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  #14601  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 3:38 AM
alanlutz alanlutz is offline
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Old Theaters on Broadway

Thanks Chuckaluck for those great theater pix. I was on Broadway exploring for myself Saturday and got a shot of the Cameo (Clune's Broadway 1910)


As well as its neighbor the Pantages - Arcade also 1910.


Facinating thing about the Arcade which is now a stereo shop, the door to the back room was open and I could see the old slope of the walkway down to the stage and the remains of the balcony and I think even a stage curtain. Wish I could have asked permission to take photos.

But as I was researching, I found a great resource I hope ALL OF YOU will enjoy. It is an interactive map of downtown LA (and beyond) called Wikimapia.
Please check it out and let me know if you like it.
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  #14602  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 3:57 AM
alanlutz alanlutz is offline
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Oh, and I'm sorry, also the other neighbor, The Roxie!
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  #14603  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 4:07 AM
ProphetM ProphetM is offline
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Regarding the palm trees on San Pedro.

Note the building with the porch/arcade that sticks out over the sidewalk:


http://www.csulb.edu/~odinthor/socal1a.html

Now note a corresponding building on the 1888 Sanborn map from LAPL:



Flyingwedge, do you have an image of the map area immediately below this one? (I tried to find it at LAPL but was prevented by lack of a library card.) I suspect that the Hammel residence may be the one at the bottom center of this image, and the field of palms and the brick building next to the sidewalk may be just off the bottom of this image. I get the impression that the street photo above may be a longer distance than it seems.
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  #14604  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 9:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProphetM View Post
Note the building with the porch/arcade that sticks out over the sidewalk:


http://www.csulb.edu/~odinthor/socal1a.html

Now note a corresponding building on the 1888 Sanborn map from LAPL:



Flyingwedge, do you have an image of the map area immediately below this one? (I tried to find it at LAPL but was prevented by lack of a library card.) I suspect that the Hammel residence may be the one at the bottom center of this image, and the field of palms and the brick building next to the sidewalk may be just off the bottom of this image. I get the impression that the street photo above may be a longer distance than it seems.
Thank you for your discerning eye, PM! You are exactly right. We have the brick wall, the building along San Pedro Street, the sheds and barn to the west of the brick wall, and what sure seems like the Hammel house (Unless the Hammel house was the brick building right on San Pedro, and the house to the north of the palms was just the house on the next lot over and not Hammel's. Or maybe Hammel owned both lots?). I'm pretty sure we now also know exactly where the palm that got moved to Arcade Depot and Exposition Park was when it was in the ground on San Pedro Street.

1888 Sanborn Map @ LAPL

And in 1894 we have our warehouse where the palms were:

1894 Sanborn Map @ LAPL

The area on the Los Angeles As it Appeared in 1871 Map:

Big Map Blog -- http://www.bigmapblog.com/2011/los-a...eared-in-1871/

The home at the end of the long driveway (two lines of trees) on the east side of San Pedro belonged to W. J. Broderick, "insurance man and stationer" according to the 1881 LA Times Map, Block 52. Opposite the long driveway, on the west side of San Pedro Street, I think I see the brick building that was adjacent to the palm trees, and also what might be the Hammel home just to the right of that and set back off the street a bit.

Here's the brick building along San Pedro Street when it had the dormer pictured in the 1871 map, and apparently the barn and one of the sheds shown on the 1888 Sanborn Map (I apologize for reposting some photos):

CA State Library -- http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...EXHX78F14R.jpg

And here's the Hammel home (arrow) just to the north of the brick building along San Pedro. Now bear with me . . . look between the center two palms right along the brick wall. There are three palms a little farther back; two right next to each other, and a shorter one to the left:

USC Digital Library -- http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...d/13914/rec/11

Looking closer in at the back (or side) of the Hammel home, there are two palms right next to each other, and a shorter one in front and to the left:

USC Digital Library -- [http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si.../id/8915/rec/9

Looking in the opposite direction back at the brick wall, look at the palm tree being moved (with the guy on the ladder) . . . it's shorter than and to the right of two palms right next to each other:

LAPL -- http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics37/00068408.jpg

Again looking at the back of the Hammel house -- just visible at right -- we have two palm trees next to each other, and the one on the left being moved.

http://www.lamag.com/citythink/cityt...dest-palm-tree

Yeah, they need to put a protective fence around that palm tree at Exposition Park. It's lived too long and through too much to be at the mercy of some knucklehead.

