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  #4961  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2012, 4:26 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Maybe time to get the rural areas out of the city in that case?
Where do I sign?

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They represent the bulk of that crowd. They seem to hate taxes the most.
I don't know about that; it's a mind-infestation right across the city. Nepean has an especially bad case, but no one is immune.
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  #4962  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2012, 4:27 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by McC View Post
good god S-Man, why would you want Orks on the transit system?!
They can't have any worse manners than half the existing riders!
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  #4963  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2012, 4:42 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by RTWAP View Post
Sorry, but I don't understand how you can think that. I'm not trying to be aggressive or anything. I'm just totally perplexed. The two downtown stations are shown with little more than a block between them. That's too close.
Between Campus and Lebreton, the average station density will be 875m. In downtown Montreal, the Metro stations are 450-500m apart. Similar situation obtains in Toronto.

Downtown East isn't east enough. A portal at Elgin would help justify orienting Downtown East to better interface with Bank Street.

People who actually use transit were telling the planners this basic stuff all along. We were ignored. Like we always are.

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You could move DTEast (Parliament?) a bit east and as long as the stations have an entry/exit at each end of the platform then the walking distance would be minimal. You'd have a portal on Queen just east of Bank.
There needs to be a portal AT Bank. That's one of the major annoyances of the existing Bus Crapid Transit system; the eastbound "Bank" station is at O'Connor effectively. Makes for shitty transfers to Bank Street major local routes. Transit riders know this. We told them this. They smiled and ignored us in the first round of sham consultations. They didn't even bother smiling in subsequent rounds.

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Furthermore, even if the station was moved east enough to pull the western exit farther from Bank St., you could just route the buses along Queen and have people transfer mid-block. There is nothing sacred about making the Bank/Queen intersection the focal point for a transfer station.
No, but it's hard to run Bank Street routes anywhere other than Bank. And running them on Queen means more turns in the routes, when OC Transpo needs to make the routes - for comfort's sake, among other reasons - more linear.

(That, and don't give in to the NCC's fantasy of a busless Wellington Street.)

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Straighten the line from Lees to Train
With or without a Hurdman Station, that segment should be straighter, absolutely.

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and have buses drop passengers off at Lees. The major problem I see is Lees would be end of the line for some routes and that usually implies a layover area, but Hurdman had plenty of space and is 30 seconds away so just continue to have Hurdman fulfill that role.
There is precious little room at Lees for it to take on what Hurdman takes on, even after you subtract the traffic that would be on the train now.
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  #4964  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 1:21 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...%202012-13.htm

Fare proposals - some of the key notes:

* Rural Express fares removed
* Students over 19 years of age would have to use adult passes, except when eligible for U-Passes (Algonquin and La Cite Collegiale need U-Passes ASAP then for full-time students)
* Reduced fares for seniors 65 years and older
* PRESTO fare per ride set near current ticket fare
* Ticket prices increase substantially, to the midpoint between the PRESTO fare and the cash fare, and will be eliminated for 2013
* PRESTO cars usable in other systems as well as pay-per-ride fares
* Otherwise, minor increases
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  #4965  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 3:38 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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How easy is it going to be for a visitor, casual, or spontaneous user of transit to get on a bus (or train), legally?

It's already gotten harder and harder as ticket vendors have disappeared.
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  #4966  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 7:34 AM
S-Man S-Man is offline
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Try finding a bus ticket to buy on Rideau Street at any time of the day, but it's especially hard at night. You think it would be easy, but it's not. If you're in front of the Bay, say, after having a drink with friends one evening, the nearest ticket you can buy is at the Mac's on the other side of King Edward. I was pointed there one time after visiting all the convenience stores in the market area.
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  #4967  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 11:18 AM
Chris-R Chris-R is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-Man View Post
Try finding a bus ticket to buy on Rideau Street at any time of the day, but it's especially hard at night. You think it would be easy, but it's not. If you're in front of the Bay, say, after having a drink with friends one evening, the nearest ticket you can buy is at the Mac's on the other side of King Edward. I was pointed there one time after visiting all the convenience stores in the market area.
Has the Zesty beside McDonald's stopped selling tickets? I last bought them there last year.
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  #4968  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 1:34 PM
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MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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You know, maybe it is time to buy and put in some ticket / presto kiosks. Just saying.
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  #4969  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 2:41 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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I believe vendors will sell PRESTO cards though? They could always put x number of trips on them there...
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  #4970  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 3:07 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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My opinion on the fare changes:

* The fares should be geo-coded? That way, the rural express fare could be charged based only on distance, not on bus route only. In that situation:

** All Rural Express routes should operate as operational extensions of Transitway routes (like the 99/245 now).
** Boarding in the morning on the Rural Express portion should require a Rural Express fare
** Once at a certain point (221 - Trim, 231 - Chapel Hill, 232 - Blair, 245 - Riverview, 283 - Bayshore), the routes convert into standard Transitway routes at regular fare.
** In the afternoon, they operate at regular fare up to that point.
** At that point, all passengers must show proof of Rural Express payment, or re-tap with the remainder paid (or topped up), to finish the route.
** In addition, the morning Inbound Rule should change so that all trips boarded within the Greenbelt - Baseline, Blair and Bayshore for most routes (not Tunney's Pasture to Hurdman) should be regular fare. Such boardings would only be permitted when someone else is alighting in most cases (a few exceptions apply). Route 69 would no longer require express fare in that case.
** In the afternoon, all boardings until the Greenbelt is crossed would still require express fare as it is too difficult to change fares midstream and the large number of buses that would need to check. (Exception: 69, which the express fare is dropped from anyway). Once beyond the Greenbelt, express routes become regular fare.

