HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     
Welcome to the SkyscraperPage Forum

Since 1999, the SkyscraperPage Forum has been one of the most active skyscraper enthusiast communities on the web. The global membership discusses development news and construction activity on projects from around the world, alongside discussions on urban design, architecture, transportation and many other topics. Welcome!

You are currently browsing as a guest. Register with the SkyscraperPage Forum and join this growing community of skyscraper enthusiasts. Registering has benefits such as fewer ads, the ability to post messages, private messaging and more.

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2012, 4:58 AM
mello's Avatar
mello mello is offline
Babylon falling
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,024
LA's Measure R - why haven't others followed suit?

Here in San Diego we are struggling to get an 8 mile extension of an existing light rail line built that mostly runs along a Amtrak/freight right of way. This crucial project has been postponed and will not be completed until 2018. Meanwhile LA County passed Measure R and seems to have reaped an "InstaRailBoom."

For those of you not familiar with Measure R it is a half cent sales tax in the county that is funding all of the lines currently under construction there. To me this seems like a no brainer, why aren't other US cities copying the LA model on this one?
__________________
<<<<< I'm loving this economic "recovery" >>>>>
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2012, 5:09 AM
mhays mhays is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,092
Some are. Seattle for example. It's not perfect but it's pretty good, and voters have voted another 20 billion.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2012, 5:41 AM
northbay's Avatar
northbay northbay is offline
Another day in Paradise
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Cotati - The Hub of Sonoma County
Posts: 1,719
LA was hardly the first to institute a transportation sales tax. I think every county in the Bay Area has a transportation sales tax. Here in Sonoma and Marin Counties we just passed a quarter cent tax to fund the new SMART commuter train. (On top of the quarter cent we already pay in Sonoma to fund/accelerate the freeway widening).

A quick online search reveals Fulton County in Georgia, Riverside in CA, Boulder County in CO, St Charles MO, Charleston County in SC, St. Louis County etc. etc. all have transportation sales taxes and some have been collecting them for DECADES.

The reason they aren't as ubiquitous as you may wish is America's distaste of any (new) tax.
__________________
"I firmly believe, from what I have seen, that this is the chosen spot of all this Earth as far as Nature is concerned." - Luther Burbank on Sonoma County.

Pictures of Santa Rosa, So. Co.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2012, 7:41 AM
ocman ocman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris
Posts: 1,792
Measure R isn't really responsible for LA's instarailboom. It's more that LA decided to dedicate itself to having an instarailboom, as opposed to most other cities where transportation isn't as pressing of an issue or the focus is still of roads.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2012, 2:51 PM
202_Cyclist's Avatar
202_Cyclist 202_Cyclist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,262
I posted this under the City Compilations section and someone else mentioned it there but one of the big differences that can't be overlooked is political leadership and how each respective region views itself.

Former mayor, Tom Bradley's leadership was very important in getting the Red line built and the commitment of Antonio Villariagosa to the current rail expansion has been very important. LA County has 10M - 11M people and LA and the surrounding counties have approximately 18M people. From what I've read (http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/genera...E5NTE1Mzc3NA==), San Diego has long had a conflicted view of itself between a large metropolitan city and a small-town coastal area. San Diego County in recent decades has also been more politically conservative than Los Angeles County.

I also think auto congestion on LA's highways is worse than that of San Diego. LA residents have been more willing to tax themselves to pay for alternatives to highway congestion.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 4:33 PM
citywatch citywatch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,574
mello, I believe SD actually built a surface transit line----the red trains that run towards tijuana----before LA got its blue line train, which goes between dtla & long beach, in 1990. SD also started to revive its dt in a really significant way around 10 yrs before the same thing started to happen in LA.

I think the greater congestion of streets & fwys in LA compared with SD finally forced more ppl to take the need for better transit more seriously. So if only out of desperation, they approved the transit tax a few yrs ago. If you look back at the history of similar taxes on the ballot, going back to the 1970s, ppl in LA----esp out in the burbs, or throughout the county----never gave even a simple majority of their support to the idea of increasing sales taxes for transit.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 4:36 PM
Kingofthehill's Avatar
Kingofthehill Kingofthehill is offline
International
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oslo
Posts: 3,874
Because, obviously, LA is the only city that really wants new mass transit!

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 5:23 PM
Don B. Don B. is offline
...
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 9,122
The Phoenix metro area started actively seeking light rail funding in the mid 1990s. Two local successful votes (Tempe in 1996 and Phoenix in 2000) helped paved the way, followed by a successful Maricopa county-wide vote in 2004:

September 1996: Tempe voters approve a permanent half-cent sales tax dedicated to transit. Major investment study initiated for the 20-mile light rail starter line.

March 2000: Phoenix voters approve a four-tenths cent sales tax increase to fund transit over 20 years.

November 2004: Maricopa County voters pass Proposition 400, which provides funding for additional transportation improvements Valleywide, including 27.7 miles of light rail extensions to the planned system.

Latest milestone of Phoenix's light rail system:

October 2011: METRO experiences its highest ridership month on record serving more than 1.25 million riders, resulting in an average of 45,000 daily. City of Phoenix and METRO receives a $1 million federal grant to conduct an Alternatives Analysis on the South Central Phoenix corridor.

