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  #721  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2012, 9:00 PM
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Innersoul1 Innersoul1 is offline
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Tropics, dude, you are fighting a losing battle here man.

Consistently, baseball has failed in this city. Now, that's not to say that soccer hasn't because it had. But I don't think that baseball has nearly as much of a draw, or potential draw that soccer does.

Let's look at a few factors with regard to the MLS in Canada. Soccer has been successful for decades in the cities of Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. I would suggest that this is based on two factors. Firstly, that they have all previously had soccer franchises that have been well supported for years. The Impact in Montreal, the Lynx in Toronto and the Whitecaps in Vancouver. This has created a generational support of the team along with the fact that they are familiar to all of the cities. Secondly, all three of these cities have large populations of immigrants who often come from soccer mad countries. This leads to a lot of support from that alone. Each of these cities have used the popularity of the support to get fans out for games. I would go so far as to suggest a third factor being that each of the franchises run a development program at the grassroots level as a means of developing soccer and soccer players in their respective cities (The Calgary Storm were quite successful using this model).

All of the three Canadian teams have used the model of building small stadia with the potential of expansion for their success. Albeit, Vancouver had no intentions of being at Swangard long term, they hoped to build an water front stadium that never came to fruition. Now they are VERY comfortable in BC Place where there are able to somewhat create an intimate soccer specific environment. Toronto scored well with BMO Field (built for $72 million) having a capacity of just under 22,000. It's a great stadium but many would suggest that they are close to out growing it. Montreal's Saputo stadium has also served them well and the during the Impact's tenure in the A-League. However, the capacity of 13,000 is too small so a current expansion will take them to a capacity of just over 20,000 by June. Plus, each of the teams have been able to draw large numbers at larger stadia showing that soccer can be HUGE and can be widely supported.

I mention the above because one of the factors that I believe have plagued soccer teams in Calgary has been the lack of a suitable playing venue. As I have said before, Calgarian's are fickle especially when it comes to weather. There is not desire to sit outside in the wind, rain or snow for soccer or even baseball games. I strongly believe that professional soccer could be successful in Calgary if we had a proper stadium that with a proper playing surface . The Storm failed in part because bleachers and port-a-potties don't cut it and the Mustangs failed because Astro turf ruins the game.

I would suggest that soccer as some have suggested above is a lot of running with moments of brilliance. So the experience and atmosphere of being at games is essential. Part of that experience is created by fan clubs or ultras . In Montreal the Ultras, in Toronto the U-Sector and Red Patch Boys and in Vancouver the Southsiders. These groups with their chats, and dances help to build the atmosphere.

Of the Canadian teams Vancouver has the largest development to undertake. The pitch at BC Place has been criticized and they haven't had the consistent numbers that Montreal and Toronto have had. That being said their geographical location in "Cascadia" has created some natural rivalries with Seattle and Portland. That is HUGE.

I honestly, think that at some point we could have an MLS team but first we need to build the game. We can't expect to have a stadium and throw a team in and have success. I really thing that we would have the support in Calgary especially if we got corporate Calgary behind the process.
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  #722  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2012, 9:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Innersoul1 View Post
Tropics, dude, you are fighting a losing battle here man.
It is not a battle, it is a discussion. I could honestly not care less if they put a MLS team into Calgary or they don't. If people want to risk their money on it go ahead, have at it. I would rather there are no tax dollars spent on it, otherwise go ahead and buy a team, build a stadium, prove me wrong.

The only thing certain is that "talk" is not going to prove anything on either side, only action will.
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  #723  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2012, 10:24 PM
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Say what? Do you have numbers to back this up? I find this a bit amusing to me honest. Billions watch the world cup, not to mention Champions league, Euro cup etc. Even the leagues in Europe and other parts of the world have huge viewer ship. Stadiums that seat 70k plus full for every game. Its not even a fair comparison. Soccer destroys baseball as far as fans and viewer ship or anything for that matter.. Maybe in your 'baseball bubble' this is true but cmon now. Just wow..
ok i will admit that my comment was written wrong. it was meant as an anecdote on the people i know personally.

But you cannot say billions of people watch the sport in the world and then claim it would work in Calgary where it doesnt fall within the bif 4 sports. different countries/cultures watch different sports

I also said i didnt want to have this debate because its useless arguing over what sport is better so i will not comment on it again. Everyone has a personal preference to what sports they enjoy. I love baseball, i have a lot of friends who really enjoy baseball. Me and some friends are planning a trip to the NE US to watch a few ball games in different cities. I've watched soccer live (EP League) and on TV. Watching soccer live is just like baseball, its slow but you go there for the experience of the crowd than the action on the field. Very enjoyable.

Could Calgary support an MLS team? i dont know what salaries and such are but they could
Could Calgary support an MLB team? NO, way too much money for a team we couldnt draw 50,000 fans a game (neither could we for soccer)
Could Calgary support a AA or AAA farm team? Absolutely!
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  #724  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2012, 10:46 PM
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MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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AAA ball would be hard here without more western canada teams. Travel costs add up for both sides. Edmonton was the last hold out, but the lack of other Canadian teams made it hard. Are there even any AAA out east anymore?

