Scorching Phoenix Plans For An Even Hotter Future - Page 3

atlantaguy · #41 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 9:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford

No, it doesn't. The West does not have additional water capacity, and they're already absolutely screwing Mexico on the Colorado River. If Mexico ever takes its water, there will be a political and economic catastrophe.

The fact is that Phoenix was built on a foundation of federally subsidized water, agriculture, mining and ranching. This isn't sustainable, and it's time we look more creatively at housing such a population.

You have absolutely no clue of what you are talking about.

Yet AGAIN, educate yourself a little. You clearly don't know as much as you suppose you do.

Crawford · #42 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 9:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

How is Phoenix's water any less sustainable than Cairo's.

Because Phoenix is in the worst possible location, and Cairo is in the best possible location. Cairo is like the "Vermont" of Egypt in terms of relative sustainability.

I'm not sure why the two are being compared. If anything, Cairo would be the ideal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

And this nonsense you're spouting about Cairo making sense for Egyptians but Phoenix not for Americans assumes that urban systems arise without any relation to region or local geography; that national affiliation is paramount. Which is absurd.

No, you completely missed the point. Cairo makes sense specifically because of regional geography, and Phoenix makes no sense specifically because of regional geography. Obviously the national boundaries matter as a context for what is the "best" potential location for a population, as there's no point in saying that Egypt should house its population in Melbourne.

Crawford · #43 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 9:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

You have absolutely no clue of what you are talking about.

Yet AGAIN, educate yourself a little. You clearly don't know as much as you suppose you do.

I know enough to know that you couldn't be more wrong, and that Phoenix is a city built on federally subsidized, unsustainable uses.

If there's something specific I said that's wrong, please point it out. Otherwise, why waste your time?

atlantaguy · #44 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 9:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford

I know enough to know that you couldn't be more wrong, and that Phoenix is a city built on federally subsidized, unsustainable uses.

If there's something specific I said that's wrong, please point it out. Otherwise, why waste your time?

Sorry, but the burden of proof is on you - not me. You are the one that came charging into this thread with all of this personal opinion/ bias posing as fact.

I've noticed over the years that you are never, ever wrong - no matter what the subject may be. I'm beyond comfortable in the fact that yet again you happen to be totally misinformed, but absolutely refuse to admit it. This is the norm for you.

I suspect you are just one more of the lemmings that hate Phoenix - period.

Crawford · #45 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 9:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Sorry, but the burden of proof is on you - not me. You are the one that came charging into this thread with all of this personal opinion/ bias posing as fact.

You're asking me to provide evidence that the Federal Govt. built the SW on subsidized water, agriculture, mining and ranching? That's a dissertation, and no, I'm not going to write one in my spare time. A quick Google search will satisfy your curiosity.

At it's core, you disagree with the contention that there's a water crisis in the SW U.S. The leading water authorities in the SW (the managers of all the regional water authorities) all say the same, and global warming will reduce SW water levels by 10-20% in the next two decades. Just google the various authorities, and their comments.

atlantaguy · #46 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford

You're asking me to provide evidence that the Federal Govt. built the SW on subsidized water, agriculture, mining and ranching? That's a dissertation, and no, I'm not going to write one in my spare time. A quick Google search will satisfy your curiosity.

At it's core, you disagree with the contention that there's a water crisis in the SW U.S. The leading water authorities in the SW (the managers of all the regional water authorities) all say the same, and global warming will reduce SW water levels by 10-20% in the next two decades. Just google the various authorities, and their comments.

Nice, yet typical deflection. This is NOT about the entire Southwest, this is about metropolitan Phoenix. A place that has the water resources readily available to support four times its present population.

You are proving my point very nicely.

Crawford · #47 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 9:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Nice, yet typical deflection. This is NOT about the entire Southwest, this is about metropolitan Phoenix. A place that has the water resources readily available to support four times its present population.

It's frankly kind of a "tinfoil hat" response to claim that there's no Phoenix area water crisis, when the actual water management authorities for Metropolitan Phoenix and other SW metropolitan areas directly contradict your claims. There is, in fact, a crisis.

atlantaguy · #48 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 9:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford

It's frankly kind of a "tinfoil hat" response to claim that there's no Phoenix area water crisis, when the actual water management authorities for Metropolitan Phoenix and other SW metropolitan areas directly contradict your claims. There is, in fact, a crisis.

Which you absolutey refuse to prove. Again, never wrong, ever.

Crawford · #49 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 9:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Which you absolutey refuse to prove. Again, never wrong, ever.

What do you want me to prove? You want links to article indicating that yes, in fact, there is a SW water crisis, and yes, the local authorities confirm this to be the case?

