HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     
Welcome to the SkyscraperPage Forum.

Since 1999, SkyscraperPage.com's forum has been one of the most active skyscraper enthusiast communities on the web.  The global membership discusses development news and construction activity on projects from around the world, alongside discussions on urban design, architecture, transportation and many other topics.  SkyscraperPage.com also features unique skyscraper diagrams, a database of construction activity, and publishes popular skyscraper posters.

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2012, 9:56 AM
bornagainbiking bornagainbiking is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Hamilton
Posts: 758
bornagainbiking's Political Rant Thread

Gas prices are ridiculous! Maybe we need some Canadian based solution. We are still at the mercy of the Middle East.
Our weekly, no daily. create a crisis, add a buck a gallon is getting lame.
Somehow we need a Canadian, especially an Ontario plan to keep us in business. And I can't see a green solution.
If you were getting a 100 miles per gallon in a safe stable vehicle it could be feasible or tolerable.
Oil prices this morning are stable yet a 4-5 cent jump. And a thousand bull crap excuses. Apparently one of the technicians in Nigeria has a hang nail and booked off sick.
Really:
Ontario is HUGE! It takes over 24 hrs of driving time to get from Ottawa to Kenora. So we are tied to our various means of transportation.
I would love to see a political party make a stand on a self sufficient province. With a partnership with Alberta. Of course! Pump it here and refine it. If the U.S. Can't build a pipeline or want one, we need one here.
Just tired of all the Green mumbo jumbo incentives and no end in sight.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2012, 11:37 PM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is offline
optional
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 34,561
Haha, OK! Which Ontario community wants an oil refinery?

Oh, that's right: none. They think wind turbines are bad. Ontarians would rather pay far higher gas prices than to have an oil refinery to decrease prices. We know this because that is the reality.

Proximity to oil refineries affects oil prices to a significant degree. Oil prices in Northwestern Ontario are always the highest in the province because no where in the populated part of Canada is further from an oil refinery than we are. All of our gas is brought here by boat from Sarnia or rail from Edmonton and stored in tanks owned entirely by Petro-Canada. The price at which Petro-Canada sells this gas to every single station in our market (they have a monopoly) is the price we pay. We almost got a refinery but there was so much opposition that the company willing to invest here was virtually chased out of town. (That's right! A city with a dying economy, a 12% unemployment rate at the time, chased away 500 jobs and lower gas prices because we didn't want a refinery!)

The same people that complain about the government interfering in things are popping up and saying "Hey! Government! Come interfere with a private enterprise's business model to benefit the people!!!" Honest to fucking God: Anyone who ever advocates for government control of gas prices is no allowed to refer to themselves as capitalist ever again, because that kind of regulation is socialism. I am not arguing against it, I am just saying that if you want government to regulate gas prices for your benefit, you want socialism. It's that simple.

It is the people who oppose every practical solution that are the problem. The unwillingness to allow more refinery capacity closer to the market combined with the near total unwillingness to abandon gas powered transportation and the opposition to society moving away from fossil fuels is why gas prices are so high. It has nothing to do with corporate greed. It's consumer stupidity. We are running out of oil, we've already run out of refinery capacity, and the market is so unwilling to adapt to this reality that they're advocating socialism while complaining about how bad it is.

And you know which party is the only one that agrees with your first post? It's the NDP. The socialists you hate! You agree with them. Every single person who thinks like you agrees with the NDP on this policy while decrying socialism even though this is socialism.

This post doesn't even touch on the 6 week lag between when the oil is purchased at the price you see today and when that oil has been refined into gas and brought to a gas station. Do you think that happens instantly? Do you think gasoline just comes out of the ground, ready to go into your car?? That is like complaining that cereal is too expensive lately even though dextrose just got cheaper. Cereal companies haven't even ordered it at that price yet; how the fuck is it supposed to affect what was made two months ago??

This post is longer than I intended it to be.
__________________
Winnipeg: June 2012 + other photos / random things
It's not about what you don't have—it's the little you've got, and how far you can run with it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 11:18 AM
bornagainbiking bornagainbiking is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Hamilton
Posts: 758
Geez Wally

I guess plain and simple. That there were refineries in Canada and still are. Instead of building new, increase capacity. We used to own PetroCan.
A Canadian solution would be nice.
And gee-whiz, you mean I can't just drive up and park beside the pipeline and tap in.
I understand the concept of production and the evolution of that combination of ingredients have to be mixed to bake a cake, make plastic and produce oil from raw materials. Wood to paper etc etc etc.
I would like to see that maybe a scandal is exposed in the price fixing or manipulation. We have the raw materials and they want to pipe our oil to Texas.
Long pipe line better chance of springing a leak. It would be a smaller percentage of error if the refinery was parked next to the oil sands.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 1:14 PM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,549
I think people are making way too much of a big deal over nothing.

