Denver Area Transportation Thread

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Take my word for it, if some municipality up there really really really wanted PRT, sooner or later it would get added to the program.

Boulder already has PRT. What do you think bikesharing is?

The funny thing is, PRT advocates hate bikesharing, even though it's by-far the most successful implementation of their idea ever, because it feeds to transit rather than replaces transit, and because it isn't high-tech and elevated.

[Cirrus]

I-225 light rail news.

Originally Posted by Progressive Railroading Daily News

Denver RTD to contract Kiewit Infrastructure to build I-225 light-rail line
http://www.progressiverailroading.co...s.asp?id=31816

Denver’s Regional Transportation District (RTD) soon will have another FasTracks line under construction. Yesterday, the agency’s board approved a proposal by Kiewit Infrastructure Co. to complete the I-225 light-rail line to Peoria, Colo.

In March, the consortium — which comprises Kiewit Corp., Mass. Electric Construction Co., AECOM and RBC Capital Markets — approached RTD staff with an “unsolicited proposal” to build the line by November 2015, according to a press release. After reviewing the proposal, RTD officials launched a competitive bidding process. Balfour Beatty Ames Joint Venture also bid on the project.

Once RTD finalizes contract negotiations with Kiewit and issues a notice to proceed, expected later this summer, Kiewit can begin building the second phase of the I-225 project

[bunt_q]

So Aurora needs some love this week. I-225 getting approved is a start. Normally I would dive into how stupid this line is. (Not on principle, but as-conceived/as-designed. I will add, though, if you're going to be this slow, you may as well run it more like a streetcar and have more than one station during the jaunt away from the highway ROW.) But we'll set that aside for a moment. I am curious, if you were Aurora, what would you do around the City Center Station? There is a TON of land there. They literally could build an entire downtown.

[FrancoRey]

Wow. Didn't expect that alignment. That looks pretty stupid. I agree; might as well make it a streetcar! What a waste of time for commuters trying to get to the DIA line or the eventual Fitsimmons/Colfax line.

Couldn't they just keep an Interstate focused corridor and treat the U spur around the Aurora Mall as a secondary line? They could start with a bus shuttle or car trolly system. Then, if ridership merited it, put in a fixed track or streetcar. But to dedicate full lightrail into a loop like that is just plain retarded, IMO.

Whatever. It's not my money they're wasting, right? I forget the whole funding mess going on behind this particular corridor.

Honestly, I would advocate demolishing Aurora Mall and turning that whole area into a TOD area and Downtown. You could almost triple the land to develop! Aurora could make this their own CBD if they developed it right. Maybe not like a Union Station neighborhood, but definitely something like a Landmark/Greenwood Village area with a bigger share of a Belmar-like retail area to make up for the lost mall.

[rds70]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I am curious, if you were Aurora, what would you do around the City Center Station? There is a TON of land there. They literally could build an entire downtown.

Aurora has tried to make that area "downtown" for at least 30 years. Here is the most recent plan:

http://www.auroraedc.com/media/docs/...etroCenter.pdf

[Cirrus]

"City Center Station Park & Ride"

I wonder how much more it would have cost to do an elevated station at Abilene and Alamada instead. That would give you the speed of a highway line, with almost as much development potential as the Sable station. Elevated is expensive, sure, but you'd be saving distance.

[SnyderBock]

RTD could always extend LRT between Exposition and Ellsworth, at some point in the future. Then possibly with a future Colfax streetcar, just tie it into the I-225 LRT at Fitzsimmons and have one streetcar line go north down LRT track to East Corridor transfer station and the other streetcar line go south to Aurora City center, using this on-street loop. All full LRT vehicles could then bypass this loop and stay on the I-225 ROW.

[Cirrus]

Well, I mean, we rightly criticize TREX for not leaving the highway at the Tech Center, and we rightly complain that the East corridor doesn't hit Stapleton more directly. Here Aurora has done what we always request, and it turns out we're upset about that too.

I like that they deviated from the highway, because it tells us they're serious about TOD. And you know, I don't think I really care too much that it will slow down the through riders, because this is going to be a pretty low-ridership route with not very many through riders anyway.

I do think that a better alternative would have been an elevated section that could have kept speeds a little higher, but I don't think we should fault Aurora for having a little bit of long term vision.

[bunt_q]

If this was the only slow jog, maybe it would be different. But this is going to be slow from Iliff all the way to the airport line. But anyways...that 2nd and Abilene Station says a lot about RTD. Make a major detour from the highway for one station, fine, but why wait until you get back to the highway and then immediately have a station there, rather than 1/4 mile to the south where it would be walkable to three times as much stuff? The answer, of course, is that they wanted a park-n-ride. The station locations are...odd.

[bobg]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

If this was the only slow jog, maybe it would be different. But this is going to be slow from Iliff all the way to the airport line. But anyways...that 2nd and Abilene Station says a lot about RTD. Make a major detour from the highway for one station, fine, but why wait until you get back to the highway and then immediately have a station there, rather than 1/4 mile to the south where it would be walkable to three times as much stuff? The answer, of course, is that they wanted a park-n-ride. The station locations are...odd.

My understanding is that the 2nd and Abilene station and the 13th station are largely there for their TOD potential. They can also initially develop those empty (greenfield?) lots near the station so they can get some quick TOD without having to re-develop.

The 2nd/Abilene and 13th stations will have park and rides, but they are similar in size to the one planned at 38th and Blake. IIRC the Abilene station intentionally has it's parking lot further away from the station so they can develop TOD closer to the platform.

