The Official Lansdowne Park Revitalization Thread

[JeffB]

I think the idea of a 20,000 concert hall is more hyperbole than reality.

However I do think some opponents of the development often tend to overlook issues like cost if it were for something that they would like better than a stadium, condos and retail. For instance - a park. We know from the design competition winner that the parkland will cost around $40M. Doing the whole site as a park would cost a lot more. And it would be next to impossible to make that money back seeing as parks have little to no revenue attached to them. But that isn't important to these folks, because they are getting a park.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by JeffB

I think the idea of a 20,000 concert hall is more hyperbole than reality.

However I do think some opponents of the development often tend to overlook issues like cost if it were for something that they would like better than a stadium, condos and retail. For instance - a park. We know from the design competition winner that the parkland will cost around $40M. Doing the whole site as a park would cost a lot more. And it would be next to impossible to make that money back seeing as parks have little to no revenue attached to them. But that isn't important to these folks, because they are getting a park.

How about an amusement park? Just make sure you leave out the "amusement" part of it when talking to the Glebites.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

How about an amusement park? Just make sure you leave out the "amusement" part of it when talking to the Glebites.

I believe there were a few people suggesting something along the lines of the Tivoli Gardens in Copenhagen. Initially I thought it was just some sort of botanical garden, but it turns out there is an amusement park as part of it.

But then instead of the cost without recovery not being a problem, there would be no issues with traffic or parking - since it was something that appealed to them...

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by phil235

Agreed. I'm not sure exactly what caused the building to be rated as having low historical value, but it does seem to be the kind of versatile structure that could have been readapted to a new use. Given the familiarity of the building, it would have provided a link to the former uses of the site.

Indeed, it has long been a familiar face along Bank Street, and given that so few of the former buildings on the Lansdowne site have survived, it would have been nice to keep it intact and adaptively reuse it, in conjunction with the other heritage buildings. Instead, we get (almost) a tabula rasa on which the developers can draw out their commercial fantasies.

Originally Posted by phil235

I suspect that some of the reluctance to re-use comes down to the usual issue - years of neglect have put the building into such poor shape that it isn't feasible to keep.

I would say that the Horticulture Building is in much worse condition than the Coliseum. Of course the only reason the Horticulture Building or Aberdeen Pavilion are to be preserved is because they have heritage designations. Without that, I'm quite certain they would also be being swept away.

Still, it wouldn't have taken much to at least preserve the facade and paste it on to one of the new buildings, as was done with the facade of the old Metropolitan Church on the new condos at Bank and Gladstone:

[Kitchissippi]

Not a fan of drastic Facadism, especially if the function of the building is completely different. A bunch of bricklayers could have easily reproduced that unremarkable church facade with some improvements -- really, do those ugly grilles have to intersect with the cornice?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Not a fan of drastic Facadism, especially if the function of the building is completely different. A bunch of bricklayers could have easily reproduced that unremarkable church facade with some improvements -- really, do those ugly grilles have to intersect with the cornice?

Your right, this thing would be easy to reproduce.

The Coliseum had so much more detail and elegance. And when considering it's usage over the years, I think it has way more historic value than both the Metropolitan Bible Church and the Horticulture Building.

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Your right, this thing would be easy to reproduce.

The Coliseum had so much more detail and elegance. And when considering it's usage over the years, I think it has way more historic value than both the Metropolitan Bible Church and the Horticulture Building.

Indeed, preserving the whole of the Coliseum building would have been the most preferable. But it seems as though it was never in the cards as far as the developers were concerned from the outset. This is how I remember it from the 1970s. Faded glory, with the marquee shorn away, but still distinctive:



Although it is all academic now. Apparently a few of the decorative fragments (such as the date stone from the front cornice, shown below) have been retained and MAY be integrated somewhere in the new buildings:



Although the history of the Coliseum may have been greater, in terms of concerts held there and so forth, I think that the designation for the Horticulture Bldg was on its heritage value, based on the architect, Francis C. Sullivan's association with Frank Lloyd Wright, and his adaptation of Wrights's so-called Prairie Style of architecture for the building.

