Impact of student's protests on Montreal's image - Page 11

jmt18325 · #**201** Posted: **May 25, 2012, 3:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterlooson

but some in the west (AB SK) would argue that some provinces (ie. Quebec) are being "over-equalized"

And they would be wrong.

Waterlooson · #**202** Posted: **May 25, 2012, 4:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's really a choice for Albertans to make, but I hardly think a sales taxe of a few percentage points would jeopardize the province's economic future...

Once again, it's really a fundamental question of philosophy more than it not being a practical or realistic solution to apply.

I don't have the stats, but it may well be that Alberta raises more tax for itself than Quebec, despite the fact that it has lower tax rates.... high taxes don't automatically translate into higher tax revenue over the long term... the reverse may be true since low tax rates help encourage more business investment and entrepreneurship.

O-tacular · #**203** Posted: **May 25, 2012, 4:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's really a choice for Albertans to make, but I hardly think a sales taxe of a few percentage points would jeopardize the province's economic future...

Once again, it's really a fundamental question of philosophy more than it not being a practical or realistic solution to apply.

I absolutely agree with you on this point. Unfortunately for anyone willing to pay extra for public services in Alberta there is an entrenched do it yourself, anti taxes portion of the populace that seems to hold the largest sway.

Waterlooson · #**204** Posted: **May 25, 2012, 4:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I absolutely agree with you on this point. Unfortunately for anyone willing to pay extra for public services in Alberta there is an entrenched do it yourself, anti taxes portion of the populace that seems to hold the largest sway.

Yes, that's why Klein was elected and why Alberta didn't bring in a provincial sales tax.... they wanted spending cuts, rather than tax increases... Klein: " no society has ever taxed itself to prosperity". I recall his words well.

Andy6 · #**205** Posted: **May 25, 2012, 4:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool maudit

another argument against equalization: it's a muzzle.

I believe that the reason is that equalization is meant to maintain a minimum level of basic services across the country (which people can generally accept), while in the case of Quebec it is viewed as helping to support 'cadillac' social services such as the daycare program and cheap tuition. That is the perception (right or wrong) and the main reason for the different reaction.

Waterlooson · #**206** Posted: **May 25, 2012, 4:27 PM**

^^ Exactly.

Doug · #**207** Posted: **May 25, 2012, 5:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Alberta has zero % provincial sales tax, some of the lowest provincial income tax rates in the country and (by Canadian levels at least) fairly low levels of social program spending.

That is a myth. Alberta has the second highest health spending (after NL), the highest education spending and by far the highest infrastructure spending. It outspends almost every government in the world.

freeweed · #**208** Posted: **May 25, 2012, 5:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

That is a myth. Alberta has the second highest health spending (after NL), the highest education spending and by far the highest infrastructure spending. It outspends almost every government in the world.

Yeah, Alberta spends like a drunken sailor. It's funny to hear complaints from a lot of people here about quality of service - I have to ask if any of them have ever lived in other provinces.

I remember the first time someone was in a hallway bed here - complete pandemonium. In other provinces, they now measure hospital space according to how many hallway beds they can fit in. Same with roads and transportation in general. I don't even want to drive my vehicle east anymore, because the road quality takes a serious nosedive once you leave the province. Yet many locals here think they're terrible.

Acajack · #**209** Posted: **May 25, 2012, 5:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

That is a myth. Alberta has the second highest health spending (after NL), the highest education spending and by far the highest infrastructure spending. It outspends almost every government in the world.

As far as social programs, I was thinking more of the programs that differentiate Quebec from Alberta and the other provinces: parental leave, daycare, child support, etc. The stuff you usually hear about. Health care might or might not be considered a "social program", though I am sure education and infrastructure (meaning highways mostly) are not.

freeweed · #**210** Posted: **May 25, 2012, 8:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

As far as social programs, I was thinking more of the programs that differentiate Quebec from Alberta and the other provinces: parental leave, daycare, child support, etc. The stuff you usually hear about. Health care might or might not be considered a "social program", though I am sure education and infrastructure (meaning highways mostly) are not.

Highways I'll maybe give you, but subsidized/free education is pretty much THE first social program.

Rico Rommheim · #**211** Posted: **May 26, 2012, 12:14 AM**

This city is brilliant. Hundreds of men and women, children, the elderly, students, non-students, families in every neighbourhood, taking the streets back for spontaneous pot-banging symphonies. We're talking about impromptu street parties, not protests. Its no longer (just) political, its now a fascinating urban moment. It is a beautiful display of urbanity, confirming Montreal's status as Canada's most vibrant city.

But forget what I say, you have to see it to believe it. This city is bursting with energy man, and this is only the beginning.

I am really glad I came back home.

eternallyme · #**212** Posted: **May 26, 2012, 3:11 AM**

Would this work for getting classes going again for students who want to go to school?

* Keep the campuses closed.

* Set up temporary campuses in some vacant space in suburban office parks, such as off the island of Montreal. Sure, transit access to them is poor, but it isolates them from the protesters.

* Ensure security beginning at the gates. Any protesters that want to disrupt would be immediately escorted out of the area.

someone123 · #**213** Posted: **May 26, 2012, 5:35 AM**

Here's a brief article from the National Post: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...-not-students/

There are arguably some problems with some of the points but it seems hard to argue that many older people had more "entitlements" than students today, and a lot of the people trying to get students to accept higher tuition still get pensions and other benefits that somebody in their 20's cannot realistically expect to get when they are older.

The attached graphic is kind of poorly done (very busy looking). Sadly, what stood out to me is how NS tuition peaked around the mid-2000's when I was in university there. At that time it was the highest tuition in Canada.

mezzanine · #**214** Posted: **May 26, 2012, 6:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

There are arguably some problems with some of the points but it seems hard to argue that many older people had more "entitlements" than students today, and a lot of the people trying to get students to accept higher tuition still get pensions and other benefits that somebody in their 20's cannot realistically expect to get when they are older.

But you're waxing nostalgic about an idealized past. As a visible minority, I realize the canada of today grants me more opportunity today than even 20 years ago. We wouldn't even be debating quebec's child care policy or tuition shortfalls as women across canada had much less choice about going to work or post-secondary education. You couldn't freely and universally share a pension or other entitlements with your long-term same-sex partner until a few years ago. Aboriginals couldn't even vote until 1960.

logan5 · #**215** Posted: **May 26, 2012, 11:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mezzanine

But you're waxing nostalgic about an idealized past. As a visible minority, I realize the canada of today grants me more opportunity today than even 20 years ago. We wouldn't even be debating quebec's child care policy or tuition shortfalls as women across canada had much less choice about going to work or post-secondary education. You couldn't freely and universally share a pension or other entitlements with your long-term same-sex partner until a few years ago. Aboriginals couldn't even vote until 1960.

Sorry man, you've got to fill in the blanks for me, otherwise your posts are like an inkblot test. Probly just me.

The_Architect · #**216** Posted: **May 26, 2012, 5:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

This city is brilliant. Hundreds of men and women, children, the elderly, students, non-students, families in every neighbourhood, taking the streets back for spontaneous pot-banging symphonies. We're talking about impromptu street parties, not protests. Its no longer (just) political, its now a fascinating urban moment. It is a beautiful display of urbanity, confirming Montreal's status as Canada's most vibrant city.

But forget what I say, you have to see it to believe it. This city is bursting with energy man, and this is only the beginning.

I am really glad I came back home.

My eyes just rolled like a Montreal cop car in a hockey riot.