Birmingham Discussion Thread - Page 87

quattordici · #**1721** Posted: **Jun 17, 2012, 10:26 PM**

I think Birmingham could easily support one, but I don't know how likely it is that we would get one.

It'd be nice for the region to finally have one thing to all pull for together. It would go a long way to bringing the area together; something that has been an impediment to ANY progress for decades.

EDIT: The city would also have to build a new, larger arena. Best thing to do would be to build it between where the current area is now (that would require the acquisition of a couple of new properties). After that, tear down the old one and build more convention space (something the city is going to desperately need down the road, especially if it does get an NBA team).

phoenixboi08 · #**1722** Posted: **Jun 18, 2012, 9:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhammer

http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingha...-nba-team.html

Jon Solomon of the Birmingham News was a major nay-sayer on this topic but here an author with a business perspective, when looking at the numbers, seems to feel very differently.

Keep this in mind:

The implications of this are reasonably large.

One thing that I think it's important to note is that Birmingham has consistently shown an amazingly good corporate community through the decades, sponsoring a whole lot of events and creating things like the Alys Stephens Center. Our cultural centers are all very good, better than most others in the Southeast, and they're mostly made possible through our corporate community.

So it's not even necessary that it has to be our corporate community in particular.

To quote the original article with the study to which this one refers:

So, looking at the numbers, I think it's definitely possible that we could support an NBA team and turn a profit. Actually I think it's a bit odd to believe that we couldn't, given that we're one of the top 10 TV markets for NBA. Also, we are just barely behind Louisville in terms of metros without an NBA team.
I don't know that naysayers in the professional world are factoring in the economic "aftershocks" of injecting a major-league team into a city. An investment that large tends to act as sort of a "bazooka" and spur development and economic activity following it. Also, the cultural implications are considerable: this would be Alabama's first and only major league team, and considering how sports-crazy we already are, tons of people would really rally behind it and show their support. Not all, but definitely enough to keep one in business. The sense of community and identity is something VERY vital to urban centers.
Last but not least, it's important to note that previous pro franchises in Birmingham have actually fared well. The only reason that they went under was because of the league as a whole, which is a damn shame. There is some new football league starting up and Birmingham is actually high on their list of prospective franchises.

I think that the two dealbreakers here are:
1. Corporate sponsorship is on the fence. A lot of companies already have money invested in football suites at Alabama/Auburn
2. The need to build a new stadium.
What do you make of this?

I'm from Phoenix, and the one thing I could never understand was why people here would always say "Alabama wouldn't support a NBA/NFL team." After a few weeks of living here, it seemed obvious to me that a team could do quite well.
Landing an NBA team is arguably the more practical pursuit (given we already have the facilities - for the most part). Though, I'd hope for an NFL team.
I understand that College Football is the buzz here, but honestly...football is football.

I say why not?

quattordici · #**1723** Posted: **Jun 18, 2012, 10:23 PM**

I think an NFL would be a bit much to ask for. Of course, I'd still love to have one. But, yea, an NBA team has always seemed like such a logical fit for Birmingham. I think the reason why people in other parts of the country don't believe Birmingham could support one is simply because of petty stereotypes about the poor/racist South. In reality, the area really does have quite a bit of money. In addition, you've got over 2 Million residents within 100 miles of the city, which is more than Nashville and Memphis can argue.

Plus, you factor in the possibility of naming it the Alabama "somethings" instead of the Birmingham "somethings" and you stand to attract more fans from the state as a whole instead just the metro area. Not to say that the Birmingham "somethings" wouldn't attract a statewide fanbase, but it's at least something to consider.

bhammer · #**1724** Posted: **Jun 18, 2012, 10:48 PM**

Yeah, I think an NFL team wouldn't fare very well, especially considering that we're so tied up in college football.
An NBA team, I think, would do very well, though. Especially after looking at the numbers.
I don't think an MLS team is out of the question, either. Considering that the Southeast doesn't have a single one, and Birmingham's very central location, I think a Birmingham MLS team would do well. Even if the soccer scene isn't large here, you have to consider that it would have the support of almost every soccer fan in the entire Southeast, and that's very valuable.
In the last 5 years, there have been 5 new MLS teams, and in that same timeframe the average price of an MLS team has doubled.

bhammer · #**1725** Posted: **Jun 18, 2012, 10:49 PM**

Also: birminghamprosports.com

We are getting 2 small-league pro basketball teams for 2013, possibly a third, and very possibly a small-league pro football team.

quattordici · #**1726** Posted: **Jun 19, 2012, 5:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhammer

Yeah, I think an NFL team wouldn't fare very well, especially considering that we're so tied up in college football.
An NBA team, I think, would do very well, though. Especially after looking at the numbers.
I don't think an MLS team is out of the question, either. Considering that the Southeast doesn't have a single one, and Birmingham's very central location, I think a Birmingham MLS team would do well. Even if the soccer scene isn't large here, you have to consider that it would have the support of almost every soccer fan in the entire Southeast, and that's very valuable.
In the last 5 years, there have been 5 new MLS teams, and in that same timeframe the average price of an MLS team has doubled.

