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  #1  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2012, 10:11 PM
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Cleveland's inner city is growing faster than as young adults flock downtown

Cleveland's inner city is growing faster than its suburbs as young adults flock downtown


April 27, 2012

By Robert L. Smith



Read More: http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...y_is_gorn.html

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.....

Twentysomethings are creating a new and potentially powerful housing pattern as they snap up downtown apartments as fast as they become available. Thanks largely to young professionals, the inner city is growing faster than the outer city and the county for the first time in modern history, a recent Case Western Reserve University study found. Neighborhood life is blossoming on blocks once dominated by office workers and commuters, and people are clamoring for dog parks.

- Not to say anyone will mistake downtown Cleveland for Chicago. Even after two decades of unprecedented growth, the population within walking distance of Public Square approaches only 10,000 people (compared to 29,000 in Chicago's Loop). Many urban planners see 20,000 to 25,000 residents the threshold for creating a natural, self-sustaining downtown neighborhood, one that attracts grocery stores and schools.

- Meanwhile, the newcomers are too few to offset a larger exodus. Cleveland lost 17 percent of its people last decade as nearly one in five residents left the city. Still, there are several facets to the downtown renaissance that researchers find striking. First off, a rising center city bucks the trend in a region accustomed to relentless sprawl. Secondly, the ripples are spilling into other neighborhoods. The lure of downtown, coupled with a tight rental housing market, is sending people into Tremont, Ohio City and even Asiatown, Piiparinen believes.

- Downtown's population nearly doubled from 1990 to 2010, to reach 9,098 people, Piiparinen found, and young adults drove the growth. Between 2000 and 2010, he said, more than 2,000 people younger than age 25 moved into the neighborhood. They joined a community nearly devoid of people in their 40s. By the time someone turns 35, they are likely living elsewhere, the data shows, suggesting the neighborhood has limited appeal. "The exodus of the child-rearing age group may neutralize the gain made with the young," Piiparinen warns in his report. He suspects the city needs to offer a broader range of amenities, including a quality elementary school and safer streets, to create a stable neighborhood.

- Others say not to worry. Jim Russell, an economic geographer specializing in the demographics of Rust Belt cities, says a more diverse neighborhood may develop naturally. He suspects older folks and families will be more willing to move into a downtown astir with young professionals. Meanwhile, the current rate of churn indicates twentysomethings will replace the departing thirtysomethings. "I think, for the most part, age doesn't matter," Russell said. "What you want is more people downtown. That will attract other demographics. People will feel safer." After a 2010 census filled with bad news, he said, Clevelanders should enjoy the good tidings.

.....



http://www.metrotrends.org/spotlight/index.cfm











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  #2  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2012, 11:12 PM
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Excellent news for Cleveland. It's quite a silver lining to its sad story over the decades. Pittsburgh is seeing similar trends with younger people flocking to its downtown. Not to mention, both Pittsburgh and Allegheny County saw year-over-year gains starting in 2008 or 2009. In fact, Allegheny County's growth of almost 4,000 residents from July 2010 to July 2011 was the most year-over-year in several decades. Perhaps at some point in time Cleveland will start to experience this.

Not an apples to oranges coparison here; both are midwestern rust belt cities with similar demographics and what not...
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Old Posted Apr 29, 2012, 11:57 PM
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It's great to see Cleveland's downtown headed in the right direction, and I hate to say it but...I don't quite see a 4,800 person increase over 20 years as "flocking to downtown". Maybe it's just the title I have an issue with.
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Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonboy1983 View Post
Excellent news for Cleveland. It's quite a silver lining to its sad story over the decades. Pittsburgh is seeing similar trends with younger people flocking to its downtown. Not to mention, both Pittsburgh and Allegheny County saw year-over-year gains starting in 2008 or 2009. In fact, Allegheny County's growth of almost 4,000 residents from July 2010 to July 2011 was the most year-over-year in several decades. Perhaps at some point in time Cleveland will start to experience this.

Not an apples to oranges coparison here; both are midwestern rust belt cities with similar demographics and what not...
I just hate to split hairs here, but even with its similarities to Midwestern cities, Pittsburgh is an interior Northeastern/Appalachian city. But I do think that Pittsburgh could serve as a model for Cleveland here.
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Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 12:44 AM
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That may be some folks association, but there are numerous others who consider Western PA as part of the midwest. I realize it is physically in Appalachia, but I just don't like associating Pittsburgh with it.

