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  #41  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2012, 6:19 PM
reidjr reidjr is offline
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
I don't think a sales tax increase would be good. Instead they should raise income taxes and have fees to pay for some things, like a new toll on new highways to pay off the costs of construction.
Sure you could raise income tax yes and have toll roads but if you add up all the taxes at all 3 levels it is a fair amount and its going to come to a point where people will not be able to afford the taxes.

Last edited by reidjr; Feb 22, 2012 at 6:32 PM.
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  #42  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2012, 6:27 PM
Highinthesky Highinthesky is offline
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I think Ontario has to be very careful with selling an asset like the LCBO. Even Don Drummond didn't outright say sell the LCBO. He said build a business case and if the long term net benefit to Ontario is substantial then look at selling the LCBO, otherwise don't.

Last edited by Highinthesky; Feb 22, 2012 at 8:40 PM.
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  #43  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2012, 7:51 PM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
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Sure you could raise income tax yes and have toll roads but if you add up all the taxes at all 3 levels it is a fair amount and its going to come to a point where people will not be able to afford the taxes.
But the fact is we are not paying that much and most people can afford it. And if it i done based on income, then the people that can afford it, will pay for it.
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  #44  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2012, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
But the fact is we are not paying that much and most people can afford it. And if it i done based on income, then the people that can afford it, will pay for it.
I would not say were not paying that much take things such as the health premium sure it may not be called a tax but it really is you can only tax people so much it does not matter what you call it.
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  #45  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2012, 9:48 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
I don't think a sales tax increase would be good. Instead they should raise income taxes and have fees to pay for some things, like a new toll on new highways to pay off the costs of construction.
Toll roads would work IMO, including on existing rural freeways (NOT on some existing urban freeways, particularly in the GTA but also in Ottawa and Hamilton) due to the potential for extreme congestion on parallel roads, even if transit absorbs some of the traffic). However, on highways like the 401 that serve long-distance travel, the per kilometre toll would have to be much lower than on commuter-focused highways. For example, a trip from Kingston to Oshawa (distance of 196 km) would have a toll of $9.80 at 5 cents per kilometre, which could only be increased legally by no more than 1 cent every 5 years.

Tolls should be prohibited, however, in Northern Ontario (north of the Severn River in MTO's Northeast and Northwest Regions), due to the lack of alternate routes in most cases.

Road toll revenue should be dedicated as follows:

60% - Highway construction and maintenance

20% - Municipal road operations

20% - Public transportation
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  #46  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 8:45 PM
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Well, that was a let down. Who would have thunk that the Ontario debt is mainly the fault of the doctors! (And to some degree teachers - but not really!)

I expect that the Dippers will support (albeit with some disenters) and it will pass. I also forecast that the external financial agencies will downgrade Ontario's debt rating within 6 months.

Sigh - wasted opportunities.
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  #47  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 8:49 PM
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Both parties need to vote against the budget. The PC's already will.

The NDP will get the wrath of unions - and a huge one - if they support the budget. They will likely forever oppose the NDP (and support who, the Greens? Communists? a new left-wing party?) as a result.
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  #48  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 8:50 PM
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No one is ready for another election, the Dippers will find a way to support ("okay everyone, call in sick today") so they can take credit for the business tax freeze while letting Dalty die on the union pyre.
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  #49  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 8:54 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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No one is ready for another election, the Dippers will find a way to support ("okay everyone, call in sick today") so they can take credit for the business tax freeze while letting Dalty die on the union pyre.
But the NDP would also take a big hit from union support as well. Most likely, they would stay home and endorse no one, or support the Green Party.
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  #50  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 10:07 PM
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Unions wouldn't support the Green Party, because it is official Green Party policy to eliminate union donations to political parties, and I think unions would find that more offensive than having a party they effectively control vote—once—for a budget that isn't totally favourable to them.

If another election is called, the PCs might win. Unions don't want that.

I don't know many union members who support the Green Party. Most of the Greens supporters aren't unionized, and their policies in favour of unions are nowhere near as strong as their policies in favour of corporations. As far as Unions are concerned, the Green Party, especially the Green Party of Ontario (which is still relatively centrist/centre right when it comes to economic issues) are no better than the Liberals. If unions don't support the NDP regardless of how it votes, they'll basically shoot themselves in the foot. If they think they have too small a voice in Queens Park now, they'll have even less if they fracture their vote.
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  #51  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 10:50 PM
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I agree no one is ready for another election. Regardless, an election may be called if the budget is defeated, and we'll probably end up with another minority that's even more likely to fall.