Last edited by Flyingwedge; May 14, 2013 at 10:27 AM. Reason: fix links
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  #14605  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingwedge View Post
. . . the same as the house in this picture, which is captioned, "c. 1886 Photograph of 2 large fan palm trees at the residence of Sheriff Hammel on San Pedro Street near Second Street, Los Angeles. A well is situated between them"? Could be.

USC Digital Library -- http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si.../id/8915/rec/9

(...)

Here's another shot of the Arcade Depot palm . . . still can't read that dang sign, though:

CA State Library -- httpcatalog.library.ca.govexlibrisalepha19_1apache_mediaRRX95HAJNKYTQNU5KC63QXCRGQX8RP.jpg


I see three palms in the top photo; two very close together in the rear with one almost wholly obscuring the other, in addition to the slightly shorter one in front. (Look closely at the trunks.)

Although it's not possible to be certain, to my eye, all three of these palms look as tall or taller than the one that years later ended up in front of the Arcade Depot.

Considering all this, my hunch is that the three palms in the first photo were the ones originally planted in the 1850s, while the others that lined the street came later. And, when all of the San Pedro Street palms were removed in the late 1880s, they chose the one that looked the nicest (not necessarily the oldest) to reside in front of the Arcade Depot.
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  #14606  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 3:14 PM
Chuckaluck Chuckaluck is offline
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Originally Posted by BifRayRock View Post



I looked, but did not see anything in this thread about the "Newsreel Theater" located at 802 S Broadway. Evidently this establishment was better known as the Tower Theater, where, among other things, the Jazz Singer had its LA premier? Same theater is alleged to have been the first LA theater wired for "talkies" and "air-conditioned." Some sources indicate that the top of the former Tower theater was removed due to earthquake damage.

From the 1950s:
http://jpg2.lapl.org

1953
http://www.pacificelectric.org/wp-co...2/MP-00005.jpg



Fascinating views of adjoining building's changing advertisements.


Circa '27:
http://jpg2.lapl.org

Undated:


From the '70s:
http://jpg2.lapl.org/theater2/00015477.jpg





Before the Tower or Newsreel. there was the Garrick.

1913
http://hdl.huntington.org/utils/ajax...XT=&DMROTATE=0








http://photos.cinematreasures.org/pr...jpg?1316135262

http://photos.cinematreasures.org/pr...jpg?1316135221

http://photos.cinematreasures.org/pr...jpg?1316135141

1922 Beyond the Rocks
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...3JeHEJEvpCYgCk

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iqde5Op1Cy...ks+(1922)5.jpg
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  #14607  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 3:33 PM
Chuckaluck Chuckaluck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanlutz View Post

I was on Broadway exploring for myself Saturday and got a shot of the Cameo (Clune's Broadway 1910)


As well as its neighbor the Pantages - Arcade also 1910.
Thanks for the updates.


1913 It was almost 100 years ago today, Sgt. Pepper taught the band . . .
http://hdl.huntington.org/utils/ajax...XT=&DMROTATE=0










As you know, the Clunes on Broadway had a close relative on Fifth and Olive.

http://hdl.huntington.org/utils/ajax...XT=&DMROTATE=0






1910 - A bona fide gem
http://www.photographium.com/sites/d...rnia._1910.jpg
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  #14608  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 3:54 PM
Chuckaluck Chuckaluck is offline
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
I had no idea, until tonight, that the Avodon Ballroom was originally an auto park.


http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si.../id/8240/rec/1

And not just any parking garage, but an elegant and dignified one.

As I zoomed in to savor the details, I was surprised to see that the sign says 'The New Orpheum Auto Park'.


http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si.../id/8240/rec/1

Was the auto park built by the Orpheum Corp. or simply billed as such?
If it was built by Orpheum, it makes me wonder if there was a back entrance or passage-way to it's namesake theater on Broadway?
Without a shortcut, you would have to go way out of your way (using 9th Street) to reach the movie palace.


below: The auto park on Spring Street in relation to the Orpheum Theater on Broadway.