Besides, it's part of the Great Lakes Megalopolis... Maybe I should've just said it's part of that...

Referring to the post before that, I would call that "flocking." It's a substantial increase nonetheless...
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Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TarHeelJ View Post
It's great to see Cleveland's downtown headed in the right direction, and I hate to say it but...I don't quite see a 4,800 person increase over 20 years as "flocking to downtown". Maybe it's just the title I have an issue with.
Over the course of 20 years it isnt, but most of this has been in just the last 5 or so years. Every property downtown are filled (97% occupancy), and waiting lists are all 6months to a year. Were at the point now that its not only existing buildings being rehabbed, but new apartments and condos are going up. And its not only Downtown thats experiencing this kind of phenomenal growth. University Circle has the exact same thing going on, with the huge amount of jobs being created there, and existing demand from all the hospital employees and college kids. Neighborhoods like Detroit-Shoreway, Edgewood, Kamms Corners and Old Brooklyn are also seeing new development and investments

Also, i dont like the metrotrends/urban institute map very much, as i think its misleading being over such a long period of time. It doesnt reflect alot of areas that have stabilized or grown recently. Alot of the east side suburbs too have not been having anything close to the mass exodus of people that it looks like that have. these are all hugely upscale and wealthy cities that continually had very high home occupancy rates. The population loss hasnt been from abandonment of the neighborhoods. Families moved there, and now the kids have grown and moved on, with the parents staying in the same houses. I think that will be changing soon though, as alot of new condo developments are in the works, especially in Beachwood and Shaker Hts.
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Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 1:17 PM
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I just hate to split hairs here, but even with its similarities to Midwestern cities, Pittsburgh is an interior Northeastern/Appalachian city.
I agree accept I don't really think of Appalachian cities as being northeast. Pittsburgh just happens to be a city that lies within the technical definition of the northeast... and that's only because the state of Pennsylvania is weighted towards Philadelphia (i.e. if Pittsburgh were PA's flagship city then the state would probably be grouped in with either the Midwest or near South). Excepting Buffalo, which is also an outlier, Pittsburgh is (historically) most closely related to cities in the lower Midwest (e.g. Cincinnati) and near South (e.g. Charleston, WV).
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Old Posted May 4, 2012, 2:40 PM
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Quick question. What kind of zoning does Clevelands "inner city" have? Does it have any Form Based Codes type zoining? Minimum parking requirements?
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  #9  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 8:04 PM
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This happened in a lot of rust belt cities , and you can see census map after census map showing that green island surrounded by red.
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  #10  
Old Posted May 5, 2012, 3:24 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I agree accept I don't really think of Appalachian cities as being northeast. Pittsburgh just happens to be a city that lies within the technical definition of the northeast... and that's only because the state of Pennsylvania is weighted towards Philadelphia (i.e. if Pittsburgh were PA's flagship city then the state would probably be grouped in with either the Midwest or near South). Excepting Buffalo, which is also an outlier, Pittsburgh is (historically) most closely related to cities in the lower Midwest (e.g. Cincinnati) and near South (e.g. Charleston, WV).
I've always hated that Pennsylvania is so heavilly weighted toward out east, as if western PA is just "there" and really doesn't matter. Anyway, the initial post was to compare two equally-sized cities roughly 100-120 miles apart. Ookay, back to the discussion of Cleveland. It will be interesting to see where Cleveland is headed in the next 5 to 10 years and beyond. It has a lot of nice things to offer residents and tourists alike, epsecially in the downtown area. (the lake, R&R Hall of Fame, shopping at Terminal Tower just to name a few). As long as there is still demand for downtown living, I say keep building to fulfill the demand.

By the way. My wife and I are driving out there on Fathers Day weekend.
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Old Posted May 5, 2012, 5:43 AM
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Guys for the record, Cleveland and Pittsburgh are very related economically, demographically and geographically. In fact some have coined the term Cleveburgh to describe these two close metros and their co-dependence on each other more so than surrounding metros such at Columbus or Philadelphia. It's not comparing apples and oranges to compare Pittsburgh and Cleveland, they're both former heavy industrial metros of roughly 2 million people with similar demographics and trends. Pittsburgh is slightly ahead of Cleveland in the recovery phase just because of the massive fallout of the steel industry collapse of the 1980s while Cleveland suffered a slower decline thus are experiencing a slower recovery.