If I'm not mistaken, during the 96' Olympics, Birmingham had the highest attendance during the soccer tournament.

ariesjow · #**1727** Posted: **Jun 19, 2012, 4:59 PM**

[QUOTE=tredici;5738668]In addition, you've got over 2 Million residents within 100 miles of the city, which is more than Nashville and Memphis can argue. [QUOTE]

There are well over 2 million within 100 miles of Nashville. The Nashville metro alone has over 1.6 million and it abuts the Clarksville/Ft. Campbell, KY metro to the north (300,000), the Cookeville micropolitan to the immediate east and the Columbia, TN micropolitan to the south. The Huntsville metro is also within 100 miles of Nashville as well. Huntsville is essentially equidistant between Nashville and Birmingham.

The important thing for pro sports are the media market and corporate sponsorship ability. In regards to the media market, Birmingham actually has a larger DMA market than some cities with pro sports like OKC, New Orleans and Memphis. What hurts Birmingham more than anything is its proximity to Atlanta and Nashville who have multiple sports.

quattordici · #**1728** Posted: **Jun 19, 2012, 8:23 PM**

Quote:

There are well over 2 million within 100 miles of Nashville. The Nashville metro alone has over 1.6 million and it abuts the Clarksville/Ft. Campbell, KY metro to the north (300,000), the Cookeville micropolitan to the immediate east and the Columbia, TN micropolitan to the south. The Huntsville metro is also within 100 miles of Nashville as well. Huntsville is essentially equidistant between Nashville and Birmingham.

The important thing for pro sports are the media market and corporate sponsorship ability. In regards to the media market, Birmingham actually has a larger DMA market than some cities with pro sports like OKC, New Orleans and Memphis. What hurts Birmingham more than anything is its proximity to Atlanta and Nashville who have multiple sports.

I actually thought of being more specific with my population analysis, I knew it would come back to bite me. Most of the population in the Huntsville area sits closer to Birmingham than Nashville. Birmingham also has the added benefit of having all of the Tuscaloosa, Anniston, Gadsden, Decatur, Montgomery metros, most of Huntsville's, and a third of The Shoals. Just the metropolitan areas combine for over 2.5 Million. That doesn't include the 5 or so micropolitan areas and a portion of Auburn's metro.

If we're talking about metro areas within driving distance (btw, pretty much only the first sentence of this post was pertaining to you're first paragraph), which would only be metros like Birmingham, Tuscaloosa, and possibly Anniston and Gadsden, you have 1.5 Million. Again, that's just the metros.

I agree with your last paragraph, though I don't know if Birmingham is so close to Nashville that it really affects its ability to attract a team. I'm from North Alabama, and I don't know a single Tennessee Titans fan back home. Sure, people would prefer that the Titans win than say the Bengals, but I seriously don't know anyone that actively follows them. I'd actually say that I know more Predators fans than I do Titan fans.

If you look at it this way, Nashville doesn't have an NBA team, and who really cares about the Hawks? That gives Birmingham a bit of an edge in that an NBA team would be the only game in town and would likely garner more support from those fans that are in a fuzzy, or gray, area regarding which city's basketball team they'd rather support.

BTW, all, a story on AL.com about it all. LINK

philopdx · #**1729** Posted: **Jun 20, 2012, 1:37 AM**

Not gonna happen. There is money in Birmingham - but it's very provincial, very conservative and has a fraternity/golf/alma-mater focus. Ain't no boys in seersucker suits gonna support such an "urban" pastime. Use your secret decoder ring to figure out what "urban" means.

In fact, it's about as likely as stumbling across a Juneteenth BBQ in English Village.

Small ball, however, would be a nice (and attainable) addition to the area. But as far as a major league sport of any kind, Alabama isn't Nashville, Memphis or OKC. Alabama is entirely its own planet, and you have to spend some time outside of the state to fully understand that.

By the way, Happy Juneteenth!

neilson · #**1730** Posted: **Jun 20, 2012, 2:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by philopdx

Not gonna happen. There is money in Birmingham - but it's very provincial, very conservative and has a fraternity/golf/alma-mater focus. Ain't no boys in seersucker suits gonna support such an "urban" pastime. Use your secret decoder ring to figure out what "urban" means.

In fact, it's about as likely as stumbling across a Juneteenth BBQ in English Village.

Small ball, however, would be a nice (and attainable) addition to the area. But as far as a major league sport of any kind, Alabama isn't Nashville, Memphis or OKC. Alabama is entirely its own planet, and you have to spend some time outside of the state to fully understand that.

By the way, Happy Juneteenth!

Well can we at least get US Open or PGA Golf in B'ham? Shoal Creek isn't racist anymore, and you've got Black money along with Old White money now.

bhammer · #**1731** Posted: **Jun 20, 2012, 5:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by philopdx

Not gonna happen. There is money in Birmingham - but it's very provincial, very conservative and has a fraternity/golf/alma-mater focus. Ain't no boys in seersucker suits gonna support such an "urban" pastime. Use your secret decoder ring to figure out what "urban" means.
...
But as far as a major league sport of any kind, Alabama isn't Nashville, Memphis or OKC. Alabama is entirely its own planet, and you have to spend some time outside of the state to fully understand that.