* Paper tickets should be eliminated as soon as PRESTO is available at all vendors, and until then should cost $1.35 each ($2.70 for a regular ride). They should continue to be accepted afterward until June 30, 2013 (or 6 months after the phaseout date, whichever is later).

* Encourage Algonquin College and La Cite Collegiale to implement U-Passes. There should be a way to override the system otherwise to allow all students to get student passes?

* The Seniors fare should be set at the same as the Child fare for clarity and reduction of different fare levels. However, the Wednesday free day should be removed.

* In order to avoid ID checking, would it be ideal to set a single cash fare for everyone? Although reduced pass and PRESTO fares would be available...
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  #4971  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 7:03 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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About the Para Transpo fares:

Para Transpo is a VERY expensive service to operate. IMO, it is important to reduce the use, and encourage use of fixed routes. Some changes I would make:

* Community Pass: reduce price slightly from $32 to $28/month. However, it would NOT be valid on Para Transpo (currently it has partial value).

* Anyone holding a Para Transpo certification should also automatically be permitted to ride at reduced fare with cash or PRESTO e-purse (same as child fare).

* Para Transpo fares should be increased as a result:
** Within Greenbelt or within suburban community - Same as express fare ($4.65 cash, $2.80 more than the regular service if their fares are reduced)
** Between inner area and suburbs - Express fare + $1.00 ($5.65 cash, $3.80 more than the regular service)
** No time-of-day differences (current 6:30 to 9:00 am increase removed)

* If the passenger ABSOLUTELY cannot get to a bus stop (i.e. during a snowstorm), those fares could be reduced - at the discretion of OC Transpo on a case-by-case or situational basis.
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  #4972  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 8:03 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
My opinion on the fare changes:

* The fares should be geo-coded? That way, the rural express fare could be charged based only on distance, not on bus route only. In that situation:

** All Rural Express routes should operate as operational extensions of Transitway routes (like the 99/245 now).
** Boarding in the morning on the Rural Express portion should require a Rural Express fare
** Once at a certain point (221 - Trim, 231 - Chapel Hill, 232 - Blair, 245 - Riverview, 283 - Bayshore), the routes convert into standard Transitway routes at regular fare.
** In the afternoon, they operate at regular fare up to that point.
** At that point, all passengers must show proof of Rural Express payment, or re-tap with the remainder paid (or topped up), to finish the route.
** In addition, the morning Inbound Rule should change so that all trips boarded within the Greenbelt - Baseline, Blair and Bayshore for most routes (not Tunney's Pasture to Hurdman) should be regular fare. Such boardings would only be permitted when someone else is alighting in most cases (a few exceptions apply). Route 69 would no longer require express fare in that case.
** In the afternoon, all boardings until the Greenbelt is crossed would still require express fare as it is too difficult to change fares midstream and the large number of buses that would need to check. (Exception: 69, which the express fare is dropped from anyway). Once beyond the Greenbelt, express routes become regular fare.

* Paper tickets should be eliminated as soon as PRESTO is available at all vendors, and until then should cost $1.35 each ($2.70 for a regular ride). They should continue to be accepted afterward until June 30, 2013 (or 6 months after the phaseout date, whichever is later).

* Encourage Algonquin College and La Cite Collegiale to implement U-Passes. There should be a way to override the system otherwise to allow all students to get student passes?

* The Seniors fare should be set at the same as the Child fare for clarity and reduction of different fare levels. However, the Wednesday free day should be removed.

* In order to avoid ID checking, would it be ideal to set a single cash fare for everyone? Although reduced pass and PRESTO fares would be available...
My two cents (which will be free once the penny is gone since it will round down to zero)

-On rural express fairs I have to agree with OC Transpo. For the small amount of riders that actually take those buses, it is better to just use a simpler fare structure. Why make everything so complex for a tiny amount of revenue. Right now a simple question like how much does it cost to take the bus requires a hugely complex answer. Makes things less attractive to new riders. Just make rural express, express and leave it at that.

-I have no opinion on the inbound, outbound rules as I would have consider the implications of that. Really much of this is only until LRT anyway...

-I agree with you 100% on paper tickets. Why bother once Presto is here. All keeping them is creating is a bunch of headlines about how much the price has gone up.

