The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

You can't close Alberni to cars. There are 3 parkades with access off of Alberni on the Burrard to Thurlow block alone. Most, if not all of the loading for Robson Street is done via the lane so you would be able to close the street to traffic (or close it during certain hours apart from transit like Granville Street). A couple of the older buildings they don't have setbacks to match the newer ones really need to go though (like Cafe Crepe). That would go a long way to help the sidewalk issue before a more drastic measure like removing traffic.

Thanks for that-some the most rabid anti car wank I read on the net is to be found on this thread.

I sometime wonder if some of the posters here just teleport themselves from their boxes-in-the-sky to where they need to go-certainly very few here drive or even have a license.

[s211]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

You can't close Alberni to cars. There are 3 parkades with access off of Alberni on the Burrard to Thurlow block alone. Most, if not all of the loading for Robson Street is done via the lane so you would be able to close the street to traffic (or close it during certain hours apart from transit like Granville Street). A couple of the older buildings they don't have setbacks to match the newer ones really need to go though (like Cafe Crepe). That would go a long way to help the sidewalk issue before a more drastic measure like removing traffic.

Haven't you heard? With a stroke of his imperious pen, Meggs is going to outlaw vehicles. Everywhere! On the planet! Fewer things for him to hit with his bike.

[memememe76]

I'd love to see a major make-over (pedestrian only with an clear glass rain cover a la Seattle Convention Center)

Goodness, why? The vehicular traffic adds to the excitement of Robson and why would we want Robson covered up? It would make Robson look even more like a mall given its existing retail presence.

Besides, I find walking along Pike or Pine in Seattle kinda annoying once I reach the Convention Center. It just makes walking from Pike Place to Capitol Hill (or vice versa) not as pleasant an experience as it could be.

[officedweller]

McDonalds at TV Towers was open this morning.

Ungainly white planters about 3 ft tall (without plants) line the patio area and block sightlines to the store - I hope they change those to shorter planters.

[SpongeG]

i know it can't be closed i don't think any streets should be closed down to traffic in this city

[Metro-One]

I would close Water street myself, but with displaced viaduct traffic soon to be redistributed to Water street (among others in the area), I guess that will not happen. All the masonry work should be re-done as well in Gas town, or at least have it that when work is done bricks have to be re-laid instead of simply patching it with ugly asphalt blotches.

Anyways, I don't understand this hate for Robson, I myself enjoy it quite a bit and it is always busy, but again, my favorite part is the stretch west of the Landmark hotel. But if Japanese / Korean culture / restaurants (again, real Japanese) is not your thing, then you will not car much for that stretch. For me, it is one of my favorite places in the city.

I also agree that the idea posted earlier with the trees being planted along Robson in the middle of the road would be terrible, one of the largest appeals of Robson is its open / bright atmosphere.

[jlousa]

I wouldn't close Water itself completely but I would close the stubs at Carrall/Abbott/Cambie to cars. I could see Water closed completely after 6pm though as the demand on traffic flowing d/t would be lessened at that point and that would be when the demand for pedestrian traffic would be highest at least in the summer months.

[incognism]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

You can't close Alberni to cars. There are 3 parkades with access off of Alberni on the Burrard to Thurlow block alone.

Not only that, but it's all office buildings on the north side of Alberni. You wouldn't be maximizing the benefits to retail since only one side would have retail.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Anyways, I don't understand this hate for Robson, I myself enjoy it quite a bit and it is always busy, but again, my favorite part is the stretch west of the Landmark hotel. But if Japanese / Korean culture / restaurants (again, real Japanese) is not your thing, then you will not car much for that stretch. For me, it is one of my favorite places in the city.

That part of Robson is completely different than the retail stretch from Howe to Bute. The problems with Robson that are being vocalized on this thread concerns the stretch between Howe and Bute.

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I don't quite understand the love for cars on Robson. I concede the point about vehicle traffic livening up the street on dreary weekdays, but I think it's quite clear that the problem with the retail experience on Robson is that it isn't friendly to pedestrians. On a main retail street you want to be able to linger, to window shop, to spend your time leisurely. Right now, the sidewalks are so narrow that stores become a reprieve from pedestrian traffic rather than a destination to visit.

