Originally Posted by Jdawgboy
This whole debate really boils down to political ideology in the end. There are always going to be differences in opinions on that so we need to keep in mind when we discuss issues like these.
It all comes down to Democratic/Liberal ideology verses, Libertarian ideology. Both want a free society but the means to achieve that are different.
Libertarians want little to no government interference and in some cases no government period. Liberals believe government is needed to help achieve freedom of all.
You can agree or disagree all you want about city ordinances and laws and you can agree or disagree about how these ordinances and laws infringe on personal freedoms or help society better itself, but in the end it basically goes to how you feel government should be.
I am a Liberal Democrat as is most of the central core of Austin, and I believe the plastic bag ban is needed and important to better ourselves and our environment. You can disagree with me but that will not change my reasoning nor would I change your reasoning so we can go on and on and argue but what is the point. This thread in the end is pointless unless it is to argue ideology in city politics.
i think that sometimes libertarians are right, and sometimes liberals are right. i don't see why anyone should just support an ideology all just because it is their ideology. the real issue is the human condition over all these political asinine affiliations that we create, i.e. ideologies.
i absolutely and 100% think its best to support common sense over some political affiliation. to argue over a law because its not libertarian is a silly way of taking issue with it. just like arguing over a lifestyle because it's not conservative. you should argue over a law only if it is plain and simply wrong. if the law isn't affecting anybody why even bother taking issue with it? that's how i feel about this plastic bag ban and that's how i feel about this smoking ban. use common sense... neither of these are needed. so who cares?
at some point if we can understand a little more as humans, these types of laws would be obsolete. we probably won't smoke anymore because there is no real need for it other than looking cool. we probably won't use plastic bags either. i mean.... why would anybody defend those types of laws? because it targets businesses? are they being targeted in the droves? is it really a huge issue? if so, then all of us... not just libertarians, but also conservatives and liberals should take issue with this. there are other more important issues at hand. why is this issue in particular a big deal?
this is where i tend to draw the line with libertarians. because i mostly see myself as libertarian... but then i question if i am because most of them argue over any simple mandate that probably doesn't even affect them negatively and that means everyone runs the risk of some injustice because some law may get shot down that would've otherwise protected them.
libertarians mostly follow this ayn rand ideology of to each its own. it just gets way too complicated from there on that i feel no need to go that route. and it also makes you run the risk of looking like an asshole. why bother going that route? and i'm saying this as a young christian fellow raised by a pastor, who views the world liberally but can also lean libertarian. i really don't know what i am politically. but what i try to do is make the most sense i possibly can. aren't we all?