I have hope for both of these cities. The Rust Belt will inevitably be repopulated with young people looking towards a future with less automobile dependence considering many parts of these cities were built for and can sustain car free living.
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Old Posted May 5, 2012, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonboy1983 View Post
I've always hated that Pennsylvania is so heavilly weighted toward out east, as if western PA is just "there" and really doesn't matter. Anyway, the initial post was to compare two equally-sized cities roughly 100-120 miles apart. Ookay, back to the discussion of Cleveland. It will be interesting to see where Cleveland is headed in the next 5 to 10 years and beyond. It has a lot of nice things to offer residents and tourists alike, epsecially in the downtown area. (the lake, R&R Hall of Fame, shopping at Terminal Tower just to name a few). As long as there is still demand for downtown living, I say keep building to fulfill the demand.

By the way. My wife and I are driving out there on Fathers Day weekend.
TONS to do downtown. The lake, at least downtown apart from Voinovich Park really isnt that accessable, YET. Theres the Rock Hall, Science Center, USS Cod and Mather. Definitely should check out the nightlife and restaurants and E4th St. Id recommend Michael Symons Lola for dinner and the cosmic bowling around the corner on Euclid is pretty fun too. Also, the Houseshoe Casino on Public Square will be open by then, and its connected to Tower City Mall (which doesnt have a huge amount of stores at the moment, but theres plans for alot more to open now that the casino is there). Also if you have time, see a play at one of the Playhouse Square theaters (largest theater district outside of NYC). You can also take the train or Healthline over to University Circle and see the Museums, Orchestra (one of the top in the world) and Little Italy, which has some great food as well. Mama Santas is what i grew up on
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Old Posted May 5, 2012, 5:44 PM
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TONS to do downtown. The lake, at least downtown apart from Voinovich Park really isnt that accessable, YET. Theres the Rock Hall, Science Center, USS Cod and Mather. Definitely should check out the nightlife and restaurants and E4th St. Id recommend Michael Symons Lola for dinner and the cosmic bowling around the corner on Euclid is pretty fun too. Also, the Houseshoe Casino on Public Square will be open by then, and its connected to Tower City Mall (which doesnt have a huge amount of stores at the moment, but theres plans for alot more to open now that the casino is there). Also if you have time, see a play at one of the Playhouse Square theaters (largest theater district outside of NYC). You can also take the train or Healthline over to University Circle and see the Museums, Orchestra (one of the top in the world) and Little Italy, which has some great food as well. Mama Santas is what i grew up on
Maybe this is what is attracting the former baseball fans? I notice that Cleveland and Oakland are off by themselves in attendance. But, it's still early.
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Old Posted May 6, 2012, 3:38 PM
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I just hate to split hairs here, but even with its similarities to Midwestern cities, Pittsburgh is an interior Northeastern/Appalachian city. But I do think that Pittsburgh could serve as a model for Cleveland here.
and conversely, cleveland is thee eastern leaning midwestern city (ie., geography, the western reserve, the traffic circle layout of the tiny ne ohio farm towns, etc.).

the cleve is closely related to pittburgh and buffalo geographically and in their shared rust belt business hertitage, so even tho the three are such very different places, they are also rather tied up together.

personally i think the lakefront-related similarity of cleveland-erie-buffalo is more obvious today, but those old cleve-youngstown-pitts industrial heritage ties remain a strong bond too.
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Old Posted May 6, 2012, 9:33 PM
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I know someone who had to move there for work from Vancouver and he was able to buy a house cheaper than it would cost to buy a parking space here - a whole house! in the 10's of thousands instead of 100's of thousands
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Old Posted May 7, 2012, 2:15 PM
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This discussion already exists here (sans the ridiculous "what is Pittsburgh's region" sideshow):

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=198251
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Old Posted May 7, 2012, 2:44 PM
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Great news for Cleveland and the region in general!

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Originally Posted by Jonboy1983 View Post
That may be some folks association, but there are numerous others who consider Western PA as part of the midwest. I realize it is physically in Appalachia, but I just don't like associating Pittsburgh with it.

Besides, it's part of the Great Lakes Megalopolis... Maybe I should've just said it's part of that...
People who consider Western PA as part of the ridiculously-broadly termed "Midwest" are people who are generally from cites which are right on the East Coast and they consider anything not right on the East Coast or within a couple hours drive "midwest". It's an embarrassing display of geographic ignorance (not to mention historical ignorance) that never ceases to amaze me. Funny that such "urbane" and "cosmopolitan" East Coast denizens who as a group view themselves with superiority display the same ignorant perceptions of the rest of the nation that many in places like Texas and Florida do.