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/





I was also surprised to see that the roof-top Orpheum sign still advertises vaudeville.


detail

below: I can't resist posting this matchbook graphic again.
The Avodon Ballroom aka New Orpheum Auto Park.

ebay

I wonder about the lighting scheme. Do you suppose this 'moderne' facade was bathed in aquamarine flood-lights?
God, I'd love to go back in time!
__



http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...87207247_n.jpg


1913
http://hdl.huntington.org/utils/ajax...XT=&DMROTATE=0


Connected to F.Scott's Gatsby?






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  #14609  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 5:36 PM
BifRayRock BifRayRock is offline
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Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post
I was just noticing that this block hasn't changed at all in 60 years.

The plating company buildings are still on the right and the cement works beyond Sycamore. The gas works on the other side of La Brea, is, of course, gone. That's now a big Best Buy / Target shopping center (I can't remember what was there before that). The only other thing on that block is the Formosa Cafe. It occurs to me I've never seen a photo of the Formosa or the Pickford Fairbanks Studio that shows the gas works. They're always taken from the other angle.


RKO Radio Pictures / netflix


gsv



P.S.
I take it back. Here's two shots showing the gas works (too early for The Red Post Cafe/Jack's Steakhouse/Formosa):


http://www.hollywoodphotographs.com/...&c=-1&i=1&r=96

Just paint it sky blue and it will blend right in:

http://www.hollywoodphotographs.com/...&c=-1&i=1&r=96




A wonderful video of '67 La Brea Ave, north of Melorse (?). Nice capture of the car wash mentioned in other posts and the gas storage tank. The Corsican restaurant . . . Only criticism, too short.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...g&feature=fvwp


'35 - Wilshire in or near Beverly Hills. Pass by Hillcrest Motors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HhbWApOrFg



Last edited by BifRayRock; May 14, 2013 at 5:47 PM.
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  #14610  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by JScott View Post
I see three palms in the top photo; two very close together in the rear with one almost wholly obscuring the other, in addition to the slightly shorter one in front. (Look closely at the trunks.)

Although it's not possible to be certain, to my eye, all three of these palms look as tall or taller than the one that years later ended up in front of the Arcade Depot.

Considering all this, my hunch is that the three palms in the first photo were the ones originally planted in the 1850s, while the others that lined the street came later. And, when all of the San Pedro Street palms were removed in the late 1880s, they chose the one that looked the nicest (not necessarily the oldest) to reside in front of the Arcade Depot.
I see your point, and you could very well be right. The Arcade Station's being much larger than the brick house behind the palms makes it hard for me to make the same judgment about size. And while the crates these two palms are being moved in match, the "beards" (I mean the dead fronds, not the stuff around the trunk, which I admit is probably best described as a "beard") look a little different. Perhaps the photos of palm tree removal on San Pedro Street document moving a different palm. Gotta get back to working on that time machine so we can find out . . . .


http://www.lamag.com/citythink/cityt...dest-palm-tree


http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_fo...s-angeles.html

Last edited by Flyingwedge; May 14, 2013 at 7:57 PM.
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  #14611  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 7:44 PM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Arcade Palm

Unless George W Hazard posthumously joins the thread and starts posting, I guess we'll never know for sure who brought our trees to LA and exactly when. They are not as well documented as the Longstreet Palms, although noirish LA got close. The Arcade Palm hasn't had this much attention in 99 years.

Moving over to Exposition Park, I have a question about the placement of our tree. When Agricultural Park was rededicated as Exposition Park in 1913, the histories only mention the buildings and the sunken garden at the north end of the site. The bars and brothels had been cleared. The tree stands at the Figueroa Street end of the grand median strip dividing Exposition Park Drive leading to the Coliseum. The Coliseum, of course, hadn't even been thought of in 1914 when our tree was transplanted. Is the stadium exactly on the site of the old racecourse? What was so special about this particular spot in 1914? Or was it the spot?




google maps

Coliseum construction start 1921. Hey, wait a minute, where's our tree?:

http://waterandpower.org/museum/Earl...5)_Page_3.html

Another shot from '21 or '22:

http://waterandpower.org/museum/Earl...5)_Page_3.html

Closer view of those structures east of the Coliseum during construction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LA...ction-1922.jpg

1922:

http://waterandpower.org/museum/Early_Views_of_USC.html

Oh, there's our tree, appearing out of nowhere. It looks to be on its own little island in 1932, not included in the lawn:

http://dailytrackpic.files.wordpress...rthovercol.jpg

A rather fanciful, idealized, artist's view:

http://waterandpower.org/museum/Early_Views_of_USC.html



Was the tree moved after construction of the Coliseum within Exposition Park? Just exactly where was it transplanted on 5 September 1914? The monument says only that it was placed "here".
It doesn't look as though it was in this particular "here" in 1922. Where was it?


gsv




P.S.

