Denver Development Etceteras Thread #5 - Page 98

DownhomeDenver · #**1941** Posted: **Jul 15, 2012, 10:27 PM**

Thats a hard one to say. I understand why some people are wanting to preserve it but I also see pros for demo.

The people protesting the demo want it to be the next urban market. But, this area always seems so disconnected from downtown. I don't know how many people they could truly attract to a market here. Perhaps once DUS is all built out and apartments/projects stretch all the way to 20th, maybe then the Prospect neighborhood won't feel so alienated.

Also remember that a market (The Source) is in planning for Brighton Blvd in the old Bud's Warehouse which seems like it could get more traffic being that it will be located near a light rail stop, located within a thriving RiNo district, not too far of a walk from Ballpark, and there's a lot of I-70 to downtown traffic too. Which could make it more convenient to those that don't necessarily live in walking or even biking distance.

I've been inside this building and I've seen pictures of the interior of Bud's Warehouse. Bud's is definitely in better shape than this property. This warehouse is in bad bad shape. However, it's very distinctive and given a lot of care, could look really nice.

We've lost a lot of great buildings in our city so it's hard to just say DEMO without giving it a little thought. I tend to lean more towards demo just because I want to see more density and more people in this part of town. I would hate to see the building saved and then left empty for another decade because plans fell through for a market or something happens to where a lot of contamination makes a market out of reach.

Perhaps part of it could be saved and integrated into the new apartments being planned? Who knows. I guess we will see what the LPC thinks.

bunt_q · #**1942** Posted: **Jul 15, 2012, 10:38 PM**

You know, after walking by there (and Michelle actually pointed this out, and she knows absolutely nothing about planning or the history, except for my brief 30 second explanation of the situation)... I'd bet the neighbors' real complaints are parking. Those streets are jam packed with cars. I'd also bet the market thing is just an excuse - and if anybody actually tried to do one, they'd squawk about the lack of parking (but nobody's worried, because nobody actually believes a market would work down there). They're probably just scared of adding more residents and losing their free on street parking.

bunt_q · #**1943** Posted: **Jul 15, 2012, 10:45 PM**

So a few pics. If this thing were listed, at best you'd be able to keep a facade. The roof is shot, two walls are worthless, and there are no windows. Basically, you'd have to build a new building around what is salvageable of the old one. A few pics:

On phone, apologies for typos.

DownhomeDenver · #**1944** Posted: **Jul 15, 2012, 11:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You know, after walking by there (and Michelle actually pointed this out, and she knows absolutely nothing about planning or the history, except for my brief 30 second explanation of the situation)... I'd bet the neighbors' real complaints are parking. Those streets are jam packed with cars. I'd also bet the market thing is just an excuse - and if anybody actually tried to do one, they'd squawk about the lack of parking (but nobody's worried, because nobody actually believes a market would work down there). They're probably just scared of adding more residents and losing their free on street parking.

That makes absolutely perfect sense to me. Theyre also going to lose that gravel parking lot next door to this building as well. Ha, what a shame.

sphinx88844 · #**1945** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 1:08 AM**

I say DEMO...but maybe they could recycle the brick in the project that takes it's place? I don't know anything about incorporating recycled brick into new construction so I don't know the costs involved but it could give the new building some character.

glowrock · #**1946** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 1:42 AM**

After seeing Brent's photos, it's a clear-cut decision for me. Demo the thing, period. It's in horrible disrepair, and is basically unable to even BE repurposed at this point. I do like the idea of recycling the brick, maybe building something new that takes some cues from the current structure facade...

And yeah, I think he's also correct in that the big issue is really parking. You know what? Screw people's parking protests in this situation. People aren't entitled to FREE parking downtown. Besides, all of these complexes have garages, so all of the street parking is for second (third?) cars and visitors. Maybe there could be some sort of agreement to build a larger garage for this new potential project and have the residents/owners of complexes in the area chip in for the costs of the additional spaces?

Aaron (Glowrock)

cona · #**1947** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 3:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

Here's some interesting information I found on the Denver right of way website. It looks like Pagliacci's might be closing and the entire site will be redeveloped into a five story apartment project with ground floor retail. The location is 1440 W 33rd Ave. There's a request to vacate the alley pending with the city.

Here's a link to the PDF http://www.denvergov.org/web/PW-Engr...33rd%20ave.pdf

Westword made a comment that the restaurant will be closing in August to make way for an apartment.
http://blogs.westword.com/cafesociet..._red_sauce.php

bcp · #**1948** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 4:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Oh lord, an alley vacation, within a block of one of bcp's projects. I see a riot in our future.

....that is pretty hilarious - just today i was ranting to my GF about the terrible sidewalk presence on lawrence betwen 15th and 16th...the building with Willy G's is AWFUL mid-block at the sidewalk...the culprit? alley vacation resulted in loading docks and slip ramps fronting on the sidewalk...

now, i'll be sad to see pagliaci's go...but the alley in that situation is only about 50 feet that isn't even used as an alley currently...will be great to have a project right there - moved back into it last year....so count on my for lots of construction photos! in another tidbit of good news for the "rough" part of LoHi....the famous Arabian Bar has new owners and they are doing a gut rehab!

i had a thought regarding the historic designation there in prospect - and i love those old buildings, and their amazingly gritty feel...however, this is a nasty situation. if i was the developer i would propose - drop the application in exchange for a) keep the facade b) set the new building back 5-10 feet from the old facade c) density bonus of 10% d) height limit increase.

win win...? could be.