At the end of the day its a couple extra dollars. And hey, maybe you can bike or walk some places.

It is funny how upset people are getting because their gas bill is at most $5.00 more a fill up.
__________________
Miketoronto
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 1:46 PM
flar's Avatar
flar flar is offline
..........
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ottawa-Gatineau
Posts: 10,269
Gas is not expensive relative to other necessities. I don't like that oil companies and middle east tyrants are making a lot of money off of it, but since it is an extremely valuable, limited resource with environmental impacts, it should be expensive.

I'm saying this as someone who is going to spend close to $500 on gas this month (I'm doing a lot more driving than usual)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 3:09 PM
haljackey's Avatar
haljackey haljackey is offline
User Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 1,700
Gas here is still WAY cheaper here than in Europe or other places.

I want to drive less, but the transit system in London sucks. KW has plans for LRT, why don't we?

I agree however that we should use what we get out of the ground, instead of importing it. It's a complicated issue, but it can be done. It would make us more self-sufficient in the long run.
__________________
My Twitter

My Simcity Stuff
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 3:36 PM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,549
I still don't think gas is that expensive.

For example: When we drive to Detroit and back. It costs us maybe $100 bucks in gas, if that. It actually is cheaper than taking the train .
__________________
Miketoronto
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 4:01 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Liver & Onions
Posts: 20,794
^of course. But then with a train, you are getting a service. someone else does the driving and you can put that time to productive use. Also, depreciation/wear and tear on the car should be factored in.
__________________
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. -Donald Rumsfeld
Didn't you notice on the plane when you started talking, eventually I started reading the vomit bag?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 4:05 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Liver & Onions
Posts: 20,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by bornagainbiking View Post
Gas prices are ridiculous! Maybe we need some Canadian based solution. We are still at the mercy of the Middle East.
Our weekly, no daily. create a crisis, add a buck a gallon is getting lame.
Somehow we need a Canadian, especially an Ontario plan to keep us in business. And I can't see a green solution.
If you were getting a 100 miles per gallon in a safe stable vehicle it could be feasible or tolerable.
Oil prices this morning are stable yet a 4-5 cent jump. And a thousand bull crap excuses. Apparently one of the technicians in Nigeria has a hang nail and booked off sick.
Really:
Ontario is HUGE! It takes over 24 hrs of driving time to get from Ottawa to Kenora. So we are tied to our various means of transportation.
I would love to see a political party make a stand on a self sufficient province. With a partnership with Alberta. Of course! Pump it here and refine it. If the U.S. Can't build a pipeline or want one, we need one here.
Just tired of all the Green mumbo jumbo incentives and no end in sight.
I am curbing my Ottawa-Kenora weekly drives as a consequence of paying so much for a gallon of gasoline. Thought maybe I'd become a bornagainbiker and cycle all the way. Plus, it was a tonsilectomy for that Nigerian technician. No wonder prices are racing.
__________________
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. -Donald Rumsfeld
Didn't you notice on the plane when you started talking, eventually I started reading the vomit bag?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 4:45 PM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
I am curbing my Ottawa-Kenora weekly drives as a consequence of paying so much for a gallon of gasoline. Thought maybe I'd become a bornagainbiker and cycle all the way. Plus, it was a tonsilectomy for that Nigerian technician. No wonder prices are racing.
I would not curb my activities over gas prices, as long as I could afford the small increase.

Is it really worth curbing something just to save 5 or 10 bucks on gas if you can afford it?
__________________
Miketoronto
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 11:25 PM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is offline
optional
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 34,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by bornagainbiking View Post
Instead of building new, increase capacity.
When it comes to refineries, increasing capacity is building new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bornagainbiking View Post
We used to own PetroCan.
Yes. That was called "socialism", and you obviously support it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bornagainbiking View Post
I would like to see that maybe a scandal is exposed in the price fixing or manipulation.
I would like to see that maybe a scandal is exposed in the Catholic Church revealing that it is a cult run by misogynistic pedophiles who want to rule the world through fear. I would like to see a lot of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bornagainbiking View Post
Long pipe line better chance of springing a leak.
Hahahahahahah!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bornagainbiking View Post
It would be a smaller percentage of error if the refinery was parked next to the oil sands.
They'd still use a pipeline to get the finished product to various markets.
__________________
Winnipeg: June 2012 + other photos / random things
It's not about what you don't have—it's the little you've got, and how far you can run with it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2012, 1:26 PM
toaster toaster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 214
Canada has far more social elements to it than the US, like health care, our welfare system, etc. Why not include gas prices? Gas prices are not the be all end all. Canada's free market economy did not end when universal health care came into being. It will not happen when gas prices are properly regulated.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2012, 2:31 PM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is offline
optional
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 34,561
I am not arguing against it, I am just saying that for someone who regularly complains about socialism, to support what is the definition of socialism, is hypocritical. I have found it to be extremely common that anti-socialists are at the forefront of urging the government to restrict private enterprise in this way.