A bit of Coliseum history:http://historylosangeles.blogspot.co...history-1.html

Last edited by tovangar2; May 15, 2013 at 12:53 AM. Reason: add P.S.
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  #14612  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 8:18 PM
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The Slot ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanlutz View Post


But as I was researching, I found a great resource I hope ALL OF YOU will enjoy. It is an interactive map of downtown LA (and beyond) called Wikimapia.
Please check it out and let me know if you like it.
Thanks a lot alanlutz for this interactive map ! Looking at it, I noticed that the section just south of "El Plueblo de Los Angeles" is called "The Slot". I didn't know that. Does anyone know why ?
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  #14613  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 10:55 PM
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The oldest living thing in Los Angeles

The more I look at these three trees, the more I'm sure that the two in back really are too tall for either to be the Arcade Depot palm. However, I've had a change of heart about the smallest of the three. Reason being, note that the trunk of the one at left has a very slight curve to the right.


eBay/May 2012


Now, look at this side view of the palm in front of the Arcade Depot. It, too, has a trunk that is ever-so-slightly curved above the base. Kinda makes me go "Hmmmm."


http://www.flickr.com/photos/84263554@N00/7637123686/



Also, going back to the cabinet card above, the wording of the caption intrigues me. Let's assume for a moment that all of the palms we've seen around this section of San Pedro Street are equally old. Wouldn't the neatly-spaced palms that lined the street by the wall make a prettier and therefore more saleable picture than these would? But instead, the photographer chose the three visibly scruffier and haphazardly-placed palms to be his subjects. That suggests to me that these particular trees were the ones generally known at the time to be THE original "old palms of San Pedro Street," as the caption states.


Below, here we are looking at the three Hammel palms (left foreground) from the northwest looking southeast. In the background are the palms that are behind the wall that lines San Pedro Street. The smaller palm in the foreground, though, clearly seems to be the focus of attention here, and appears to be the very first one that's slated for removal. Although the two at left are obviously taller than all the others pictured here – and therefore likely the oldest of all – transplanting them was probably made problematical by their immediate proximity to each other; their root systems undoubtedly intertwined. If the intention was to preserve just one of the famous "old palms," then the easiest to move and transplant to the Arcade Depot would be the smaller, more isolated one.


http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics37/00068408.jpg


There is, of course, no way to confirm or corroborate any of this speculation, but I'm now willing to go with the idea that the smallest of the three Hammel palms is the one that stood in front of the Arcade Depot, and which now stands in its place of honor at Exposition Park.



http://www.lamag.com/citythink/cityt...dest-palm-tree

Here, looking from SE to NW, it appears to me that all of the Hammel palms which stood in the background have already been removed, and this picture shows the removal of the trees that grew behind the wall that lined San Pedro Street. I think it's highly likely that ALL of the San Pedro Street palms were removed to other locations, not simply destroyed. Palm trees were far too valuable a commodity in those days to simply cut down; they were doubtless sold for a handsome price to other landowners and replanted elsewhere. So, it may well be that some of the other San Pedro Street fan palms yet survive today, though their provenance as being among the oldest trees in Los Angeles has been lost over the years.

-----

My overall conclusion is that I now believe that the Arcade Depot/Exposition Park palm is the oldest known living thing in Los Angeles. Judging by height, the Washingtonia filifera pictured in front of the Arcade Depot c.1888 is at least 40 years old, which makes it older than the twin rows of W. robusta of Palm Drive (the Longstreet Palms), whose origin I dated to the period of the Civil War. The latter, however, are almost certainly the oldest specimens of that particular species still extant in the city, and are therefore no less worthy of monument status.