Perhaps closing off the street completely isn't viable. How about removing the parking lane on both sides?

[golog]

The McDonalds at Robson & Hamilton is open, albeit there is still a construction fence because it looks like the patio is unfinished. Lots of TVs, looked nice and busy from the sidewalk. I think there is one CBC Towers storefront vacancy left.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by incognism

Not only that, but it's all office buildings on the north side of Alberni. You wouldn't be maximizing the benefits to retail since only one side would have retail.



That part of Robson is completely different than the retail stretch from Howe to Bute. The problems with Robson that are being vocalized on this thread concerns the stretch between Howe and Bute.

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I don't quite understand the love for cars on Robson. I concede the point about vehicle traffic livening up the street on dreary weekdays, but I think it's quite clear that the problem with the retail experience on Robson is that it isn't friendly to pedestrians. On a main retail street you want to be able to linger, to window shop, to spend your time leisurely. Right now, the sidewalks are so narrow that stores become a reprieve from pedestrian traffic rather than a destination to visit.

Perhaps closing off the street completely isn't viable. How about removing the parking lane on both sides?

where would all the dealerships park their show off cars?

i like robson as it is, its not too bad, its got the shops, further west its got the food, using it as a way to get from one part of the west end to the other is not pleasant but there are plenty of side streets one can use, most people i know who live in the west end avoid robson completey

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by incognism

I don't quite understand the love for cars on Robson. I concede the point about vehicle traffic livening up the street on dreary weekdays, but I think it's quite clear that the problem with the retail experience on Robson is that it isn't friendly to pedestrians. On a main retail street you want to be able to linger, to window shop, to spend your time leisurely. Right now, the sidewalks are so narrow that stores become a reprieve from pedestrian traffic rather than a destination to visit.

Perhaps closing off the street completely isn't viable. How about removing the parking lane on both sides?

For the same reason installing the Granville Street Mall helped kill Granville in the Seventies.

[incognism]

Originally Posted by whatnext

For the same reason installing the Granville Street Mall helped kill Granville in the Seventies.

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Speaking as someone who drives downtown, I can't remember the last time I've driven or parked on Robson. Going to/from the West End, Alberni is a much better option. Parking used to be in the lot on Alberni that's being torn down for Bentall 6, and now is usually one of the lots in the lanes behind Robson.

Again, lack of parking or vehicular access isn't killing Robson right now. Removing the viaducts would have a larger negative impact on Robson than taking two lanes off of Robson.

[Vestry]

Vij's opening up at Cambie and 15th. From the man himself.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

For the same reason installing the Granville Street Mall helped kill Granville in the Seventies.

It works quite well in countless other cities, see the 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica, Lincoln Road in Miami, or Stephen Avenue in redneck Calgary. There's absolutely no reason beyond execution why it could not work on Robson.

That said, I think any change should be spearheaded by the retailers on Robson. If they want a pedestrian mall, so be it. If they want a road, so be it. Customers have ample choices these days and will go where they please. I personally never go to Robson, and likely would not regardless of design, simply because I have zero interest in the stores that are there.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

It works quite well in countless other cities, see the 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica, Lincoln Road in Miami, or Stephen Avenue in redneck Calgary. There's absolutely no reason beyond execution why it could not work on Robson.

...there's actually plenty of reasons namely Lincoln Rd. in Miami has several parkades immediately adjacent to the strip allowing shoppers easy access which Robson does not. Stephen Ave in Calgary allows for cars on it during the evening hours (which was a request of area merchants to keep customers flowing. Vancouver is far too stuck in idealogy to do this).

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by Vestry

Vij's opening up at Cambie and 15th. From the man himself.

When!?! That purple dodge ram with the Vij's canopy has been sitting out back of that building since 2010!