-I agree with you on U-Pass (although we would probably have to name it the Edu-pass or something)

-Senior and child fares the same is a good idea.

-I agree with the single cash fare. If people want discounts they should buy passes or "tickets" (by tickets I mean Presto). Also helps to discourage cash fares.
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  #4973  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 9:19 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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One issue will be that for occasional riders and tourists, they would have to pay cash if the tickets are removed. One solution I could think of is a special PRESTO card that is not personalized, but simply prepaid. It could have, say, 5 or 10 regular-fare or reduced-fare rides pre-installed. Such would not be compatible with express routes (they would have to pay the balance), but express routes are almost never used by tourists.

A mid-term goal should be to encourage outlying municipalities to get their regional systems onto PRESTO as well (although obviously the fares would be dramatically different).
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  #4974  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 10:44 PM
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gjhall gjhall is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
One issue will be that for occasional riders and tourists, they would have to pay cash if the tickets are removed. One solution I could think of is a special PRESTO card that is not personalized, but simply prepaid. It could have, say, 5 or 10 regular-fare or reduced-fare rides pre-installed. Such would not be compatible with express routes (they would have to pay the balance), but express routes are almost never used by tourists.

A mid-term goal should be to encourage outlying municipalities to get their regional systems onto PRESTO as well (although obviously the fares would be dramatically different).
I think the tourist issue is a bit of misnomer. In London, the Oyster Card is 5 pounds, refundable, and saves you so much money that it's worth buying and most people don't bother to return them. For this to work, you'd just need Presto Card dispensers and Presto loading stations at each Transitway station, at the Greyhound terminal and the Airport.

For those tourists that drive, hotels could be encouraged to hand out or sell Presto cards to their guests.
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  #4975  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2012, 12:03 AM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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Originally Posted by S-Man View Post
Try finding a bus ticket to buy on Rideau Street at any time of the day, but it's especially hard at night. You think it would be easy, but it's not. If you're in front of the Bay, say, after having a drink with friends one evening, the nearest ticket you can buy is at the Mac's on the other side of King Edward. I was pointed there one time after visiting all the convenience stores in the market area.
Ya I know; the biggest transit hub of the city and you can't even find a place where they sell tickets outside OC's kiosk hours. Go figure.
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  #4976  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2012, 12:13 AM
bradnixon bradnixon is offline
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
One issue will be that for occasional riders and tourists, they would have to pay cash if the tickets are removed. One solution I could think of is a special PRESTO card that is not personalized, but simply prepaid. It could have, say, 5 or 10 regular-fare or reduced-fare rides pre-installed. Such would not be compatible with express routes (they would have to pay the balance), but express routes are almost never used by tourists.

A mid-term goal should be to encourage outlying municipalities to get their regional systems onto PRESTO as well (although obviously the fares would be dramatically different).
My preferred option for occasional riders and tourists would be for OC Transpo to install fare vending machines at each Transitway station.

These would be exactly like the O-Train ticket vending machines that currently exist at O-Train stations (which are themselves just re-purposed pay-and-display machines).

These machines would sell single ride tickets (same as cash fare) or day passes, but would allow customers to pay with credit cards (as is the case with the O-Train ticket machines).

This eliminates the requirement for customers to have exact change which in my opinion is a significant inconvenience of using transit from an occasional rider's perspective.
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  #4977  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2012, 1:32 AM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
My preferred option for occasional riders and tourists would be for OC Transpo to install fare vending machines at each Transitway station.

These would be exactly like the O-Train ticket vending machines that currently exist at O-Train stations (which are themselves just re-purposed pay-and-display machines).

These machines would sell single ride tickets (same as cash fare) or day passes, but would allow customers to pay with credit cards (as is the case with the O-Train ticket machines).

This eliminates the requirement for customers to have exact change which in my opinion is a significant inconvenience of using transit from an occasional rider's perspective.
Just like the Montreal metro. We're way overdue for this type of system.
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  #4978  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2012, 2:27 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Ya I know; the biggest transit hub of the city and you can't even find a place where they sell tickets outside OC's kiosk hours. Go figure.
It's easy to figure: OC Transpo hates its customers. Always has.
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  #4979  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2012, 3:53 PM
Luker Luker is offline
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NCC wants downtown station to be under the NAC not Rideau Mall (more to come):

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/plannin...760/story.html
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  #4980  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2012, 4:47 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luker View Post
NCC wants downtown station to be under the NAC not Rideau Mall (more to come):

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/plannin...760/story.html
Conclusion: downtown west of the canal needs 3 stations, not 2. I agree with the NAC here, but the Rideau Centre should not lose out as a result, and nor should mid-downtown businesses.

The locations should be:

Station 1 - Between Lyon and Bay

Station 2 - Under Bank Street

Station 3 - Between Metcalfe and Elgin

Station east of canal - Rideau Centre at west entrance, also extending into the Byward Market near Dalhousie

I estimate the additional cost would be about $50 million, which could easily be raised by local businesses.
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