All three of Ontario's main parties suck, at least in my experience. It's either vote for the one you think sucks the least or try the Greens.
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  #52  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2012, 2:09 PM
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I think the Liberals are doing a pretty good job with what they have to work with.

I don't know what people expect a government to do? Firing everyone and gutting things are not the way to go.
The way the Liberals are doing things is fine. Protecting what matters while finding efficiencies.
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  #53  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2012, 2:55 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Unions wouldn't support the Green Party, because it is official Green Party policy to eliminate union donations to political parties, and I think unions would find that more offensive than having a party they effectively control vote—once—for a budget that isn't totally favourable to them.

If another election is called, the PCs might win. Unions don't want that.

I don't know many union members who support the Green Party. Most of the Greens supporters aren't unionized, and their policies in favour of unions are nowhere near as strong as their policies in favour of corporations. As far as Unions are concerned, the Green Party, especially the Green Party of Ontario (which is still relatively centrist/centre right when it comes to economic issues) are no better than the Liberals. If unions don't support the NDP regardless of how it votes, they'll basically shoot themselves in the foot. If they think they have too small a voice in Queens Park now, they'll have even less if they fracture their vote.
Who would they support then, the Communist Party? That would be absolute suicide for the union movement, since they would be seen as extreme radicals and that would push the next Conservative government to introduce right-to-work laws.
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  #54  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2012, 9:56 PM
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They will support the NDP. They always support the NDP. If anything, the triggering of an election will create an even bigger push among the unions to get people to support the NDP in the hopes that the NDP will be able to form government.
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  #55  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2012, 10:29 AM
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Will it pass?

Without a majority and some reluctance to support this budget, will it pass?
I saw a media report that quoted a poll that said people in Ontario would support another provincial election. Can't remember getting asked.
In our current situation, we can't afford it.
I also see that there will be a lawsuit over the cancellation of the gas fired power generating plant in Oakville. Wonder if the price for the votes were worth it?
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  #56  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2012, 7:18 PM
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I would like to know why people would want an election now, and what they think another government would do?

The fact of the matter is, we can have a pretty good budget like this one which protects services while reducing spending.
Or we can have a slash and burn budget which you can be sure is what conservatives would do.

So I really don't know what people are complaining about. Do we want a repeat of Harris? I don't think so.
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  #57  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2012, 8:39 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
I would like to know why people would want an election now, and what they think another government would do?

The fact of the matter is, we can have a pretty good budget like this one which protects services while reducing spending.
Or we can have a slash and burn budget which you can be sure is what conservatives would do.

So I really don't know what people are complaining about. Do we want a repeat of Harris? I don't think so.
Well, except for the fact that wasteful programs like the Green Energy Act and full-day kindergarten are kept, this is a pretty Harris-like budget.
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  #58  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2012, 9:28 PM
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This basically is a slash and burn budget, it just slashed and burned everything but health care and education.

I'm pretty surprised he didn't download a whole bunch of things to the municipalities.
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  #59  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2012, 11:29 PM
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This basically is a slash and burn budget, it just slashed and burned everything but health care and education.

I'm pretty surprised he didn't download a whole bunch of things to the municipalities.
If anything needed to be slashed and burned, it was those two areas - I am sure there is enough waste in those two departments ALONE to balance the budget in Year 1 without significant cuts to anything else that isn't a pet project, and only one tax hike needed (the corporate tax).

* Allow more private involvement in health care and purchase of private insurance that can cover basic and advanced services
* Scrap the 4 separate duplicate school boards and merge them all into one
* End full-day kindergarten
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  #60  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 11:28 AM
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Another election?

Will this budget carry?
I doubt the Liberals will buy into all the concessions the NDP want. And if they do it will hurt their position.
I think an unbiased review of both health and education would be real eye opener.
If private facilities were allowed to charge OHIP, a government set going rate it may provide the incentive for more companies to start up in areas that are not served or under served?
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