I would support tax payers supporting soccer or baseball stadia up to a certain price (less than $30 or 50 million?) in exchange for location agreements of 10 years or so.

There is a case to be made for community amentity up to a point.
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  #725  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2012, 11:33 PM
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AAA ball would be hard here without more western canada teams. Travel costs add up for both sides. Edmonton was the last hold out, but the lack of other Canadian teams made it hard. Are there even any AAA out east anymore?

I would support tax payers supporting soccer or baseball stadia up to a certain price (less than $30 or 50 million?) in exchange for location agreements of 10 years or so.

There is a case to be made for community amentity up to a point.
That is definately a problem. there are some in the PCL league that are in Colorado.
In terms of Canadian minor league teams, there are the Vancouver Giants and one out of ottawa area (both low A ball i think)

But yes its been done before in Calgary and Alberta in general. not sure how well it would go (we all know about sports in calgary that arent high level pro teams and/or not hockey) but i know i would be there often! there were probably 2,000 people at Vipers games on a given day and thats without any players who anyone had ever heard of. Im sure with MLB prosepects, you could attract MLB fans
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  #726  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2012, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Innersoul1 View Post
one of the factors that I believe have plagued soccer teams in Calgary has been the lack of a suitable playing venue. As I have said before, Calgarian's are fickle especially when it comes to weather. There is not desire to sit outside in the wind, rain or snow for soccer or even baseball games. I strongly believe that professional soccer could be successful in Calgary if we had a proper stadium that with a proper playing surface . The Storm failed in part because bleachers and port-a-potties don't cut it and the Mustangs failed because Astro turf ruins the game.
Agreed 100%. It's also why I see baseball never doing well here. Although I don't think it's that Calgarians are fickle - it's that our bloody weather is fickle. The only outdoor sport that remotely works here is Football, and that's because people are used to Football being played in the snow half the time (hyperbole).

When it can snow literally any month of the year, and the evenings go down to the single digits - not many people are gonna sit outside to watch a "summer" sport. Especially when it is 25 when the game starts. We tried baseball for a couple of years here but it got almost impossible to dress for without bringing a freaking suitcase.

Lacrosse is kinda working, because we play in an indoor league. I bet it would also fail if played outdoors during the "summer".
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  #727  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 8:38 PM
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Just thought that I would add this quote from a recent TSN article. It quotes the MLS commish on criteria for expansion.

He identified three key factors that MLS evaluates in potential expansion targets. Among them: an ownership group financially capable of operating the team, a stadium seating between 20,000 and 25,000, and a market that can draw roughly that many fans and generate corporate support.
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  #728  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 4:19 PM
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Leaked images of preliminary designs for the new YEG arena. If anything close to this comes to fruition up there I definitely don't want to see some faux-historicist Stampede themed bullshit in our new arena:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...179/story.html



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  #729  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 4:20 PM
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^ Bar has been set
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  #730  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 4:24 PM
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^ Bar has been set
Dare I say "Challenge Accepted" Edmonton?

I'm still scared we'll go historic style...
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  #731  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 4:30 PM
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^giddy up.

Yeehaw
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  #732  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 4:40 PM
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Can't wait for the "chuckwagon dome" down here...
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  #733  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 7:11 PM
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Can't wait for the "chuckwagon dome" down here...
lol, or a damn cowboy hat.
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  #734  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 7:21 PM
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Dare I say "Challenge Accepted" Edmonton?

I'm still scared we'll go historic style...
For everyone's sake, I hope that the urge gets resisted.

From a city that once openly mused about changing casual Fridays to country and western Fridays (wasn't Bronconnier [sic?] around at the time?), hopefully the city is now mature enough get past the urge to historicize.
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  #735  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 8:05 PM
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Oh lord, if that is what Edmonton is playing with I am pretty sure that we are screwed. That building is cutting edge! I looks totally amazing. I wonder if the Flames are ambitious enough to follow suit or if the lack of funding from the city will be the achilles heel of our project.
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  #736  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 8:14 PM
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The mothership has landed. Gorgeous, let the cost cutting and neutering of the design begin.
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  #737  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 8:22 PM
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It kinda looks like a porkchop from TRON
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  #738  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 8:58 PM
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For everyone's sake, I hope that the urge gets resisted.

From a city that once openly mused about changing casual Fridays to country and western Fridays (wasn't Bronconnier [sic?] around at the time?), hopefully the city is now mature enough get past the urge to historicize.
People come expecting a Stampede city with a modern twist. I say go with it.

No way edmonton can build that Arena with the money they are talking about. Worst yet is they now set the bar so even cutting 100M off the budget will be a massive let down.
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  #739  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 9:01 PM
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I know I will raise the ire of many on this discussion- but I don't think a single public dollar should be spent on either the yeg or yyc arenas. Education, health care, police, infrastructure- sure. But entertainment should never receive public funding.
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  #740  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2012, 9:05 PM
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I know I will raise the ire of many on this discussion- but I don't think a single public dollar should be spent on either the yeg or yyc arenas. Education, health care, police, infrastructure- sure. But entertainment should never receive public funding.
I would make an exception if the arena would be the cornerstone of the revitalization of a blighted area, although even then tax abatement might be better than outright funding.
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