Sports in Canadian culture

[esquire]

Getting back to the Toronto NFL thing, David Shoalts' column in today's Globe speculates that MLSE has assigned their head of facilities, Bob Hunter, to work on making BMO capable of hosting the CFL because the NFL is insisting that they provide some form of accommodation for that the Argonauts.

Between floating the loan that saved the CFL back in 1997 and now making sure the Argos will continue to exist, I'd say that CFL fans owe the NFL a hearty debt of gratitude. Kind of a sad statement about the Canadian mindset that the NFL is more interested in the CFL's continued existence than the sports and entertainment power brokers in Toronto.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Also in that article he states - there is a design in place for a stadium in the $600million range and to be honest - that won't get you a lot in a stadium considering the price tags of under construction/planned NFL stadia.

Atlanta, Minnesota and San Francisco are all $1billion venues catering to 65,000 people

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by elly63

Sorry but nobody "hates" T.O. Many of us just can't understand the inflated attitude. Not that I really want to get into it, it's like the GTA just doesn't get it. It thinks it's hip/cool/edgy but the ROC has moved on and grown up and T.O hasn't clued in that it's been left behind.

When people used to "Go down the road" they went to Montreal and in the 70's T.O, now they go out west to seek their fortune. And our latest census tells us that immigrants are doing the same.

This has to be the most laughably incorrect post I've seen here in a long time. Each sentence is more hilarious than the last.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

[esquire]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Also in that article he states - there is a design in place for a stadium in the $600million range and to be honest - that won't get you a lot in a stadium considering the price tags of under construction/planned NFL stadia.

Atlanta, Minnesota and San Francisco are all $1billion venues catering to 65,000 people

I strongly suspect that Atlanta and Minnesota would have built something cheaper if they had to do it without taxpayer $. But that being said, a $600 million stadium in Canada is basically equivalent to a $400 million stadium in the US, and you would probably have a hard time competing with a stadium worth less than half the value of the other new parks... it would be the stripped down, BMO Field version of a typical new NFL stadium.

I get that Toronto would probably be a good NFL market, but is it good enough to justify the billion dollar franchise pricetag and a billion dollar privately-funded stadium? I have my doubts.

[MrOilers]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle15581107/

So it would be a group of people trying to buy an NFL team for Toronto, not a single owner? The NFL might not like that.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by MrOilers

So it would be a group of people trying to buy an NFL team for Toronto, not a single owner? The NFL might not like that.

A group with Edward Rogers as the majority owner.

The NFL ownership rules can allow the majority owner to have as little as 10% of the team.

[Antigonish]

Anybody ever factor in the fluctuating dollar? It killed a couple smaller NHL teams in the 90's, and even 80¢-85¢ to the Canadian dollar would be expensive to even dream of.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

What I don't understand is your wannabe Americanism.

The NFL is junk. Worse, it's junk that everyone in Toronto seems to desperately want, but then noone wants to actually go to games (for ridiculous reasons like 'the Bills suck' or 'it's not our team'; both of which are highly indicative of a weak hardcore fanbase).

We may suffer from 'little brother syndrome', but Toronto is guilty of a Little Napoleon Complex, seemingly exuding a desperate neediness for 'the big show'; like a prized ornament on the shelf.

lol calm down bro, Ottawa will get something some day probably.

[P Unit]

While I don't really care one way or the other whether Toronto gets an NFL team (apart from the obvious nerding out over the infrastructure that would come along with a team), the idea of f**king JON BON JOVI leading some sort of villainous anti-Canadian cabal for salty CFL fans to rail against cracks me up.

[suburbanite]

The argument that Toronto wants the NFL to be American or to be validated as a city by Americans is ridiculous. I want to watch the NFL because it's the best football league in the world, offering the highest level of competition. I would literally rather watch an exhibition NFL game than watch the Argos play in the Grey Cup. It's the same reason I don't follow the AHL or NCAA, who the hell wants to watch the feeder league regardless of whether or not it has more Canadians playing in it or not.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/11/25...ill-to-toronto

TORONTO - It wasn’t a political touchdown but Premier Kathleen Wynne did not rule new sports infrastructure for the Buffalo Bills out of bounds.

“I’m not going to go down that road but as I said, the sports industry is an industry that is very important and tourism is critical,” Wynne said Monday, when asked about a new Buffalo Bills stadium.