Pittsburgh is considered a Northeastern Mid-Atlantic Appalachian city.

Also, I think the classification "Great Lakes megalopolis" is a major stretch in which to use use the term "megalopolis". Including vast portions of deeply rural Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania in a megalopolis is beyond comprehension to me. It is nothing like the continuous stretch of urbanization that exists in the Northeast corridor.

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Originally Posted by gtbassett View Post
Guys for the record, Cleveland and Pittsburgh are very related economically, demographically and geographically... It's not comparing apples and oranges to compare Pittsburgh and Cleveland, they're both former heavy industrial metros of roughly 2 million people with similar demographics and trends.

I have hope for both of these cities. The Rust Belt will inevitably be repopulated with young people looking towards a future with less automobile dependence considering many parts of these cities were built for and can sustain car free living.
True, although Cleveland was and still is significantly larger than Pittsburgh with about half a million more people in the Cleveland area (and yes, 500K people is highly significant when talking about metro areas with under 3M people). Also, Cleveland is the hub of the much more cohesive NE Ohio region than Pittsburgh is of the very fractured SW PA region. They are similar cities in that they were (and still are) two of our most important industrial centers and in the same general region of the nation, but they are also very different in other measures.

Bolded part above... very interesting point. And as we hopefully move away from largely auto-dependent lifestyles, as you said the old rustbelt cities already have the infrastructure and design in place... meanwhile the sunbelt cities have to deal with decades of misguided suburban megasprawl which largely defines their cities, and have to build what cities like Pittsburgh and Cleveland already have.

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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
and conversely, cleveland is thee eastern leaning midwestern city (ie., geography, the western reserve, the traffic circle layout of the tiny ne ohio farm towns, etc.).

the cleve is closely related to pittburgh and buffalo geographically and in their shared rust belt business hertitage, so even tho the three are such very different places, they are also rather tied up together.

personally i think the lakefront-related similarity of cleveland-erie-buffalo is more obvious today, but those old cleve-youngstown-pitts industrial heritage ties remain a strong bond too.
Yeah, Cleveland is around the fuzzy border area of midwestern/northeastern. I do think Cleveland has more in common with cities to its east than to its west though, when looking at history, cultural ties, physical design, etc.

Cleveland could easily be a city in NY state... trading spots with Buffalo... and few outsiders would be able to note the real differences. It's also an interesting thing you bring up with the connections between cities in the region. The stretch along the lakeshore from Cleveland to Erie to Buffalo is a rather continuous chain... as is the stretch from Cleveland to Akron to Youngstown to Pittsburgh. The industrial heritages of both chains are highly similar, but the differing physical topographic features and direction the population chains move in impart very different cultural characteristics -- port city oriented and more "coastal" moving NE along the lakeshore and river city oriented and more "interior" moving SE towards Appalachia.
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Old Posted May 7, 2012, 3:04 PM
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To me the oldest and largest interior river cities feel more steeped in their own juices and are indpendent city-state like while the great lakes cities feel more related to other great lakes city in a kind of brotherhood. My impression is that it's hard to attribute PGH to anything other than its own unique Pittsburgh-y-ness in its unique region.
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Old Posted Jun 2, 2012, 4:09 PM
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Will Greater Cleveland Squander Its Chance to Be Competitive Again?


June 1, 2012

By Angie Schmitt

Read More: http://dc.streetsblog.org/2012/06/01...etitive-again/

Quote:
The Obama Administration’s Sustainable Communities Initiative was tailor made for communities like greater Cleveland. Northeast Ohio has been sprawling for decades without adding any population, emptying out the notoriously troubled central city while the regional economy consistently under-performs.

During the last decade the city of Cleveland lost 17 percent of its population. Inner-ring suburbs didn’t fare much better, shedding five to eight percent. Meanwhile, exurban Avon — a tax haven built on cleared forests and farmland 25 miles distant from the center city — grew 85 percent. Northeast Ohio had never undertaken a formal regional planning effort to address the rapid abandonment of its urban areas for unplanned, exurban development.

Northeast Ohio’s metropolitan planning organization, NOACA, has always been careful never to use the word “sprawl” in any of its documents. Its outgoing director, Howard Maier, absolves himself by pointing to the fact that state and federal law have not given metropolitan planning agencies specific powers to do land use planning. Of course, neither has the law forbidden land use planning, as many other regions can attest.

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Old Posted Jun 2, 2012, 5:15 PM
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I'm glad I got out of Cleveland before it became too trendy.
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