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Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > SSP: Local Hamilton > Downtown & City of Hamilton

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  #1701  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 6:33 PM
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It's such a great moment after what 20 years that the Lister Block is finally back open to the public
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  #1702  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 9:26 AM
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Went in there tonight during the art crawl and it was quite the feeling to stand in the arcade for the first time since I last stood in it 2 years ago. I never would have imagined that the building, being in the shape it was, could actually be restored. It was quite breathtaking for me.
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  #1703  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 11:33 AM
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So my next question is: Now what? Sure, we've got Tourism Hamilton in there, but what about the other five floors?
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  #1704  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2012, 6:01 PM
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They really need private sector tenants in there to maintain the street-level connection. Without that, this is a government building that'll be closed by sundown any day of the week and earlier on weekends (TH is apparently open until 3pm Saturdays, closed Sundays).

The big question is who'll chose to rent at the LB's super-premium rates when there are so many options elsewhere downtown (including buying). My guess is that they'll settle on an "appropriate" tenant and massively discount the rate.
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  #1705  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2012, 6:02 PM
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Excellent to see the building return to life, though.
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  #1706  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2012, 8:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattgrande View Post
So my next question is: Now what? Sure, we've got Tourism Hamilton in there, but what about the other five floors?
Community Services will take all the upper floors and the Real Estate office is working on getting retail space, apparently they want a cafe and a barber shop.
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  #1707  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 12:01 AM
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The asking rent is almost triple the going downtown rate of comparable space like Jackson. that is the deal the City made with LiUNA to make this restoration happen.

One year later than the proposed opening date, the ground floor has one occupant, TH. I saw that most of the remaining retail spaces still need a lot of work to be done.

There are two holes in the streetwall on each side of the Lister, and I don't think the Balfour or the Thomas building will ever be replaced.

We paid dearly for this. The restoration is fabulous although hugely over priced, and it took 3 levels of taxpayers government to make it happen, I hope it's worth it.

Prove it by getting some serious retailers in the mall. I doubt we will see anything but perhaps a coffee/newsstand shop and not much else. They'll have to charge 8$ a coffee to cover the rent.
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  #1708  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 12:46 PM
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Does anyone have any info on what's happening with the Thomas Building? It certainly looks like it's becoming a parking lot...
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  #1709  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 4:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattgrande View Post
Does anyone have any info on what's happening with the Thomas Building? It certainly looks like it's becoming a parking lot...
They dismantlement the front facade piece by piece and numbered them and put them into storage . Then they the demolished it. From a friend who worked on it, the building was mostly a wood structure that was mostly wet a dry rotted to a point of not being repairable due to neglect. They said that their plan was to build a new building on that site, after the Lister Block was complete using the old front facade.
Only time will tell if they will do this. They have been good until now keeping people from parking there.
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  #1710  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 6:44 PM
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Does anyone know which department is responsible for rental of the retail spaces? I asked someone from Tourism Hamilton on friday but they didn't know.

I know the equivalent lease rate for the City offices portion is triple market rate, but do you really think they'd ask the same to rent to private businesses? Noone in their right mind would do that with their own money, and there are enough vacant storefronts and offices that are going for market value.
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  #1711  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2012, 8:22 PM
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Real Estate office.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
Community Services will take all the upper floors and the Real Estate office is working on getting retail space, apparently they want a cafe and a barber shop.
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  #1712  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LikeHamilton View Post
They dismantlement the front facade piece by piece and numbered them and put them into storage . Then they the demolished it. From a friend who worked on it, the building was mostly a wood structure that was mostly wet a dry rotted to a point of not being repairable due to neglect. They said that their plan was to build a new building on that site, after the Lister Block was complete using the old front facade.
Only time will tell if they will do this. They have been good until now keeping people from parking there.
Yeah, I heard the facade was stored somewhere... Hopefully we hear something good soon.
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  #1713  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Dalton View Post
I know the equivalent lease rate for the City offices portion is triple market rate, but do you really think they'd ask the same to rent to private businesses? Noone in their right mind would do that with their own money, and there are enough vacant storefronts and offices that are going for market value.
The assumptions I've seen built into the June 2008 Agreement of Purchase estimated that "the market rate for commercial retail space would be approximately $25.50 per square foot on a gross basis. Therefore, if 2,000 square feet of ground floor space of the rehabilitated Lister Block was leased out for retail purposes, the City could expect to earn approximately $51,000 in annual gross rent."

One detail that I didn't twig to until just now is the mention of gross rent, for which definitions may vary.
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Last edited by thistleclub; Apr 17, 2012 at 12:11 PM. Reason: Updated Link
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  #1714  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 4:40 PM
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Gore buillding ground floor retail rent is $14/sf and has sat empty since it opened.
http://www.bbsrealty.com/property-details/1411

100 Main E. ground floor is $16/sf and even the second floor is only $11/sf

$25.50/sf in the Lister will be a tough sell. The city will have to subsidize it (cost the taxpayers even more) by about $12-15/sf or it will sit empty. Typically the novelty of these projects is enough to at least have open full or near full occupancy to begin with, just like the Eaton Centre did in 1991-2. The fact that the spaces other than TH aren't totally finished is telling that there wasn't much interest.

By comparison, street, retail rent in First Canada Place is $33/sq. My guess is the City will eventually fill the ground floor retail with office cubes.
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  #1715  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 2:43 PM
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FYI...

This weekend is Doors Open for Hamilton and the Lister Block will be open for the public. There will be guided tours at 10:30am and 12:30pm.
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  #1716  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 3:54 PM
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Are they opening the whole building this time or just the arcade again? I'd really like to see how they did on the 2nd floor and some of the upper floors.
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  #1717  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 4:40 PM
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I beleive I read a tweet from Tourism Hamilton that they well have atleast the second floor open!
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  #1718  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 8:55 PM
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It has been open for more than a week already with regular Monday to Friday hours. I was in there this past Monday.
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  #1719  
Old Posted May 25, 2012, 8:02 PM
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Ground floor listing

Seems as though some units on the ground floor are now up for lease:
http://www.bbsrealty.com/property-details/1756/

Here's hoping some PRIVATE company/business moves in...
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  #1720  
Old Posted May 26, 2012, 4:07 AM
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^ ya right. hold your breathe. more than 2x the going rent... TH isn't even open on Saturdays!..... when are tourists staying in our hotels? Weekends anyone? It is locked shut dark after M-F 430p. Union hours.

Last edited by realcity; May 26, 2012 at 6:47 PM.
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