Pan American Stadium | 40m | ? | Under Construction - Page 188

Berklon · #**3741** Posted: **Jul 13, 2012, 1:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Yes, at the top you'll find User CP. Click on it and you'll find Edit Ignore List on the left side.

Sweet... thanks!

This forum just got a lot less douche-ish now.

(Although it's too bad I can still see quoted messages from the undesirables).

mattgrande · #**3742** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 5:59 PM**

http://www.cp24.com/news/tories-warn...ocket-1.880805

Quote:

TORONTO -- The Progressive Conservatives are warning that the cost of the 2015 Pan American Games could skyrocket due to Ontario's outdated labour laws.

Opposition Leader Tim Hudak says $155 million is budgeted to renovate Ivor Wynne Stadium in Hamilton, but he believes it could be up to 40 per cent higher.

Ontario is contributing $22 million towards the stadium, on top of the other costs of hosting the Games.

Hudak says the city has an exclusive contract with one carpenters' union, so all construction projects must go through it.

He says closed tendering is an outdated practice that drives up costs, and will inflate the $1.4-billion price tag for the Games.

Charles Sousa, the minister responsible for the Games, says there's appropriate oversight in place to ensure the budget is managed well.

"Let's be clear, we make no apology for bringing the Games to Ontario," he said Monday in a statement that was released before Hudak's news conference.

But the Tories say the budget doesn't include some large costs, such as building the athletes' village -- which falls to the province -- or providing security for the Games.

"The budget itself that they've released is actually woefully inadequate," said Conservative Rod Jackson. "I mean, my high school prom had a more detailed budget than the Pan Am budget has been showing."

The federal and Ontario governments are contributing $500 million each for the Games. Ontario is also kicking in an additional $22 million to renovate Ivor Wynne Stadium.

The fiscal plan for the Games includes a $82 million contingency fund for cost overruns.

(Emphasis mine)

markbarbera · #**3743** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 6:33 PM**

AFAIK the IO estimate for the Hamilton Pan Am Stadium already factors in the labour costs. On this count, Hudak is simply scare mongering to reinforce his new anti-labour agenda. If anything, the cost estimate on the stadium is high-balled, not lowballed as Hudak "believes".

fuller · #**3744** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 7:19 PM**

Another possibility:

Maybe the current projection is highball for the stadium as it's proposed, but lowball for what will actually be built.

CaptainKirk · #**3745** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 8:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

AFAIK the IO estimate for the Hamilton Pan Am Stadium already factors in the labour costs. On this count, Hudak is simply scare mongering to reinforce his new anti-labour agenda. If anything, the cost estimate on the stadium is high-balled, not lowballed as Hudak "believes".

That's exactly what I thought. Just political rhetoric.

mattgrande · #**3746** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 8:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

AFAIK the IO estimate for the Hamilton Pan Am Stadium already factors in the labour costs. On this count, Hudak is simply scare mongering to reinforce his new anti-labour agenda. If anything, the cost estimate on the stadium is high-balled, not lowballed as Hudak "believes".

Reading about recent construction of similar sized stadiums seem to imply that our price is high balled. I don't trust anything Hudak says, so this is probably the case here.

SteelTown · #**3747** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 9:37 PM**

Based on what I read any cost overrun the province will pay for it it entirely.

bigguy1231 · #**3748** Posted: **Jul 16, 2012, 10:01 PM**

Hudak's a dick.

drpgq · #**3749** Posted: **Jul 17, 2012, 1:10 AM**

If Hudak does get in, at least Hamilton will get out of the Carpenters ridiculousness. I can't see McGuinty doing anything about it and obviously Horwath won't.

isaidso · #**3750** Posted: **Jul 17, 2012, 1:59 AM**

Even if it does cost $60 million more it wouldn't make an ounce of difference to me. I'd rather than spent the money to build this right. Hamilton will have to make do with this facility for at least the next half century.

markbarbera · #**3751** Posted: **Jul 17, 2012, 11:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drpgq

If Hudak does get in, at least Hamilton will get out of the Carpenters ridiculousness.

Maybe he will repeal the anti-slavery laws too - imagine the money we'd save building the stadium if he did that too!

drpgq · #**3752** Posted: **Jul 17, 2012, 8:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Maybe he will repeal the anti-slavery laws too - imagine the money we'd save building the stadium if he did that too!

I'm not a member of the Carpenter's Union, so I would prefer that companies could freely bid on city projects regardless of their employee organization. I'm not sure of what the story is with the stadium (although I am curious), but I was speaking more generally. Further, as a computer vision researcher, I would prefer robots to slaves.

realcity · #**3753** Posted: **Jul 20, 2012, 9:04 PM**

forget about all that. IO is doing the tendering. They shortlisted 3 design build teams last year. They went away and designed something that could be built with $150 million. We'll see the winning design build in a few months.

realcity · #**3754** Posted: **Jul 20, 2012, 9:09 PM**

.

bigguy1231 · #**3755** Posted: **Aug 9, 2012, 5:22 AM**

This is what the little town of Allen, Texas just built for their high school football team. It cost them $60 million has 18,000 seats and even has corporate boxes. Why are we getting basically the same for $160 miilion and for a professional football team. This city should be very embarassed to be outdone by a high school in small town Texas.

Here's a link to the story and more pictures: http://sports.yahoo.com/photos/high-...688-slideshow/

CaptainKirk · #**3756** Posted: **Aug 9, 2012, 5:26 AM**

It`s got benches for seats.

Hamilton`s stadium will be better than that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd6pTgHN5sY

bigguy1231 · #**3757** Posted: **Aug 9, 2012, 6:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk

It`s got benches for seats.

Hamilton`s stadium will be better than that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd6pTgHN5sY

So an extra $10 million for seats with backs, big deal. It's still less than half the price we are paying.

My point is and always has been that we are getting a minor league stadium which will be totally useless for the future needs of this city. That high school in that little town puts this city to shame.

pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce · #**3758** Posted: **Aug 9, 2012, 11:32 AM**

As a sports fan, I've no issue with benches. Save some money and make the nose-bleeds bleacher seating. Put that saved money towards some other element of the stadium. Football fans shouldn't be leaning back anyway; they should be standing up and screaming at the visiting team.

Bench seating at Harvard Stadium.

CaptainKirk · #**3759** Posted: **Aug 9, 2012, 12:26 PM**

^^^^Yeah, I'm ok with the bench seating too, but nicer is nicer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

So an extra $10 million for seats with backs, big deal. It's still less than half the price we are paying.

Yes, it is less than half, but we have no detailed account of what either price includes, and there is no way to compare the two stadiums right now, especially since not much is revealed of the high school stadium in Texas and no plans have been revealed yet for Hamilton's.

Quote:

My point is and always has been that we are getting a minor league stadium which will be totally useless for the future needs of this city. That high school in that little town puts this city to shame.

Why do you think we are getting "a minor league stadium which will be totally useless for the future needs of this city"?

All the accounts I've read indicate Hamilton is getting a top notch modern facility.

durandy · #**3760** Posted: **Aug 9, 2012, 1:06 PM**

I wonder what impact labour laws have on the contract. We have to hire union workers from the brotherhood of carpenters or something. I imagine Texas is a bit different!