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  #9261  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 6:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
Guys, published cost figures like these are basically never apples to apples for a laundry list of reasons impacting what is being included in the "all-in" project cost. For example, the Morgan project cost $38m, but the actual construction contract to the general contractor to build it was $25.3m.

In other CDOT station news, the construction contract for the Clark/Division rehab was just awarded for $41.4m.
So they can rebuild a subway station for $41.4M in one of the city's most congested areas, but the elevated one with tons of room for staging costs $50M.

I get your point about apples-to-apples, but I'm trying to imagine what kind of extras are included to bring the project up to $50M. Cermak streetscaping? Track renewal? Maybe there's something in the RFP.

Actually, that figure for Clark/Division is phenomenally low if it includes both the new mezzanine and the rehab of the existing one.
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  #9262  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 7:26 PM
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emathias emathias is offline
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Cermak vicinity

Looking at the vicinity of Cermak, what's with the empty blocks southwest of the station?

How hard would it be to extend 23rd into Chinatown? It seems like if the city did that, Chinatown would easily spread into those blocks. Also, it looks like a bike and/or pedestrian path could be woven along the north side of the Stevenson connecting those empty lots into the south end of the main Chinatown-Wentworth strip. Not enough room for a road without a lot of work, but it looks like a bike/pedestrian path could be managed with only a little excavation under some of the ramps. Doing both 23rd and a bike/pedestrian path seems like it could much more strongly tie Chinatown to those parcels and improve interest in development of them, especially after Cermak Green gets built. I just hope those lots aren't slated for SFH type development. A nice, highly urban development of that area seems like it would do wonders for the area. Sold blocks of 4-5 story mixed-use buildings with maybe a couple midrises flanking the corner of State and Cermak. If you did that, you'd have local, organic support for the Motor Row establishments to bolster destination customers, and excellent ridership support for the station and eventually if it went well it could spill over and get something going around 26th and State and further south toward IIT. Getting the South Loop to be commercially connected to that part of the South Side would be a great accomplishment.

Eventually it could support another station at 31st, and Lakeview-level density all the way to the Lakefront. That whole area has the potential to become Lakeview South with some smart investment.
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  #9263  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 9:01 PM
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The empty blocks southwest of the new Cermak Station are the former Ickes Homes. Their future is still in doubt, but the property is still held by CHA.

Chinatown is unlikely to spread eastward underneath the Dan Ryan since Chinatown has its own CTA station.
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  #9264  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 9:14 PM
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The Rock Island's overpass at 23rd is pretty recent, so there was some plan for it.

The Wells-Wentworth megaproject might address this, if it ever gets built. I believe the plan is to directly connect the end of Wells at Roosevelt to the Dan Ryan feeder at Cermak.
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  #9265  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 11:14 PM
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The new Cermak station will be expedited and that will increase costs considerably. Whether or not that is twelve million dollars of costs, I do not know. It would be nice to see a cost break down for once. The design won't be finalized until January at the earliest, contract will be let sometime in the winter/spring of 2013, awarded spring/summer of 2013 and construction would start sometime late 2013. That would mean construction would be right around a year or a little more. That would mean that the Cermak station construction would be about half the time of the Morgan station because they want it open by December 31, 2014.
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  #9266  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2012, 7:03 PM
chicagopcclcar1 chicagopcclcar1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
The empty blocks southwest of the new Cermak Station are the former Ickes Homes. Their future is still in doubt, but the property is still held by CHA.
22nd St. (Cermak Rd.) has more in history then just the CHA housing project. The location is the origin of the so-called Black Belt on the southside of Chicago. 22nd St. and State St. is where the then Negro settlement relocated after being burned out by the "second" Chicago Fire of 1874. This second fire started in an oil distribution facility and the first call was answered by the segregated Negro fire brigade. The fire was beyond their control when they arrived on the scene and quickly developed into an inferno that burned north and northeast, finally burning out when it reached the burn area of the original 1872 Great Chicago Fire.

The second fire is also credited with convincing the rich who resided in the mansions along the near south side to relocate to the Gold Coast. It also convinced city officials to enforce legislation prohibiting wood-frame structures from being built within city limits and inside the original burn area from 1872.

Meanwhile the Black Belt began the slow block by block resegregation that today has leapfrogged past Interstate 80-294 in the far-far south suburbs. By 1900 the southern limits was the former city limits at 39th St.; by 1930s it was 63rd St. Uniquely, the south side elevated was the axis of this steady movement. The square mile bounded by 51st and 43rd, State St. and Cottage Grove would become the second densest populated square mile in the country. Two business centers would develop in what we call Bronzeville; along 35th St. and south State and along east 47th St, centered on Grand Boulevard. The difference between the two...35th St. was mainly Negro owned while 47th St. was almost exclusively white-owned.

Which business practice continues today...well the answer is easily revealed by a brief rollcall.... like in 2012, there may still be that one Black-owned service station on the west side, but there are no Black-owned grocery stores in the entire city, the last one was at 79th St. and Calumet. Blacks can have all the store-front churches, barber shops, beauty shops, day care centers and funeral parlors; but not cell phone stores, shoe stores, beauty supply, convience stores and most liquor stores.

