Are Phoenix and Vegas part of the LA hinterlands?

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

People from San Diego hate LA for the most part and LA views SD as a cute place to visit for a couple days. Same exact as LA and SF.

I agree. I love LA, but many San Diegans love to bring up LA's problems and how they'd never move up there.

As for the many people trying to rationalize that Vegas is more like LA than Phoenix, this is a ridiculous discussion. All 3 cities are so drastically different from one another. I guarantee that there are far more southern Californians that now live in Phx metro than Vegas.

Outside of the strip of mega hotels (all tourists, non residents) Vegas isnt very glorious or cosmopolitan at all.

[novawolverine]

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog

I agree. I love LA, but many San Diegans love to bring up LA's problems and how they'd never move up there.

As for the many people trying to rationalize that Vegas is more like LA than Phoenix, this is a ridiculous discussion. All 3 cities are so drastically different from one another. I guarantee that there are far more southern Californians that now live in Phx metro than Vegas.

Outside of the strip of mega hotels (all tourists, non residents) Vegas isnt very glorious or cosmopolitan at all.

The OP was asking about the relationship and interaction between cities more than whether there's a common culture or whatnot between the cities.

[kool maudit]

they're not hinterlands, they're nodes an an inter-related southwestern economy.

[Lipani]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

What I'm interested in is how San Diego and L.A. view each other?

For the most part we're indifferent towards one another. We lack the historical rivalries that you tend to find in the Northeast and Upper Midwest. L.A. is obviously the bigger city with far more cultural amenities. San Diegans, though, prefer things to be more low-key.

[Buckeye Native 001]

If anything, there's probably more of a connection between San Diego and Phoenix than LA-Phoenix. We Arizonans sure as hell love vacationing in SD in the summertime...

[pesto]

Originally Posted by Lipani

For the most part we're indifferent towards one another. We lack the historical rivalries that you tend to find in the Northeast and Upper Midwest. L.A. is obviously the bigger city with far more cultural amenities. San Diegans, though, prefer things to be more low-key.

That is pretty accurate. Most people in LA think SD is a nice place, much more relaxed and recreational. Similarly, LA doesn't seem to have the anti-SF passion that SF has about LA. In fact, people in LA don't seem to really dislike anybody except Frank McCourt.

LV is culturally closer to LA if you are talking about the strip, clubs, upmarket food, etc. But it's closer to the IE (and Phoenix) if you get off the Strip. Of course part of the reason is that about 1/3 of the people on the Strip are from LA.

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by mhays

People who don't value urbanity live there. Lots of people are like that. It's getting better in that regard but still. Also people who can stand the heat.

Pretty broad statement. You've obviously never been to Downtown Phoenix, Tempe or Scottsdale. And yes, its hot for 4 months, thats the beauty of being 1 hour flight away from SoCal.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

Pretty broad statement. You've obviously never been to Downtown Phoenix, Tempe or Scottsdale. And yes, its hot for 4 months, thats the beauty of being 1 hour flight away from SoCal.

Nothing against Phoenix, but Scottsdale, Tempe and downtown Phoenix are about as urban as Woodland Hills or the OC (by which I mean, not very). Again, not putting anyone down, but those just aren't urban in the sense of density, walkability, highrise, street retail, absence of surface parking lots, etc. Very pleasant areas, but better described as resort or high-rise with parking lots.

But the weather is very nice for most of 8 months.

[bunt_q]

Phoenix to me always feels like a hot dry version of the Chicago suburbs. Sure, there are similarities with Southern California, but many of those similarities exist between any newer portions of the U.S.

Don - as for traffic signals in wires vs mast arms - that's just an age thing too. Wires are older, and over time get replaced. But nobody builds wires today.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

Pretty broad statement. You've obviously never been to Downtown Phoenix, Tempe or Scottsdale. And yes, its hot for 4 months, thats the beauty of being 1 hour flight away from SoCal.

I realize there's some urbanity, of limited intensity in small areas. Someone who values urbanity will find more in pretty much any big city on earth.

It's hot much longer than four months. The four months a fiery hell amidst other months that are merely hot and some that are livable.

[Don B.]

Phoenix is arguably more comfortable in the summer than most midwestern cities, because the humidity is so low. 85 in New York City with 65% humidity feels about the same as 105 in Phoenix with 8% humidity. Phoenix is also not as extreme as most midwestern or East Coast cities. Kansas City, for example, ranges about 60 degrees from the average summer high of 89 to the average winter high of 29 degrees. Minneapolis is even worse, 84 to 14 degrees, or a 70 degree range from summer to winter. Phoenix is only 40 degrees from summer to winter, from 106 to 66 degrees.

For those of you making silly statements like this:

It's hot much longer than four months. The four months a fiery hell amidst other months that are merely hot and some that are livable.

...and this:

Nothing against Phoenix, but Scottsdale, Tempe and downtown Phoenix are about as urban as Woodland Hills or the OC (by which I mean, not very).