They're also the most likely to support the state's total control over the electricity industry to give us hydro rates that are far below cost, which is the reason we have that debt charge that they all love to hate.
__________________
Winnipeg: June 2012 + other photos / random things
It's not about what you don't have—it's the little you've got, and how far you can run with it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2012, 2:02 AM
Dwils01's Avatar
Dwils01 Dwils01 is offline
Urban Fanactic
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sault Ste. Marie
Posts: 2,108
Just thought I would post some prices.
Sault Ste. Marie 145.1
Wawa 146.9
White River 147.9
Marathon (on Highway 17) 153.9
Marathon (in town) 139.9 to 137.5
Terrace Bay 139.9
Schreiber 139.9

Sault Michigan 398.9/gallon or 105.4/litre

That's why I always get my gas in the states.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2012, 2:19 AM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is offline
optional
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 34,561
Yeah, avoiding Ontario's highway taxes is a great thing! Maybe if more people do it, they will just shift the burden onto everyone's income taxes instead! Then we'll have lower gas prices but less disposable income to spend on it!
__________________
Winnipeg: June 2012 + other photos / random things
It's not about what you don't have—it's the little you've got, and how far you can run with it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 2:21 PM
bornagainbiking bornagainbiking is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Hamilton
Posts: 758
Ontario Trades Tax ?

Historic new tax offers no benefit to hard working tradespeople

TORONTO, May 31, 2012 /CNW/ - The Ontario Construction Employers Coalition is calling a proposal to impose membership fees on the province's skilled trades workers and employers nothing short of an $84 million tax grab that should be scrapped.

"This is a huge amount of money the McGuinty government wants to pick from the pockets of Ontarians who work hard to make their living in the skilled trades," said Sean Reid, Coalition chair.

The McGuinty government's newly created Ontario College of Trades has asked for responses by Sunday, June 3rd, for proposed membership fees.

Note: I thought most of the trades have unions that they already pay dues to. Maybe include the unions and watch for the double dip!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 5:04 PM
flar's Avatar
flar flar is offline
..........
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ottawa-Gatineau
Posts: 10,269
They did the same thing to early childhood educators a few years ago. They made the Ontario College of Early Childhood Educators and imposed an membership fee, I think over $100. ECEs are mainly women and that fee is like several days' pay for many of them. The College of ECE offers zero benefit to it's members, it's just a piece of paper they need to get a job. Total cash grab.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2012, 7:58 PM
bornagainbiking bornagainbiking is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Hamilton
Posts: 758
Giant rip-off

This Aug long week-end, talk about price gouging. I was driving to Eastern Ontario and it was $1.26 on Friday in the Hamilton area. It was $1.16 in the Quinte area same day.
Must be some geographical barriers or something as the difference in distance was about 245 kms and the price variation was 10 cents.
On the way back today it was $1.29 in Pickering.
And still $1.16 in Trenton.
Nooooooooooo there is no back door dealing.
That is about 44 cents a gal.
For the sake of domestic tourism and the average Ontario family get realistic and drop the price.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2012, 8:04 PM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is offline
optional
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 34,561
$1.33 to $1.36 in Thunder Bay. If only we could eliminate taxes from gas, gas prices would go down about 20 cents for a few weeks before returning to their usual prices and then our income taxes could be raised to compensate the loss. A man can dream.
__________________
Winnipeg: June 2012 + other photos / random things
It's not about what you don't have—it's the little you've got, and how far you can run with it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2012, 10:47 PM
toaster toaster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 214
I don't mind paying more for gas when I know I won't have to when I go to the hopsital. It's part of the Canadian way. However, I do find it odd that Northern Ontario gas is much more expensive. When I leave from here in Ottawa to go to my parents up North, the difference is sometimes 25 cents+ per gallon.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:59 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.