of 3.7.
And here is the amazing part.
On average only 10.3 days a year fall below freezing with only 3.7 days a year recording a low below -2!

So there are many, many plants that in Canada, you can only grow in oak Bay and some of the other extremely mild sections of the Gulf Islands / southern Vancouver Island.
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  #128  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 4:26 AM
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Ok cause I personnaly find the thinner palms look better. Im just wondering if you can grow palms like the california fan palm and the date palm in the milder areas?
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  #129  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 4:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subtropicalbc View Post
yup there's actually a place in ontario that fits the characteristics for having a humid subtropical climate....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amherstburg#Climate
Not to rain on your parade, but the only places in Canada and the continental US that fit the characteristics of having a subtropical climate are southern California, the Gulf Coast and southern Florida. To even entertain the believe that Canada has a subtropical climate is pretty out there.

If you can't grow broadleaf evergreens, an array of palms and citrus fruits, you're not in a subtropical climate zone.

I'd take the wikipedia entry with a giant grain of salt.


Toronto6A6B, yeah, southern Taiwan can grow coconuts palms quite easily. You can see many of them as far north as Taichung. I even saw one in Taipei in a sheltered alleyway. It looked to be pretty healthy too. I used to live in Tainan, and took special interest in seeing exactly where coconut palms would grow.
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  #130  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 4:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giallo View Post
Not to rain on your parade, but the only places in Canada and the continental US that fit the characteristics of having a subtropical climate are southern California, the Gulf Coast and southern Florida. To even entertain the believe that Canada has a subtropical climate is pretty out there.

If you can't grow broadleaf evergreens, an array of palms and citrus fruits, you're not in a subtropical climate zone.

I'd take the wikipedia entry with a giant grain of salt.


Toronto6A6B, yeah, southern Taiwan can grow coconuts palms quite easily. You can see many of them as far north as Taichung. I even saw one in Taipei in a sheltered alleyway. It looked to be pretty healthy too. I used to live in Tainan, and took special interest in seeing exactly where coconut palms would grow.
I agree with the first section, there is nowhere in Canada that is close to being subtropical.

That being said, the souther eastern portion of Vancouver Island and the Gulf Islands do meet the classifications for a Mediterranean ecosystem on several mainstream climatic scales, though there is still some debate on this. (the prevalence of a strong dry season in these areas during the summer, which can often lead to drought conditions is the main factor pushing this region towards Mediterranean and not Marine (along with the mild winters, especially in areas such as Oak Bay). A classic marine climate has its precipitation relatively evenly spread throughout the year.

Also, this region of BC does have a rather impressive native broadleaf evergreen, such as one would find in the subtropics, the Arbutus tree.

In fact here are some pics I took of Arbutus groves on Vancouver Island earlier this month (first weekend of March):











All pics are my own:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/

So indeed, south coastal BC is home to the only native tree in Canada that I would refer to as "exotic."
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  #131  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 12:08 PM
Toronto6A6B Toronto6A6B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subtropicalbc View Post
yup there's actually a place in ontario that fits the characteristics for having a humid subtropical climate....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amherstburg#Climate
According to another classification (other than Koppen) that I saw online, New York city is classified as subtropical, that's as far as subtropical can reach.

Amherstburg is mild but its average low, high, mean are a few degrees Celsius colder than NYC.
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  #132  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subtropicalbc View Post
I think places in south western ontario would be able for sure. What would happen if you experimented with the palms grown in southern california on the west coast. Do you think it would survive with protection or not?
I like Windmill palms, they give me a subtropical look so I would experiment with Windmill palms if they are available in Toronto. I wonder if Home Depot or Rona or other nursuries carry Windmill palms ?

Now I know at least the young ones are hardy down to only -8C according to wiki, so I would definitely protect them.

I think Toronto can grow Windmill palms, especially area near lake Ontario. Some microclimate near the lake might shift to 7b from 6b.

I did more measurements and comparison between my front and back yards, the spread under the same condition (sunny day, but my temperture sensors were placed under shades as direct sunlight will heat up the sensors to a whopping of 20 degrees warmer) was a whopping 5C approximately. That's enough to shift a full zone. So I am not surprised that microclimate in Toronto falls into the 7b zone which is warm enough to grow Windmill palms.

Direct sun: The reading is 20C higher but that's not accurate as the sensor is hidden inside the plastic case, so this plastic case creates another sub microclimate (like a green house) which boost the reading 20 degrees Celsius higher. I wouldn't use this reading though.
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  #133  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 1:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giallo View Post
Not to rain on your parade, but the only places in Canada and the continental US that fit the characteristics of having a subtropical climate are southern California, the Gulf Coast and southern Florida. To even entertain the believe that Canada has a subtropical climate is pretty out there.



cfa

I think the poster is referring to the literal Koppen description of Humid Subtropical (which is a poor descriptor I think). In the non coastal eastern/central US that means absolutely brutalizing summers to bring up the yearly temp average with the cool winters. I'm talking about back to back days of over 100 F(37-38 C).


You end up with an average temperature that is deceptive and Koppen called it "sub-tropical," which is BS. His ideas about climate fall apart in North America. ...btw that cfa outlier dot over the top/middle is St. Louis so I can speak from experience on the summer heat.

Last edited by Centropolis; Mar 22, 2012 at 1:59 PM.
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  #134  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2012, 3:57 PM
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They should have a warm winter subtropical and a cool winter subtropical
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  #135  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 2:46 PM
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Apprently coconut palms are hardy to zone 9a

http://www.florida-palm-trees.com/coconut-palm-tree/
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  #136  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 5:47 AM
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where else can bamboo grow in canada?


sitelines.org


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  #137  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2012, 5:25 AM
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Basically anywhere zone 5 or more. I've seen it grown as far north as Ottawa. I have some on my property that I plan to kill this summer. Just too invasive.
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  #138  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2012, 5:47 AM
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Quote:
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Basically anywhere zone 5 or more. I've seen it grown as far north as Ottawa. I have some on my property that I plan to kill this summer. Just too invasive.
Indeed, bamboo is more of a weed than an exotic plant. Some conservations groups et al are trying to eliminate bamboo from the ecosystem across the board around here, including in people's little back yards and everything.
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  #139  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 2:07 AM
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yes its a problem here too among home owners, it invades neighbours yards and complaints lawsuits erupt

but its been quite used a lot lately in public spaces when its contained within a planter/container type environment
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  #140  
Old Posted May 5, 2012, 3:50 PM
subtropicalbc subtropicalbc is offline
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Do you think Washingtonia Robustus (Mexican Fan Palm) is possible to grow in BC? Some mild sections are even in Zone 9b.
http://www.plantmaps.com/interactive...diness-map.php
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