“It’s why we’re so enthusiastic about the Pan-Parapan Games because we know that bringing all of those athletes, bringing 41 countries from the Pan American world to come here to compete is extremely important and there will be a legacy to the Pan-Parapan Games in terms of affordable housing, in terms of venues.

“So I’m a big fan of sports infrastructure — not making a commitment — but I am a big fan of that kind of event that leads to a legacy,” Wynne said.

The premier said she would be guided by the principle that the CFL remains viable.

“We wouldn’t want to hurt the Argos,” she said.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Who said the Feds will pay for a stadium, they will certainly finance parts of any Olympic bid, but the province can pay for a stadium.

Province can't afford it. Neither can the city 'cept maybe the land. The deficit is bad enough as it is.

Nossir if the economic benefits are as great and the NFL is as major league as the NFL boosters such as yourself say it is, then nothing less than a minumum of 80% private funding will do.

50,000 season ticket holders with an average private seat license of $10,000
50,000 * 10,000 = $500,000,000

150 suite holders paying an average private suite license of $200,000 per suite
150 * 200,000 = $30,000,000

Private consortium of owners coming up with $100 - $200 million to build a stadium.

NFL loan of $150 million to be paid back in due time. The Vikings received a loan from the NFL to build the new Vikings stadium and I believe this was the amount. I think similar amounts have been given to recently constructed NFl stadiums as well

Stadium naming rights. Say 20 yrs at $15 million, possibly $20 million per year

20 * 15,000,000 = 300,000,000
or
20 * 20,000,000 = 400,000,000

so there you have it - $1.08 billion - $1.28 billion could be raised for a $1 billion stadium (obviously much more than this as it would be paid for over several years and thus accrue interest). If Toronto is such a sure thing for the NFL and makes sense economically then the wannabee owners should have no problem raising the money with minimal public investment. Miright?

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Nowhere did I say it was a done deal Mr.Hicksville (TM), what's changed now is we're seeing clear movement publicly and even the haters must secretly acknowledge in their insecure little heads that it's doable. A year ago, the same people now complaining and getting emotional at the thought that Toronto would be so uppity to have a chance at an NFL franchise were saying it was completely impossible and not even worthy of contemplation...

Where is there a clear movent with regards to getting an NFL team? The commissioner doesn't even want an NFL team in Toronto. Most recently he stated the league and owners were looking at LA and London as expansion opportunities. Toronto's name was not even uttered.

Also, take note that the Bills will be or will soon sign another 10-year lease with the stadium which will undergo $100 million or so in renovations. Breaking that lease would be cost prohibitive.

It's great that you support the NFl in Toronto but please don't let your passion blind you to what is really going on here. IT's the media drumming up interest for a BUffalo Bills game that has sold barely more than half the tickets for next weeks event.

[Fortunate4Now]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

IT's the media drumming up interest for a BUffalo Bills game that has sold barely more than half the tickets for next weeks event.

ding ding ding. Get your hopes up all you want but pillaging the Bills out of Buffalo is an unlikely scenario. There have already been multiple billionaires ready to step in if needed, not to mention the NY state politicians are not going to sit by and let New York's only team walk out of the state and lose all the state income tax. Be ready for a long fight on all fronts. There is already so much in Toronto, support your Argonauts and stop planning to eat your little cousins lunch.

[Barnard's Star]

Per the last two posts, I think this whole news event is just a naked ticket grab by Rogers for the upcoming Bills game at the dome. The original story appeared on CBS citing "numerous sources" but I have no doubt it came out of MLSE or Rogers. I was appalled that they chose Grey Cup Sunday to do so.

Even more appalling is that they're trying to pick over Ralph Wilson's corpse while the man is still breathing. I don't follow the NFL at all but I really feel for the fans in Buffalo; there's no team coming to Toronto while the Bills remain in Buffalo and we shouldn't underestimate the degree to which the state of New York and the NFL itself will defend the status quo. There's just not enough upside to the move up north.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Also in that article he states - there is a design in place for a stadium in the $600million range and to be honest - that won't get you a lot in a stadium considering the price tags of under construction/planned NFL stadia.