Nonetheless, it would have seemed like less of a 1960s clearance project if they had retained the Coliseum too, as the Lansdowne Park Conservancy proposed:

[Kitchissippi]

Those pools are a useless barrier for pedestrians, and a high maintenance feature. All the leaves from those trees and blowing trash are going to end up in it, someone is going to have to skim it regularly. Most similar water features in the city has been filled in. Aside from its French-style grand axis, I don't see anything that would entice people to walk down that corridor, but it would be a haven for the Glebe's skater kids.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Those pools are a useless barrier for pedestrians, and a high maintenance feature. All the leaves from those trees and blowing trash are going to end up in it, someone is going to have to skim it regularly. Most similar water features in the city has been filled in. Aside from its French-style grand axis, I don't see anything that would entice people to walk down that corridor, but it would be a haven for the Glebe's skater kids.

What other similar water features? The only one I know of is at Place de Ville's plaza. I can't recall seeing any others in my life.

[Kitchissippi]

There was one on Sparks Street between the Bank of Canada and 240 Sparks. It produced the illusion that water from the Bank's winter garden flowed across the street and into a waterfall inside 240.

The Rideau Centre had water features, too, by the elevators.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

There was one on Sparks Street between the Bank of Canada and 240 Sparks. It produced the illusion that water from the Bank's winter garden flowed across the street and into a waterfall inside 240.

The Rideau Centre had water features, too, by the elevators.

Never seen those. But I remember water features in the Promenade de l'Outaouais and a fountain at the St-Laurent Shopping Centres that were taken out.

[kilroy]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Never seen those. But I remember water features in the Promenade de l'Outaouais and a fountain at the St-Laurent Shopping Centres that were taken out.

Bayshore Shopping Centre used to have a fountain on the ground floor. I remember being very disturbed by the statues as a kid.

[TMA-1]

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South side lights were always blinding me on my balcony. I wonder how bad the lighting will be once the new construction is done?
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/7811384222/

[KHOOLE]

The Coliseum Building at Lansdowne Park was demolished in August 2012 for the Lansdowne Park public-private redevelopment plan for a mixed-use area

Demolition pictures can be seen at:

https://picasaweb.google.com/jcdube2...litionAug2012#

[concernedottawa]

Originally Posted by KHOOLE

The 1926 Bank Street addition to the Coliseum was demolished August 20, 2012
[/url]

The new clear space has just increased the viability of a competitive bidding process for the development of Lansdowne Park.

As mentioned earlier ( see post )the space required for a break even point is in the 180,00 sq ft range.

Old Coliseum Buildings roughly 45,000 sq ft.

New structure will be a two level market style structure promoting local small business, with a footprint of roughly 520 x 150 or about 110,000 sq ft including mezzanine level.

New park lease space under P3 competition:
New Market Building 110,000 sq ft
Lower level North Stands 30,000 sq ft
Main level North Stands retail 5,000 sq ft
Horticulture Building 25,000 sq ft
Additional service retail pavilion for lawn 10,000 sq ft
Total 180,000 sq ft

In addition you have 36,000 sq ft of flexible space in the Aberdeen Pavillion for Farmers Market in the winter and special events throughout the year. Average annual daily rentals for the Aberdeen Pavilion are $6,000 daily net. Farmers Market in winter would pay a reduced rate.

Average net lease rate of $28 per sq ft on the 180,000 sq ft ( plus additional revenues and the $3.8M annual "avoided costs" revenue gives you more than enough to cover park costs, including mortgage.

The tear down of the Coliseum Buildings has just increased the opportunity for a competitive bid.

Without the towers you strategically locate parking around the perimeter of the park. But you don't charge ( except for special events ). You attract visitors to the park and include parking into the lease rate.

Ironically the City of Ottawa has invited the Project for Public Spaces ( PPS ) to visit Ottawa to examine the Byward Market.

Perhaps the PPS will be examining Lansdowne Park as well.

[concernedottawa]

Looks like plans are already in the works by one bidder:


From the Lansdowne Park Conservancy website
http://www.lpc-cpl.ca/images/siteplan2.jpg

Original site plan:



From the Lansdowne Park Conservancy website
http://www.lpc-cpl.ca/images/siteplan.jpg

[matty14]

Really Johnny? We're gonna exhume this horse just to beat it to death again?

[concernedottawa]

From the Lansdowne Park Conservancy website
August 21, 2012 http://www.lpc-cpl.ca/index.php?option=com_media&id=123

[jeremy_haak]

*sigh*
I know that the whole idea of a forum is to discuss things, but sometimes I wish all this lpc stuff could be sequestered into another thread like that personal rapid transit nonsense was.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

*sigh*
I know that the whole idea of a forum is to discuss things, but sometimes I wish all this lpc stuff could be sequestered into another thread like that personal rapid transit nonsense was.

oh wait, we did! http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=182064