Tearing down 95 percent of the CHA housing projects has brought about the greatest sudden depopulation and redistribution in the city's history; the discussion of which would go far beyond the topics of this forum.

David Harrison
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  #9267  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2012, 10:16 PM
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^ Appreciate the history lesson, but what does this have to do at all with our discussion?
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  #9268  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2012, 3:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagopcclcar1 View Post
22nd St. (Cermak Rd.) has more in history then just the CHA housing project. The location is the origin of the so-called Black Belt on the southside of Chicago. 22nd St. and State St. is where the then Negro settlement relocated after being burned out by the "second" Chicago Fire of 1874. This second fire started in an oil distribution facility and the first call was answered by the segregated Negro fire brigade. The fire was beyond their control when they arrived on the scene and quickly developed into an inferno that burned north and northeast, finally burning out when it reached the burn area of the original 1872 Great Chicago Fire.

The second fire is also credited with convincing the rich who resided in the mansions along the near south side to relocate to the Gold Coast. It also convinced city officials to enforce legislation prohibiting wood-frame structures from being built within city limits and inside the original burn area from 1872.

Meanwhile the Black Belt began the slow block by block resegregation that today has leapfrogged past Interstate 80-294 in the far-far south suburbs. By 1900 the southern limits was the former city limits at 39th St.; by 1930s it was 63rd St. Uniquely, the south side elevated was the axis of this steady movement. The square mile bounded by 51st and 43rd, State St. and Cottage Grove would become the second densest populated square mile in the country. Two business centers would develop in what we call Bronzeville; along 35th St. and south State and along east 47th St, centered on Grand Boulevard. The difference between the two...35th St. was mainly Negro owned while 47th St. was almost exclusively white-owned.

Which business practice continues today...well the answer is easily revealed by a brief rollcall.... like in 2012, there may still be that one Black-owned service station on the west side, but there are no Black-owned grocery stores in the entire city, the last one was at 79th St. and Calumet. Blacks can have all the store-front churches, barber shops, beauty shops, day care centers and funeral parlors; but not cell phone stores, shoe stores, beauty supply, convience stores and most liquor stores.

Tearing down 95 percent of the CHA housing projects has brought about the greatest sudden depopulation and redistribution in the city's history; the discussion of which would go far beyond the topics of this forum.

David Harrison

And what to do to change/improve the situation is a big discussion too.
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  #9269  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2012, 2:41 PM
chicagopcclcar1 chicagopcclcar1 is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Appreciate the history lesson, but what does this have to do at all with our discussion?
I had to go back several pages and lo and behold...I actually responded to your prior post. I'd forgotten all about that...you asked about creating a subway station at the lowest point in the Chicago subway. You got two repsonses but I don't see your comment to either post.

The history I exlained about Cermak and State I hope would guide some of the future discussions now that you know what has gone on before.

David Harrison
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  #9270  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2012, 3:58 PM
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A couple of days old, but naming rights for some high-ridership CTA stations (and a bunch of other stuff) are now up for sale (via ABC), with the deadline for submissions being in September. I think the fact that only eleven stations have naming rights up for sale is encouraging—it seems like they’re only going for stations where they could demand top dollar. Also encouraging is the fact that the corporate names will only be <i>alongside</i> current station names, so we’re not getting a situation like in Philadelphia where Pattison was renamed AT&T.
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  #9271  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2012, 5:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagopcclcar1 View Post
I had to go back several pages and lo and behold...I actually responded to your prior post. I'd forgotten all about that...you asked about creating a subway station at the lowest point in the Chicago subway. You got two repsonses but I don't see your comment to either post.

The history I exlained about Cermak and State I hope would guide some of the future discussions now that you know what has gone on before.

David Harrison
Oh, I see. I don't remember those comments, my apologies. Usually when responding to a person's posts (especially if that post is a bit older) it's a good idea to quote it as a reference.
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  #9272  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2012, 5:39 PM
chicagopcclcar1 chicagopcclcar1 is offline
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Question for those in the know:

Has there been any discussion about creating a new stop at Clinton (or Canal) on the O'Hare branch of the Blue Line?

And if not, does the planning for a future Canal/Clinton St subway have anything to do with why this hasn't been given a priority?

Thanks to anyone



Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Oh, I see. I don't remember those comments, my apologies. Usually when responding to a person's posts (especially if that post is a bit older) it's a good idea to quote it as a reference.
Which still leaves unanswered the question as to why you see a need for a subway station on the Blue line at the deepest point in the Chicago subway.

David Harrison
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  #9273  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2012, 11:47 PM
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Presumably the idea is to allow for an efficient transfer between Ogilvie/north end of Union Station and the Blue Line. If you're at Ogilvie and exit to Randolph, Clinton or Clark/Lake are pretty far away.