Atlanta, Minnesota and San Francisco are all $1billion venues catering to 65,000 people

Yep, and San Francisco's new stadium is not even a domed stadium. Heck, it doesn't even have anything resembling an awning!

Not sure why people say it is cheaper to go see the NFL in Detroit. I took a look at their ticket prices and they are comparable or more expensive in most sections compared to similar sections at Rodgers Centre. When comparing club seats (200 level at Rogers) to the club seats at Ford Field, the prices at Ford Field are waaaaaaaaaaaay more expensive.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/11/25...ill-to-toronto

Been hearing from a few people in southern Ontario that the leadup to the Pan Am games has not been going all too well. So what's the word on the games, Toronto and Hamilton? I'd like to hear the thoughts from the posters in Southern Ontario with regards to the Pan Am games. Are there cost overrruns? Poor organization? Poor leadership? Or are things progressing in a positive manner?

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Province can't afford it. Neither can the city 'cept maybe the land. The deficit is bad enough as it is.

Nossir if the economic benefits are as great and the NFL is as major league as the NFL boosters such as yourelf say it is, then nothing less than a minumum of 80% private funding will do.

50,000 season ticket holders with an average private seat license of $10,000
50,000 * 10,000 = $500,000,000

150 suite holders paying an average private suite license of $200,000 per suite
150 * 200,000 = $30,000,000

Private consortium of owners coming up with $100 - $200 million to build a stadium.

NFL loan of $150 million to be paid back in due time. The Vikings received a loan from the NFL to build the new Vikings stadium and I believe this was the amount. I think similar amounts have been given to recently constructed NFl stadiums as well

Stadium naming rights. Say 20 yrs at $15 million, possibly $20 million per year

20 * 15,000,000 = 300,000,000
or
20 * 20,000,000 = 400,000,000

so there you have it - $1.08 billion - $1.28 billion could be raised for a $1 billion stadium (obviously much more than this as it would be paid for over several years and thus acrrue interest). If Toronto is such a sure thing for the NFL and makes sense economically then the wannabee owners should have no problem raising the money with minimal public investment. Miright?

Your comments in other threads indicate you really don't want an NFL franchise in Toronto to the point of gleefully gloating. We get it, you're a Winnipeg CFL fanboy whose insecure his favourite league will lose lustre with the country's biggest market adding yet another team. What you don't get is both leagues can exist side by side.

You also really don't understand Ontario's financial capacity and ability to repay it's debt. Even ignoring the positive remarks from none other than the premier herself that she's open to investing in new sports infrastructure for an NFL stadium, we're an AA2 credit rating jurisdiction which puts us in the top tier of North American jurisdictions and we're expected to have a budget surplus in 2017 even if we take a low growth scenario. Ontario invested $500 million for the Pan Am Games and an additional $1 billion for transit infrastructure that may not have happened had the games not been approved. You really think they won't invest $1 billion toward a new major stadium?? Paid in installments over 20 years it's chump change. Infact, with corporate sponsorship a $1.5 billion stadium is quite feasible.

Anyway, no use preaching to the converted, keep doubting us and praying for us to fail, and we'll keep surprising you...

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Been hearing from a few people in southern Ontario that the leadup to the Pan Am games has not been going all too well. So what's the word on the games, Toronto and Hamilton? I'd like to hear the thoughts from the posters in Southern Ontario with regards to the Pan Am games. Are there cost overrruns? Poor organization? Poor leadership? Or are things progressing in a positive manner?

Things are going fine, infrastructure being built on a massive and unprecedented scale, development for the games is on time and under budget. The games are 1 1/2 years away, you'll hear some serious buzz 6 months leading upto the games.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Where is there a clear movent with regards to getting an NFL team? The commissioner doesn't even want an NFL team in Toronto. Most recently he stated the league and owners were looking at LA and London as expansion opportunities. Toronto's name was not even uttered.

Also, take note that the Bills will be or will soon sign another 10-year lease with the stadium which will undergo $100 million or so in renovations. Breaking that lease would be cost prohibitive.

It's great that you support the NFl in Toronto but please don't let your passion blind you to what is really going on here. IT's the media drumming up interest for a BUffalo Bills game that has sold barely more than half the tickets for next weeks event.

Multiple major sources are reporting this read the rest of this thread and the globe and mail article. MLSE is not going to make moves unless they saw it as both possible and financially viable.