But as is apparent the efficiency of the line has been compromised quite a bit (likely more than any other Fastracks line) in order to facilitate TOD. Maybe it will turn out to be a good thing or maybe it will backfire. If I lived near the DTC and wanted to take this to the airport line I may be a little upset with those compromises. If I lived in Aurora and this fuels some high quality TOD near the stations I think I would be happy with those compromises.

Fortunately over time RTD can find ways to make the LRT more efficient if needed. Initially signal prioritization, then bypassing busy intersections, and if needed full grade separation. The good part about this being at grade in Aurora is that it's going through a suburban street layout which results in less intersections which should make signal prioritization easier and more effective for a while.

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

RTD could always extend LRT between Exposition and Ellsworth, at some point in the future. Then possibly with a future Colfax streetcar, just tie it into the I-225 LRT at Fitzsimmons and have one streetcar line go north down LRT track to East Corridor transfer station and the other streetcar line go south to Aurora City center, using this on-street loop. All full LRT vehicles could then bypass this loop and stay on the I-225 ROW.

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Well, I mean, we rightly criticize TREX for not leaving the highway at the Tech Center, and we rightly complain that the East corridor doesn't hit Stapleton more directly. Here Aurora has done what we always request, and it turns out we're upset about that too.

I like that they deviated from the highway, because it tells us they're serious about TOD. And you know, I don't think I really care too much that it will slow down the through riders, because this is going to be a pretty low-ridership route with not very many through riders anyway.

I do think that a better alternative would have been an elevated section that could have kept speeds a little higher, but I don't think we should fault Aurora for having a little bit of long term vision.

Suppose at a future date, RTD did build a bypass of the Aurora City Center, along I-225 for express service. Then suppose at a future date, RTD also built a Denver Tech Center loop which deviates from the highway, similar to this one in the Aurora City Center. Then suppose RTD ran two lines, one for faster express service which sticks to highway ROW/Stations and another for local service which deviates from the highways to serve the Denver Tech Center, Aurora City Center and TODs.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

Suppose at a future date, RTD did build a bypass of the Aurora City Center, along I-225 for express service. Then suppose at a future date, RTD also built a Denver Tech Center loop which deviates from the highway, similar to this one in the Aurora City Center. Then suppose RTD ran two lines, one for faster express service which sticks to highway ROW/Stations and another for local service which deviates from the highways to serve the Denver Tech Center, Aurora City Center and TODs.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. You choose one or the other. Believe it or not, there are other spending priorities in the metro area. We don't just decide, "hey, we can't decide, so let's spend money for both." Why not just have 3 different routes for the same route? Why not 10? Hell, let's just build a train on every street (we all did that once upon a time in the very first SimCity game, why not try it here?).

Snyder, your attitude is exactly why we can't get good transportation decisions (or good political decisions of any kind) anymore in the U.S. Your attitude is exactly why the U.S. 36 plan looks like it does.

[Cirrus]

The practical reason why you probably wouldn't do that even if you wanted to is that you'd be getting only 1/2 the service on both routes. Odds are it would reduce ridership, because it would increase headways too much.

[Zmapper]

http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20...xt%7CFRONTPAGE

"The city’s new late-night bus service is giving rides to more than 1,500 people a month, which transit managers call a success just six months into operations.

The $1-a-ride bus service runs on two routes serving student areas of the city, and is open to anyone. Drivers loop west of College Avenue every 15 minutes, delivering tipsy college students and other riders home from an evening out.

Funding for the yearlong pilot project comes from fare revenue, $50,000 from the police department’s camera radar fund and $34,000 from CSU's student government."

I happened to pass the night buses last Friday around Midnight, and from the limited observations I made they were well used. It is interesting, and a sad reflection on our financial situation, that the most frequent bus route in the city runs not at 2pm, but at 2am!

[bunt_q]

Why is that a sad reflection? At 2pm folks should be at work (or in class), not on the bus.

[Zmapper]

Yes, because EVERYONE works from exactly 9 am to 5 pm. Stay-at-home parents, seniors, students with off periods... they just don't exist at all.

[Cirrus]

Is it *really* the most frequent bus route in the city? I doubt that very much.

[Zmapper]

Yea, the night bus is actually the most frequent route:

http://www.fcgov.com/transfort/pdf/green-bw.pdf - 15 minute headway.

http://www.fcgov.com/transfort/pdf/01-bw.pdf - 20 minute headway.

http://www.fcgov.com/transfort/pdf/11-bw.pdf - 20 minute headway.

Though to be fair, the 11 has a trailer bus follow it during morning rush hour.

[bunt_q]

The implied assumption in your post is that the people running Ft. Collins' transit are total morons. Is it possible that the most transit-friendly segment of that city's population is students? Yes. Is it possible that the highest demand for that particular segment is late night? Absolutely. More importantly, is it possible that the absolute most critical hour to provide a viable alternative to the private automobile is at 2am? I would think so.

Or it could just be some grand conspiracy. Or government incompetence. Take your pick.

It couldn't possibly be because the transit agency and CSU saw a need to keep a few thousand drunken 20-somethings, in what is still a college town, off the roads at 2am, and felt that was the absolute best use of their limited resources. [sarcasm]

My advice to you is that if you want to live in a city with frequent transit at all times of day, move to a bigger city.

[Elrod]

Whatever happened with e-ticketing or whatever it's called?
I saw the one go up on california briefly early this year and have heard nothing since?