Is the WSJ too liberal?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...641659148.html

Is the Smithsonian too scholarly?
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...-Runs-Dry.html

Are archiologists too brainy?
http://www.archaeology.org/1103/insi...s_hohokam.html

austlar1 · #50 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 9:57 PM**

Oh, heck. Here is the skinny on PHX's water supply which mostly does not come from the Colorado River and is much more stable than one might imagine given the location of the metro area in the middle of a desert.

http://phoenixwaterfronttalk.com/200...-water-supply/

http://phoenix.gov/waterservices/wrc...ter/index.html

Jasonhouse · #51 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 10:05 PM**

I could see 3-6 floor courtyard apartments becoming more popular. Maybe even with the courtyard being covered and climate controlled with evaporative cooling.

Private Dick · #52 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 10:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Cairo - 19.4 million
Tehran - 13.4 million
Baghdad - 7.6 million
Riyadh - 6.8 million
Khartoum - 5.3 million
Addis Ababa - 4.6 million

Well, then this puts Phoenix in some great company! All such wonderful places to live!! So glad the US has a representative in the highly enviable club.

Come on, let's just get it all out... Phoenix is a hot ugly sprawling mess in the fucking desert with a piss poor excuse for a skyline and a redneck sheriff. People from Houston and Atlanta and other such bullshit locales often defend it because Phoenix is like their retarded little brother. blah blah blah

Will we ever get to the point where everyone realizes that Phoenix is just not a very popular place here at "the world's finest resource for skyscraper and urbanism enthusiasts" and just accept it?

And as for Phoenix getting even hotter? I say let the dumb fuckers who choose to live in a goddamn desert burn!

Private Dick · #53 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 10:38 PM**

^ Oh yeah, that was all satire by the way... no one in their right mind would ever say such outlandish things.

Jasonhouse · #54 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 10:40 PM**

lol!

In the mean time, what happened to the topic?

Gordo · #55 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 10:41 PM**

We seem to have one of these water arguments on SSP at least once a year, and as usual, no one seems to really grasp that:

1. There is a huge problem with too much water being used in the southwest
2. This has almost nothing to do with the population of residents increasing, and everything to do with water rights for agriculture negotiated a century ago

I can't seem to find it now, but there is the oft-posted study (don B probably has it filed away somewhere

) showing that in the 90's and 00's when Phoenix was growing at its highest rate, aggregate water use in the metro area was actually DROPPING, as most of the new housing was replacing agricultural land (the real water hog). An acre of housing, at almost any density, uses less water than an acre of lettuce or cotton. And yes, it's absolutely absurd that a water-intensive crop like cotton is grown in Arizona, but that's due to water rights negotiated a century ago never being altered, not because of air conditioning or people moving to the desert to live.

M II A II R II K · #56 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 10:43 PM**

This thread isn't about water supplies, but the how to deal with the heat and potentially more heat down the road.

SHiRO · #57 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 10:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

lol!

In the mean time, what happened to the topic?

What always happens on this forum... We have a select few members here who think it's their duty (or maybe they just derive pleasure from it, I don't know) to run their mouths and float all kinds of bullshit around about places they know next to nothing about and in the process cause the members with true interest and knowledge about these places to loose interest or get frustrated and ultimately leave this forum.

These kind of forumers are experts on Berlin's economy one week and Phoenix' water supply the next and are never ever wrong...

Gordo · #58 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 10:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by M II A II R II K

This thread isn't about water supplies, but the how to deal with the heat and potentially more heat down the road.

And dealing with that heat is mostly through the use of swamp coolers, which rely on water

Crawford · #59 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 11:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by austlar1

Oh, heck. Here is the skinny on PHX's water supply which mostly does not come from the Colorado River and is much more stable than one might imagine given the location of the metro area in the middle of a desert.

A majority of Phoenix Metro's water comes from groundwater, which is rapidly being depleted, and is suffering the same fate as the Colorado. The sources aren't sustainable, whether from the aquifiers or the Colorado.

Omaharocks · #60 Posted: **Aug 19, 2012, 11:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford

A majority of Phoenix Metro's water comes from groundwater, which is rapidly being depleted, and is suffering the same fate as the Colorado. The sources aren't sustainable, whether from the aquifiers or the Colorado.

"Phoenix has long recognized that water is a most precious resource in its arid, desert environment. Phoenix has taken great care to plan, acquire and manage its water resources, including innovative water conservation, recharge and reclamation programs. Phoenix has had a water conservation program since the 1980's, and has steadily reduced its reliance on groundwater from 35 percent in 1984 to 3 percent today." - phoenix.gov

Crawford, you make a lot of assertions on skyscraperpage (on a varied array of topics) that you do a good job of passing off as facts. It's clear that you have some knowledge about much of what you speak, but you are not an expert on all things.