New Arena for Downtown Edmonton? - Page 229

240glt · #**4561** Posted: **Jun 29, 2012, 6:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Precisely Danno

Cheap Chinese curtainwall. I hope they make it better than they make their steel. Or anything out of plastic.

I still think that the garden will be scaled back and the practice rink will be postponed/nixed. The rest of it won't change much, except for a few efficiencies that the builder can come up with

It's too bad the whole process has been so flawed right from the get go... we migt not be having these issues. This won't be the last hiccup either

cdnklc · #**4562** Posted: **Jun 29, 2012, 7:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardhatdan

I hope at this point they have involved PCL in constructibility. It's possible to shave 5-10% off the construction just by "building it better" and that is where the experience of a constructor makes the difference.

Other options are seeking materil procurment from offshore vendors. I know the SAIT expansion in Calgary had all of the glazing source from China and delivered equal quality, equal to better delivery than local and a substatial cost savings.

you might want to check with some of those owners in ontario with "glass from somewhere" as to whether glazing from unverifiable sources is really of equal quality and performance regardless of delivery time and [initial] cost savings.

BLACK STAR · #**4563** Posted: **Jun 30, 2012, 5:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240glt

Cheap Chinese curtainwall. I hope they make it better than they make their steel. Or anything out of plastic.

I still think that the garden will be scaled back and the practice rink will be postponed/nixed. The rest of it won't change much, except for a few efficiencies that the builder can come up with

It's too bad the whole process has been so flawed right from the get go... we migt not be having these issues. This won't be the last hiccup either

Practice rink will be postponed/nixed.

From my understanding the practice rink is not apart of the 450 mill.

Hardhatdan · #**4564** Posted: **Jul 1, 2012, 3:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdnklc

you might want to check with some of those owners in ontario with "glass from somewhere" as to whether glazing from unverifiable sources is really of equal quality and performance regardless of delivery time and [initial] cost savings.

The project I speak of did rigorous testing and hired a reputable 3rd quality assurance inspectors to perform in factory inspections. Despite the extra steps they still achieved drastic cost savings.
So please park your condescending tone.
If you do the homework the options are there. The supply chains in Asia have orders of magnitude higher production capability which makes global procurement a value added and realistic option.

I'm not sure why there is such a question pedigree when there are many cities in Asia with more curtain wall buildings I them than the prairies combined.

cdnklc · #**4565** Posted: **Jul 1, 2012, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardhatdan

The project I speak of did rigorous testing and hired a reputable 3rd quality assurance inspectors to perform in factory inspections. Despite the extra steps they still achieved drastic cost savings.
So please park your condescending tone.
If you do the homework the options are there. The supply chains in Asia have orders of magnitude higher production capability which makes global procurement a value added and realistic option.

I'm not sure why there is such a question pedigree when there are many cities in Asia with more curtain wall buildings I them than the prairies combined.

my comment was specifically directed towards the glass itself, not the level of inspection that can be provided on a construction site. and the problem is not an asian problem per se as some of the north american mergers are introducing the same inability to readily determine the source and composition of the glass being delivered and installed. although you are right in one respect - it is as much a concern and on a much larger scale in asia than it is here - that doesn't mean it is any less of a concern that will need to be addressed... sorry you took that to be condescending.

Hardhatdan · #**4566** Posted: **Jul 2, 2012, 3:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdnklc

my comment was specifically directed towards the glass itself, not the level of inspection that can be provided on a construction site. and the problem is not an asian problem per se as some of the north american mergers are introducing the same inability to readily determine the source and composition of the glass being delivered and installed. although you are right in one respect - it is as much a concern and on a much larger scale in asia than it is here - that doesn't mean it is any less of a concern that will need to be addressed... sorry you took that to be condescending.

I wasn't talking about site inspections, I am talking in factory, apologies if I was unclear.
The condescending part is that your statement, without the clarification you just delivered, seems to assert completely writing off the very viable option and real cost savings of off shore procurement because of some passing comment about an unclassified issue in Toronto.