The Arcade Depot palm and the palms of Palm Drive were both eminently famous in their day. Now that they have all arisen out of obscurity, I think it's high time their historical importance is once again acknowledged, and celebrated.
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Last edited by JScott; Aug 20, 2014 at 11:11 PM.
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  #14614  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 11:57 PM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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The chain of custody of the Longstreet Palms is impeccable. The Arcade Palm, not so much.
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  #14615  
Old Posted May 15, 2013, 1:24 AM
Tourmaline Tourmaline is offline
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Originally Posted by Flyingwedge View Post
Here's another shot of the Arcade Depot palm . . . still can't read that dang sign, though:

CA State Library -- httpcatalog.library.ca.govexlibrisalepha19_1apache_mediaRRX95HAJNKYTQNU5KC63QXCRGQX8RP.jpg


Dang Sign

Might larger versions lead to an overlooked detail or two? Hard to tell what has gone unseen, especially considering the surprising number of recent treatments on similar-same subject matter, e.g., Oldest palm tree: http://www.lamag.com/citythink/cityt...dest-palm-tree LA train stations: http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_fo...s-angeles.html)

There was a time before any sign. Still, to my tired eyes, the information contained on "the" sign was minimal. Something akin to: "Mayor Tom Bradley Welcomes You to LA!" "Mayor Fred Eaton says obey all laws and don't touch the Palm." "Ask for John Weiland's Lager Beer. Tell 'em Mayor Meredith 'Pinky' Snyder sent you." "Visit Angel's flight and Go Elks." "Pop: 1 Palm, Palm Elev. 78'."

Could also have commemorated William McKinley's 1901 visit. "President McKinley was here!"

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...pot&DMROTATE=0







http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3174/2...f4284e66_o.jpg




http://i.ebayimg.com/t/ARCADE-DEPOT-...S)Q~~60_57.JPG




Circa 1890
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...EJ8Q4NGEPD.jpg

http://silentlocations.files.wordpre...th-alameda.jpg

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/fu...gleitem/rec/23

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...pot&DMROTATE=0





Last edited by Tourmaline; May 15, 2013 at 1:59 AM.
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  #14616  
Old Posted May 15, 2013, 2:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuckaluck View Post

An imaginative lighting sampling from this exhibit: http://pstp-edison.com/loomis/

1912
http://static.squarespace.com/static...g?format=1000w


What an elaborate street light! Does anyone know where in Hollywood these were located?


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  #14617  
Old Posted May 15, 2013, 3:56 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Arcade Station

I keep meaning to ask, was this the fire bell?

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si.../id/2388/rec/1 (detail)

It does not appear in all pix.

There was apparently a six-man, in-house fire department at the Arcade Station. A description of the departments and public amenities at the Arcade Station may be found here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=4w8...20tree&f=false

Last edited by tovangar2; Jun 28, 2015 at 4:09 AM. Reason: fix link
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  #14618  
Old Posted May 15, 2013, 3:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JScott View Post


http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics37/00068408.jpg


There is, of course, no way to confirm or corroborate any of this speculation, but I'm now willing to go with the idea that the smallest of the three Hammel palms is the one that stood in front of the Arcade Depot, and which now stands in its place of honor at Exposition Park.



http://www.lamag.com/citythink/cityt...dest-palm-tree

Here, looking from SE to NW, it appears to me that all of the Hammel palms which stood in the background have already been removed, and this picture shows the removal of the trees that grew behind the wall that lined San Pedro Street.
I was thinking that the tree being removed here was the same as the one with the ladder against it, and that the 4 palms + the wall were behind the photographer.
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  #14619  
Old Posted May 15, 2013, 4:30 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Originally Posted by ProphetM View Post
I was thinking that the tree being removed here was the same as the one with the ladder against it, and that the 4 palms + the wall were behind the photographer.
The four "wall trees" were still there after the first phase of the new warehouse was finished:

USC Digital Library -- http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...d/14500/rec/13

...making me think they were moved later as the urban streetscape filled in, but I really don't know.
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  #14620  
Old Posted May 15, 2013, 4:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProphetM View Post
I was thinking that the tree being removed here was the same as the one with the ladder against it, and that the 4 palms + the wall were behind the photographer.

Yes, looking closely at that picture again, I believe you're right! The apparently single tree at right is actually two trees, one almost totally obscuring the other, so that would make these the Hammel palms, not the ones by the wall. Good eye, ProphetM!
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