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

...there's actually plenty of reasons namely Lincoln Rd. in Miami has several parkades immediately adjacent to the strip allowing shoppers easy access which Robson does not. Stephen Ave in Calgary allows for cars on it during the evening hours (which was a request of area merchants to keep customers flowing. Vancouver is far too stuck in idealogy to do this).

Stephen Ave (8th Ave) in Calgary also has a dedicated transit street (7th) one short block away, which certainly helps. It also has office towers lining either side of it, which helps bring lots of daytime traffic to the street, as opposed to Robson which is bordered by low rises in the West End.

It would be neat to see Robson be pedestrian only, but only from Granville (or Seymour) to Burrard (possibly Thurlow). However, as one of only three streets that run uninterrupted in the West End (Pacific and Davie being the only others), I'm unsure of where you put the buses. I do believe traffic can adapt, although it would help backups if it were easier to turn right from Hornby to Georgia more easily.

I think there are many things that can be done to help Robson Street without permanently closing it to traffic. It would be interesting to try "parking free" days on weekends in the summer. Close the parking/curb lanes between Burrard and Bute (and the south curb lane between Burrard and Hornby), throw up a bunch of temporary bike racks at the ends and middle of the blocks and allow the rest of the lane be used as expanded sidewalks. No doubt because of the lack of street parking traffic would be reduced but buses could still flow freely. It would be easier to walk up and down the streets and easier to cross. It could also be a pilot project to see how it would affect business.

[sacrifice333]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

When!?! That purple dodge ram with the Vij's canopy has been sitting out back of that building since 2010!

This has been the plan for some time... actually "moving" Vij's from South Granville to Cambie, and a "new" concept for the "old" location. Don't think there's a timeline as of yet... Scout first posted about the move in March 2010!

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by incognism

Perhaps closing off the street completely isn't viable. How about removing the parking lane on both sides?

Yet more rabid anti-car wank.

Note-I drive Robson a couple times a week-in the AM before the rush and during the afternoon rush-killing that street and it's ability to function is just plain stupid.

How would the guests coming and going from the Blue Horizon, The Riviera, the Greenbrier and the Empire Landmark access their hotels-through the kitchens in back?

[incognism]

Originally Posted by Conrad Yablonski

Yet more rabid anti-car wank.

Note-I drive Robson a couple times a week-in the AM before the rush and during the afternoon rush-killing that street and it's ability to function is just plain stupid.

How would the guests coming and going from the Blue Horizon, The Riviera, the Greenbrier and the Empire Landmark access their hotels-through the kitchens in back?

None of those hotels are between Howe and Bute.

Yeah, I'm just so anti-car, since I drive everywhere I go, am against the removal of the viaducts and the rest of Gregor/Meggs/Vision's bullshit plan to starve road capacity in the COV, am heavily concerned about NW council's attitude towards the necessary replacement of the Pattulo Bridge, etc etc etc.

The retail experience on Robson is absolutely terrible. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of Robson shoppers do not utilize the parking on Robson. What is the harm in taking out two lanes of parking over three blocks?

Now you may argue that Robson shouldn't hold the distinction of the main shopping street, or that the COV does not require such an area. That's fine. But if that area wants to cling onto that title, it needs to be improved.

Yeah, it's anecdotal, but I can tell you that many of my friends and colleagues choose to avoid shopping on Robson because it's too crowded and the experience is not enjoyable. A quick glance at the popularity of the former Starbucks' patio on Thurlow/Robson would indicate that many people are yearning for a place to linger on Robson -- if that space existed.

Perhaps it is disappointing that many of the shops on Robson are chain fare that can be found in any suburban mall. That's a fair argument as to why the area isn't performing well. But given that Robson is supposed to be this special destination shopping area, you would assume at the VERY least, that these locations could hold their own against other locations at say...Oakridge, Park Royal, and Metrotown. Yet time and time again, when a store doesn't have stock of a particular item, the common refrain from sales staff is "Oh, our Robson store has stock, would you like me to hold it there for you?".

It seems pretty obvious to me that the main shopping street in Vancouver should be somewhat pedestrian friendly and the benefits that would come by it.