It's clear you don't really understand what Phoenix is. Comparing Phoenix to an older port city on the ocean makes little sense. Phoenix was smaller than Peoria, IL or Duluth, MN in 1950. There was no demand for high rises and "urbanity" in any traditional sense of the word because Phoenix was a small dusty agricultural village in the middle of nowhere. The entire state of Arizona only had 750,000 people in 1950, compared to 3.6 million people in Chicago, 2 million in Philly, and nearly 1 million in St. Louis and Cleveland (city populations only). For example, my hometown of Kansas City had 400,000 people in 1930. Phoenix didn't reach 400,000 people until 1960, and if you think a city that started really expanding in the 1950s (Phoenix) is going to look like a city that started expanding in the 1850s or the 1920s, you are a schmuck. Postwar development was entirely different from prewar development. I might add that Phoenix's urban core, such that it is, is densifying and is already denser than a good number of historic major cities that are declining, like Kansas City, Rochester and Detroit.

There wouldn't be 4.4 million people living here if Phoenix had no redeeming qualities and was literally a "fiery hell" during the summer as depicted by ignorant folks that have not visited.

By the way, as I type this, my front door is open and it is only 94 degrees outside. I'm looking out over grass and trees, and our central swimming pool, and I live in an area with a population density over 7,000 people per square mile, in central Phoenix. Kansas City and Rochester would both give their left nut to have that sort of density in an area built in the 1970s.

--don

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Don B.

Phoenix is arguably more comfortable in the summer than most midwestern cities, because the humidity is so low. 85 in New York City with 65% humidity feels about the same as 105 in Phoenix with 8% humidity. Phoenix is also not as extreme as most midwestern or East Coast cities.
--don

Summer in Baghdad is, IMHO, preferable to a summer in the eastern U.S. Phoenix is downright pleasant, although I can see how people who've never experienced dry heat might assume otherwise. Or they just like sticky and sweaty. On my spreadsheets, Phoenix weather is in its pro column. It's in the con column for Chicago, New York, Washington... pretty much everything east of the bug line.

I don't think there's any debating climate between Phoenix and Seattle. To each their own. I'm not sure I could live in Seattle - wet and 50s feels really cold to me (yes, even compare to a Denver winter), but I might be able to do it. I know for certain I couldn't live back east.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by pesto

Nothing against Phoenix, but Scottsdale, Tempe and downtown Phoenix are about as urban as Woodland Hills or the OC (by which I mean, not very).

Oh, come ON! There is absolutely nothing in Woodland Hills that even approaches Downtown PHX, Scottsdale or Tempe. If you are attempting to compare Warner Center/Topanga Plaza to any of these, you are being beyond dishonest.

How about giving credit where credit is due?

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I don't think there's any debating climate between Phoenix and Seattle. To each their own. I'm not sure I could live in Seattle - wet and 50s feels really cold to me (yes, even compare to a Denver winter), but I might be able to do it. I know for certain I couldn't live back east.

I absolutely LOVE Seattle, but after spending a week there in February I simply couldn't live there full time.

Unless of course I could afford to do SoCal/Phoenix/Hawaii every single weekend.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I don't think there's any debating climate between Phoenix and Seattle. To each their own. I'm not sure I could live in Seattle - wet and 50s feels really cold to me (yes, even compare to a Denver winter), but I might be able to do it. I know for certain I couldn't live back east.

Anecdotally, there seems to be a lot of movement between Phoenix and Seattle/Portland. Some people seem to get tired of the dry heat and leave for the damp Northwest, while others get tired of the damp and want to head down somewhere drier.

That, or we just seem to have a lot of Oregon Ducks and Seattle Seahawks fans down here for some oddball reason

And since I have an irrational hatred of humidity, I'd much rather be in Phoenix in May when it can be anywhere from 90F to 105F than in Cincinnati at the same time at 80F.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Oh, come ON! There is absolutely nothing in Woodland Hills that even approaches Downtown PHX, Scottsdale or Tempe. If you are attempting to compare Warner Center/Topanga Plaza to any of these, you are being beyond dishonest.

How about giving credit where credit is due?

I'm not equating them; just saying neither is very urban. I can get into more detailed discussions of DT, the stadium area and Scottsdale if you want but I don't see the point. I find Washington, Van Buren, etc., to be more reminiscent of Woodland Hills than of Wall St. or the Loop. And Cooperstown and the whole stadium area are deserted except before and after games. But there are highrises and a bit of transit.

Change subject: I agree that 105 in Phoenix is better than 85 on the East coast. And rock climbing in Sedona at 90 is less debilitating than walking on 5th Ave. at the same temperature.

[HurricaneHugo]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

If anything, there's probably more of a connection between San Diego and Phoenix than LA-Phoenix. We Arizonans sure as hell love vacationing in SD in the summertime...

Zonies are horrible drivers!

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo

Zonies are horrible drivers!

True, but so are all the SoCal transplants in Phoenix!

[Buckeye Native 001]

As someone whose lived in both SoCal and Phoenix, I've developed a begrudging respect for SoCal drivers. Given the ramshackle state of some of those freeways, it takes some serious skill to drive on them. That everyone seems to do it at 75+ mph (when there aren't traffic jams because everyone's stopped to look at a shoe on the side of the road) is all the more impressive.

Whereas in Phoenix more often than not, I encounter drivers doing 70mph in the right lanes, while some jackass snowbird or senior citizen in a Lincoln is doing below 55mph in the left lanes. Oftentimes, these two types of drivers are driving the same stretches of I-17 or I-10 that I'm on...