Source: http://www.valleymetro.org/about_lig...tones_archive/

--don
__________________
My website:

www.aroundphoenix.com
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 6:22 PM
brickell's Avatar
brickell brickell is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: County of Dade
Posts: 8,515
Miami passed a transportation1/2 cent sales tax 10 years ago. They're talking about repealing it now, because absolutely nothing that was promised has materialized.
__________________
That's what did it in the end. Not the money, not the music, not even the guns. That is my heroic flaw: my excess of civic pride.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 6:45 PM
LtBk LtBk is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 451
What happened?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 7:03 PM
wong21fr's Avatar
wong21fr wong21fr is online now
Reluctant Hobbesian
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Denver
Posts: 10,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by mello View Post
For those of you not familiar with Measure R it is a half cent sales tax in the county that is funding all of the lines currently under construction there. To me this seems like a no brainer, why aren't other US cities copying the LA model on this one?
Sure, just because LA copied Denver's FasTracks since California is out of original ideas.

Joking aside, there are a number of cities that have passed sales tax measures to accelerate a build-out of mass transit systems. Salt Lake City, Seattle, Denver are just a few of them.
__________________
"You don't strike, you just go to work everyday and do your job real half-ass. That's the American way!" -Homer Simpson

All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field. ~Albert Einstein


Last edited by wong21fr; Apr 16, 2012 at 8:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 7:23 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami
Posts: 1,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
What happened?
Elected officials got a hold of the money and used it all for all sorts of other purposes (revamping bus stops, adding wheelchair ramps, repaving roads (seriously), maintaining current metrorail fleet...).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 8:10 PM
mello's Avatar
mello mello is offline
Babylon falling
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,024
I started this thread because LA is experiencing the largest rail building boom of any US metro area in the last 30 years. I understand that the Bay Area built a lot of lines from the 60's through the 80's but what is going on in Los Angeles right now is pretty amazing. The formula seems pretty simple, get the politicians to use the money properly after the tax is passed and presto rail lines are sprouting up all over the LA basin.
__________________
<<<<< I'm loving this economic "recovery" >>>>>

Last edited by mello; Apr 16, 2012 at 9:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 9:56 PM
Illithid Dude's Avatar
Illithid Dude Illithid Dude is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Santa Monica / New York City
Posts: 2,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mello View Post
I started this thread because LA is experiencing the largest rail building boom of any metro area in the last 30 years.
Any metro area in the U.S. There are dozens of places throughout the world with metro construction activity that would put L.A. to shame.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 10:06 PM
Nexis4Jersey's Avatar
Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In the Pascack Valley
Posts: 1,668
I wish the East Coast cities would , we have over 290 Billion in backlogged projects...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2012, 6:20 AM
HurricaneHugo's Avatar
HurricaneHugo HurricaneHugo is offline
Category Five
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,561
I'm almost sure San Diego passed a half-cent tax towards Public Transportation projects and that's how we're paying for the mid-coast extension.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2012, 1:32 PM
min-chi-cbus min-chi-cbus is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by mello View Post
Here in San Diego we are struggling to get an 8 mile extension of an existing light rail line built that mostly runs along a Amtrak/freight right of way. This crucial project has been postponed and will not be completed until 2018. Meanwhile LA County passed Measure R and seems to have reaped an "InstaRailBoom."

For those of you not familiar with Measure R it is a half cent sales tax in the county that is funding all of the lines currently under construction there. To me this seems like a no brainer, why aren't other US cities copying the LA model on this one?
Most people will point to the fact that LRT can not sustain itself, and is a "boondoggle". To get the sales tax increase support you need to win the voters over, and the voters -- right or wrong -- need to understand the true ST and LT benefits and implications of having a REGIONAL rail network.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2012, 5:00 PM
MSP's Avatar
MSP MSP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 810
We have a quarter cent sales tax in the Minneapolis metro dedicated to transit. We have one light rail line under construction(Central/Green line), and one in preliminary design(SW corridor).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2012, 9:21 PM
urbanactivist's Avatar
urbanactivist urbanactivist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,232
In Houston, the exact opposite is taking place. The city continues to "borrow" from the sales tax revenues that are supposed to go exclusively to METRO and for transit use. Which leaves METRO begging the Feds for rail funding...

http://blog.chron.com/thelist/2012/0...es-on-transit/
__________________
Photo Threads for Memphis, Dallas, Ft. Worth, Galveston (before Ike), Kansas City,Houston, more Houston
Little Rock, and New Orleans, cont'd.

For politics, check out my blog Texas Leftist
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2012, 1:16 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is online now
vertical
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: unconventionally bicoastal
Posts: 10,633
LA has a mayor who is earnestly, honestly a supporter of transit - not because he wants lucrative contracts to hand out to contributors, and not because he wants to buy votes from lower-income communities; but because he understands that an efficient transit system will give people time-effective alternatives to the freeways and will pull LA out of its economic doldrums.

Because his support for transit is honest and principled, Villaraigosa can go to the people and successfully convince them that they need to pay more in taxes to support a transit system. Obviously LA has a lot of educated, well-traveled people who have seen first-hand how transit systems allow for fast efficient movement around a city. Obviously there were naysayers but Villaraigosa's principled support allowed him to build a coalition to shush the naysayers.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
   
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:14 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.