Unfortunately the subway was not built to interface with commuter terminals and it's far too expensive to add that in now. The more interesting question is why the Blue Line-Metra transfer at LaSalle is still so crappy.

I think I mentioned this earlier, but the original plan was to feed the Lake Street line into the Blue Line subway, which would have included an underground station at Clinton to replace the elevated one. The station would have been set up such that Blue Line trains could not stop there.
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  #9274  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2012, 2:52 AM
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The more interesting question is why the Blue Line-Metra transfer at LaSalle is still so crappy.
Woah woah woah... thats FAR too complicated of a question, lets make sure to start with the basics here.

1. Why does LaSalle Street station suck so bad?
2. Does it hate pedestrians?
3. Why does LaSalle Street station suck so bad?
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  #9275  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2012, 4:18 PM
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I saw an empty MTA bus from New York City yesterday on I-90 by Elgin. Any idea why a bus from New York City would be driving around Chicago? Do they make buses around here? Or is the CTA refubushing buses from other cities?
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  #9276  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2012, 4:37 PM
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I saw an empty MTA bus from New York City yesterday on I-90 by Elgin. Any idea why a bus from New York City would be driving around Chicago? Do they make buses around here? Or is the CTA refubushing buses from other cities?
New Flyer has production facilities in the Minneapolis area. Think they are in the middle of delivering a sizable order to the MTA.
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  #9277  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2012, 4:45 PM
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Per Tribune, south branch of red line to be closed for 5 months in 2013 to repair slow zones

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,2059367.story

Its gonna suck, but I think its definitely a better idea than stretching the nonsense over 4 years. Just get it over with.
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  #9278  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2012, 5:12 PM
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CTA to close Dan Ryan branch of Red Line for 5 months

http://discussions.chicagotribune.co...ne-20120604/10


A Red Line train moves north to the 95th Street stop in 2010. (Jose M. Osorio / June 4, 2012)

By Jon Hilkevitch

Tribune reporter

11:48 a.m. CDT, June 4, 2012

The entire south branch of the CTA Red Line will close for five months starting in spring 2013, with the transit agency offering free shuttle bus service to Green Line rail stations, so a $425 million track replacement project can be completed more quickly, officials said Monday.

The decision to close the Red Line from the Cermak-Chinatown station to the 95th Street terminal was made to condense the reconstruction from four years of weekend work to five months total, said CTA spokeswoman Molly Sullivan.

She acknowledged it will cause inconvenience to riders, but that the benefits of the project will come on line sooner.

“Dragging out the project would be delaying faster service by more than three years,’’ Sullivan said, adding that slow zones are in effect on 40 percent of the Dan Ryan branch of the Red Line.

Completing the work in five months by shutting down the entire south branch, instead of four years of operating the line on weekdays only, will also save $75 million, Sullivan said.

The savings will also allow for some station upgrades, including elevators at three stations, she said.

The CTA is making the announcement now to get the word out and begin “extensive community outreach,’’ Sullivan said.

“We decided to make this announcement as early as we could to engage the community about the impacts of the project and (let people know about) the opportunity for jobs,’’ Sullivan said. “We will be seeking feedback from the community and planning town hall-style meetings.’’

The track system work will improve customer service by reducing the amount of slow zones, while also cutting operating costs for the transit agency, transit officials have said. Slow zones are currently needed to permit trains to travel safely on deteriorated sections of track.

The south branch of the Red Line has the highest slow zone percentage on the entire CTA rail system.

New steel rails, ties and ballast will be installed and drainage improvements made between the State Street subway portal, which is north of the Cermak-Chinatown station, and the 95th Street terminal, according to the CTA’s plan.

The project follows a 2006 project that upgraded signals, a portion of the power system and included some work on tracks and stations.

More than 50,000 riders board trains on the south branch of the Red Line on an average weekday, CTA statistics show.

jhilkevitch@tribune.com

Twitter: @jhilkevitch
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  #9279  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2012, 6:21 PM
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Presumably Rahm already has the south side alderman lined up to support this somehow.
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  #9280  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2012, 6:50 PM
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Presumably Rahm already has the south side alderman lined up to support this somehow.
From the Sun-Times’s article:

Quote:
Ald. Howard Brookins (21st), chairman of the City Council’s Black Caucus, agreed.

“Shutting the Red Line down for five months is better than the alternative of shutting it down for four or five years each weekend,” Brookins said. “That’s the only other choice.

“Yes, there’s an inconvenience,” Brookins said. “But the long-lasting effect of fixing slow zones and upgrading stations will outweigh the temporary inconvenences.”

Ald. Bob Fioretti (2nd) said it’s “about time” the CTA fixed the Red Line. And he agreed that shutting down the Dan Ryan leg for five months is better than four years of weekend closings.

But Fioretti said that unless the CTA does a better job of maintaining the newly rebuilt Red Line, the same problems will return.
“To be always doing things in a big thrust without doing day-to-day maintenance of our rail system doesn’t benefit either the taxpayers or the riders,” Fioretti said.
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