I actually had a similar impression of Birmingham growing up, until I spent time out of state and read the news. It seems like you haven't left Portland in a while since you just covered your ears to all the aforementioned facts from my earlier post.

I studied in England for a year and in Pittsburgh for 3. England especially made me realize that the South's the only place in the US I'd ever want to live (maybe Boston, but there's nothing really drawing me there). I really don't see you presenting a modicum of support for your statement. I don't want to sound snide, but since it's relevant, most of the elite crowd in Birmingham are the people that I grew up with. If you knew them you wouldn't think "fraternity" at all (they're all bookworms). The nouveau riche are about like what you described but it's not them calling the shots and their spoiled kids would kill for a major-league team anyway. Also the more well-to-do blacks nationwide would have a big soft spot for an NBA team in Birmingham of all places considering the civil rights history.
Money anywhere recognizes a profit when they see it, "urban" or otherwise, and Birmingham's corporate community is known for being very good, even despite terrible civic leadership. With one of the largest NBA TV markets in the country, an NBA team is definitely NOT out of the question. On the fence but it would definitely be foolish to rule it out.

quattordici · #**1732** Posted: **Jun 20, 2012, 6:10 AM**

It'd be nice if people would stop telling us we can do, or attain stuff. Maybe then we'd actually start to think we're capable of something.

Tourian · #**1733** Posted: **Jun 25, 2012, 4:11 PM**

Every time we've had a team of some sort here, all I can ever remember is how Birmingham people would pull together and support it and then the league itself would fold up completely. So I think an NBA team would do just fine here. NFL is just a pipe dream though, they just demand too much up front and we don't have 600 million-1.5 billion to build a stadium. The team should definitely be named the Birmingham "somethings" rather then Alabama though.

quattordici · #**1734** Posted: **Jun 26, 2012, 1:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourian

Every time we've had a team of some sort here, all I can ever remember is how Birmingham people would pull together and support it and then the league itself would fold up completely. So I think an NBA team would do just fine here. NFL is just a pipe dream though, they just demand too much up front and we don't have 600 million-1.5 billion to build a stadium. The team should definitely be named the Birmingham "somethings" rather then Alabama though.

Depends on how the new arena would be paid for. Might get into a situation like Tennessee and Nashville did when the stadium was built for the Titans. The state wanted them to be the Tennessee somethings in order for the state to help in the way of funding.

BlakFlava · #**1735** Posted: **Jun 27, 2012, 9:00 PM**

As we know, there are always going to be the nay sayers. I remember the PHOOLS who were so adamantly against the Montgomery baseball team. It was ridiculous. As it happened, the Biscuits turned out to be one of the best things going.

*BRAVO* · #**1736** Posted: **Jun 28, 2012, 1:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourian

The team should definitely be named the Birmingham "somethings" rather then Alabama though.

I'd pull for the team either way... just be glad to see the investment and positive momentum.

Cashville · #**1737** Posted: **Jul 28, 2012, 11:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredici

In reality, the area really does have quite a bit of money. In addition, you've got over 2 Million residents within 100 miles of the city, which is more than Nashville and Memphis can argue.
.

And you are talking out of your ass, Nashville easily has over 2 million people within an hour of the city. You have the Nashville CSA which is right at 1.7 million people currently, Clarksville MSA at 280,000 and Bowling Green MSA at 130,000. All three of those areas will grow by 20-30% this decade.

Birmingham will never have a major league team in anything, sorry. Its a small/slow growth metro that is a college sports town.

quattordici · #**1738** Posted: **Jul 29, 2012, 12:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashville

And you are talking out of your ass, Nashville easily has over 2 million people within an hour of the city. You have the Nashville CSA which is right at 1.7 million people currently, Clarksville MSA at 280,000 and Bowling Green MSA at 130,000. All three of those areas will grow by 20-30% this decade.

Birmingham will never have a major league team in anything, sorry. Its a small/slow growth metro that is a college sports town.

Maybe if you'd looked at one of my follow up comments, you'd know that your first point is irrelevant.

arkitekte · #**1739** Posted: **Jul 29, 2012, 3:12 AM**

Didn't a 15 year old start that "NBA to Birmingham" deal on Twitter? Anyways, the key to a successful franchise is corporate purchases and a strong TV market, which I'm sure has been mentioned in this thread 10 times already. I don't know who fans in Alabama pull for, I'm sure there are a decent amount of Hawks fans, but I don't see many people in Alabama being Grizz fans, just because of city rivalries between Birmingham and Memphis.

Could the NBA thrive in Birmingham? Possibly, but I don't see Birmingham getting a team before Seattle, Kansas City, or Las Vegas.

The NFL for sure wouldn't, mainly due to the fact that the big money folks are spending their money on Saturdays at Bryant-Denny and Jordan-Hare, and also due to the proximity to Nashville and ATL.

Cashville · #**1740** Posted: **Jul 29, 2012, 5:42 PM**

Nobody in Alabama cares about the NBA, thats why it wouldnt work. And Kansas City is one of the most overextended pro sports markets as-is, adding an NBA team to the sports lineup would be a bad idea.