DownhomeDenver · #**1949** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 4:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cona

Westword made a comment that the restaurant will be closing in August to make way for an apartment.
http://blogs.westword.com/cafesociet..._red_sauce.php

Now if I only read the Westword more often. In all my years of being a Denver resident the wife and I have never eaten at Pagliaccis. We may need to give it a try before it's gone for good.

jimluk · #**1950** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 5:43 AM**

The parking idea made me think they could just brace the facade and make it a surface lot/garage for the rest of the block. It is not ideal but the idea behind surface parking is supposed to be land banking, preserving for a "future" economic opportunity.

If they could shoehorn a precast garage behind that facede it would certainly be preferable to living next to the facade-less garages being built in the 2300 walnut and denargo developments.

There is that garage at 14th and Wazee with the brick facade, also I vaguely remember a surface lot on 14th in the 90's with remnants of the old building as "landscaping"

I also thought of this one in Portland, talk about prime real estate.

Link

that being said I like bcp's plan better.

and of course being an architecture nerd, with lots of budget I would try to mirror the facade above itself in steel or sleek glass or something, see Caixa Forum, Madrid by Herzog & de Meuron

balugajames · #**1951** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 3:03 PM**

So, Denargo market is going up and there is the new apartments DenverInfill just reported on off Brighton, however there is another building a few blocks from both of these. It looks like its 3 or 4 stores and currently in the late framing stages.

wong21fr · #**1952** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 3:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by balugajames

So, Denargo market is going up and there is the new apartments DenverInfill just reported on off Brighton, however there is another building a few blocks from both of these. It looks like its 3 or 4 stores and currently in the late framing stages.

I'm guessing that you're talking about the next phase of the TAXI development: Drive

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/pr...oject-for.html

wong21fr · #**1953** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 3:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcp

i had a thought regarding the historic designation there in prospect - and i love those old buildings, and their amazingly gritty feel...however, this is a nasty situation. if i was the developer i would propose - drop the application in exchange for a) keep the facade b) set the new building back 5-10 feet from the old facade c) density bonus of 10% d) height limit increase.

win win...? could be.

I love that solution and think that you should send a suggestion to Pauls Corp to do that. Integrating the existing facade into the new building is a great suggestion. Hell, have it serves as the facade for the parking garage that you know is going to built as part of this thing.

The logical thing is to just tear it down, but I'm not going to be logical. I did an internship for six months across the street from this building and always loved the look of it. Unfortunately, the owner was a complete ass, his ideas for redevelopment were totally unrealistic, and he refused to do any kind maintenance on the building as is evident in the present condition.

Sure, it's decrepit as hell, but let's at least save the facade.

RyanD · #**1954** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 3:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

I'm guessing that you're talking about the next phase of the TAXI development: Drive

Yep. It was featured on DenverUrbanism back in March. (http://denverurbanism.com/2012/03/ri...g-part-ii.html)

http://denverurbanism.com/wp-content.../03/008_SE.jpg

balugajames · #**1955** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 8:03 PM**

Isn't the Taxi complex on the North/West side of the Platte? This construction is on the South/East side.

DenverInfill · #**1956** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 8:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by balugajames

Isn't the Taxi complex on the North/West side of the Platte? This construction is on the South/East side.

Then you'll have to be more specific on the location.

BG918 · #**1957** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 9:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by balugajames

So, Denargo market is going up and there is the new apartments DenverInfill just reported on off Brighton, however there is another building a few blocks from both of these. It looks like its 3 or 4 stores and currently in the late framing stages.

Are you talking about the one near 32nd & Brighton? I've been watching that one go up but don't know anything about it. Looks like 4 stories of apartments next to a storage facility.

I imagine 38th & Brighton will eventually be targeted for apartments/condos. Lots of empty/underused pieces of land around there where the East Line commuter rail station will be located, and where the D line will terminate (someday).

awholeparade · #**1958** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 9:29 PM**

Just for fun: http://www.denverpost.com/susanbarnes-gelt

DenverInfill · #**1959** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 9:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BG918

Are you talking about the one near 32nd & Brighton? I've been watching that one go up but don't know anything about it. Looks like 4 stories of apartments next to a storage facility.

I imagine 38th & Brighton will eventually be targeted for apartments/condos. Lots of empty/underused pieces of land around there where the East Line commuter rail station will be located, and where the D line will terminate (someday).

BG918: Isn't the 32nd & Brighton development you're referring to this one?

http://denverinfill.com/blog/2012/07...er-update.html

But balugajames seems to be aware of this one yet he says that's not it.

I don't believe there is another project in the vicinity of 32nd & Brighton that is under construction that is NOT either Denargo Market or RiNo Center. Anyone?

bunt_q · #**1960** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 11:13 PM**

Susan's column reminded me of one of my own "I'm not having a very good day" rants.