EdmTrekker · #**4567** Posted: **Jul 2, 2012, 4:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardhatdan

I wasn't talking about site inspections, I am talking in factory, apologies if I was unclear.
The condescending part is that your statement, without the clarification you just delivered, seems to assert completely writing off the very viable option and real cost savings of off shore procurement because of some passing comment about an unclassified issue in Toronto.

PCL as CM looked at glass from China for Edmonton Clinic North....and they, the PM firm and Owner ruled it out after what I heard was a thorough analysis. But then different design team involved. ECN had Halcrow Yolles working as Structural Eng with HOK and both have global exp. Is it RJC on the Arena? If so are they the Prime Structural or a Sub to the Prime Structural? I wonder what if any projects they have completed using glass from outside NA for curtain wall or other.

Coldrsx · #**4568** Posted: **Jul 5, 2012, 3:33 AM**

Hearing very good things about the private side of things...

BLACK STAR · #**4569** Posted: **Jul 5, 2012, 3:49 AM**

Ok.....And!

feepa · #**4570** Posted: **Jul 5, 2012, 4:55 AM**

^ wait a week or two... seems that's when we should hear more about things

Coldrsx · #**4571** Posted: **Jul 5, 2012, 5:06 AM**

July 6 was the date, but it might be a week or so, yes.

240glt · #**4572** Posted: **Jul 5, 2012, 5:43 PM**

Posted by the EFCL on June 15:

More Money needed for Community Connections: As impressive and comprehensive as the development is – and it is both of those things - stakeholders at a recent presentation on the downtown arena left with one big question unanswered.

Where is the money going to come from to pay for all of the features the developer has in mind?

This question reared its ugly head when it was revealed, almost at the end of the presentation, that the $450 million budgeted for the project would only cover the arena and underground parking.

All of the features that would help connect the project to the community – including the “Winter Garden” area and 104 Avenue pedway overpass, a community ice rink, a 24-hour pedestrian corridor and connection to an adjacent LRT station and an open air plaza south of 104 Avenue will have to be funded separately.

This will bring the total bill for the project to $532 million – not including the plaza. Representatives of nearby community leagues, among other stakeholders, found this news to be quite disturbing, as it was felt that these features were critical to the success of the venture. In fact, Scott Ralston of 360 Architecture – the company designing the facility – openly acknowledged that the development would not work as planned without the extra dollars. For example, he said his company would have to “redo the plan” if the community ice rink was not funded. “We don’t know what the replacement would be (in that space).”

Stakeholders were informed that the design would be presented to city council for ratification on July 4. Another meeting will be held shortly thereafter to refine a community benefits agreement, which the city is putting together with area residents and organizations. This may include a residential parking plan, a local hiring policy (to build and run the arena), and formation of a committee to deal with any noise, litter, parking or crime issues that accompany the use of the arena.

http://www.efcl.org/NEWS/tabid/145/a...Questions.aspx

s211 · #**4573** Posted: **Jul 5, 2012, 6:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240glt

Posted by the EFCL on June 15:

Oh oh, spaghetti-oh's.

Coldrsx · #**4574** Posted: **Jul 12, 2012, 6:13 PM**

Recommended to proceed

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=637798

bkd · #**4575** Posted: **Jul 12, 2012, 8:57 PM**

Zinc to fucking stainless steel. FML.

If you use a high end, high grade stainless steel, can you make it look somewhat like zinc? The Walt Disney Concert Hall in LA, a building I absolutely love uses stainless steel.... hopefully they use something similar because that looks amazing.

s211 · #**4576** Posted: **Jul 12, 2012, 10:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkd

Zinc to fucking stainless steel. FML.

If you use a high end, high grade stainless steel, can you make it look somewhat like zinc? The Walt Disney Concert Hall in LA, a building I absolutely love uses stainless steel.... hopefully they use something similar because that looks amazing.

Please don't scrimp on the exterior, Edmonton. Don't turn it into a bigger version of that dump sport complex that was recently done elsewhere in the city.