Sports in Canadian culture

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Barnard's Star

Per the last two posts, I think this whole news event is just a naked ticket grab by Rogers for the upcoming Bills game at the dome. The original story appeared on CBS citing "numerous sources" but I have no doubt it came out of MLSE or Rogers. I was appalled that they chose Grey Cup Sunday to do so.

Even more appalling is that they're trying to pick over Ralph Wilson's corpse while the man is still breathing. I don't follow the NFL at all but I really feel for the fans in Buffalo; there's no team coming to Toronto while the Bills remain in Buffalo and we shouldn't underestimate the degree to which the state of New York and the NFL itself will defend the status quo. There's just not enough upside to the move up north.

Yeah, it was pretty disgraceful of the media (who in general are in the back pocket of the likes of Rogers and MLSE) to run with this story during the biggest week of the year for the CFL. Coincidence?? I think not. I'm sure it was planned to divert some of the attention away from the CFL. Rooting for the death of elderly owner to get what you want is downright pathetic. At least Bon Jovi showed some respect in that regard.

A funny thing happened a few weeks ago. back in October you could go to the ticketmaster site and actually see how many seats were available for the Bills game in December. NO word of a lie there was still approx. 50% unsold seats in the building. Then shortly thereafter, they stopped showing how many seats were available. My guess is Rogers was embarrassed by the poor sales and asked ticketmaster to longer display all the unsold seats. YOu can still by seats of course, it 's just that you can't see how many individual seats remain unsold.

I don't buy the prices being too expensive either. If you look around at all the other unsold tickets for games at various NFL stadiums around the league on ticketmaster you will find that most have prices similarly priced or more expensive than comparable seats at Rogers..and in the case of club seats considerably more expensive than Rogers!

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Rooting for the death of elderly owner to get what you want is downright pathetic.

Where or when did this happen?

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Where is there a clear movent with regards to getting an NFL team? The commissioner doesn't even want an NFL team in Toronto. Most recently he stated the league and owners were looking at LA and London as expansion opportunities. Toronto's name was not even uttered.

Key word there is expansion. The Bills to Toronto would be a relocation.

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Also, take note that the Bills will be or will soon sign another 10-year lease with the stadium which will undergo $100 million or so in renovations. Breaking that lease would be cost prohibitive.

The Bills signed that lease extension last year - the financial details were posted in the Globe and Mail article that I linked earlier.

[Barnard's Star]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Where or when did this happen?

The entire Bon Jovi/MLSE idea is premised on purchasing Ralph Wilson's team after his death. It's a little like discussing who gets the house while grandpa's still in his rocker.

If it weren't distasteful then the Bon Jovi camp wouldn't have felt the need to deny it. From The Star: "'The Bills are not for sale and (Bon Jovi) has too much respect for (owner Ralph) Wilson to engage in any discussions of buying the team,' publicist Ken Sunshine said."

ADDENDUM: Oh, and the fact that Bon Jovi came out so quickly and clearly against the idea suggests what? That, of course, this is whole thing was orchestrated by Rogers/MLSE dropping clues to a couple of reporters. I'm not usually given to corporate conspiracies but the timing (day of Grey Cup and week before Bills in T.O.) is far, far too convenient.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Been hearing from a few people in southern Ontario that the leadup to the Pan Am games has not been going all too well. So what's the word on the games, Toronto and Hamilton? I'd like to hear the thoughts from the posters in Southern Ontario with regards to the Pan Am games. Are there cost overrruns? Poor organization? Poor leadership? Or are things progressing in a positive manner?

Its running smoothly, but the conservative opposition has chosen it as a new "Scandal" to focus on, even though it isn't. They are claiming that because of the liberals seperating the budget for the village due to its special status and how it will transition post games, that they were hiding the true cost of the games. They never were, articles going back to 2009 mention the $1.4 billion for the games and the $1.1 billion for the village, but the PCs are complaining that they weren't counted together for a singular $2.5 billion and therefor it is a huge scandal. read nothing into it. The gas plants are starting to dry up, and the PCs are looking for something new to hit them on.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Key word there is expansion. The Bills to Toronto would be a relocation.



The Bills signed that lease extension last year - the financial details were posted in the Globe and Mail article that I linked earlier.

Prior to the 2012 SuperBowl in his state of the league address, the commish made a point not to mention Toronto by name when asked by the media about relocation or expansion to Toronto. Instead he talked about strengthening the existing regional support for the Buffalo Bills referring to Southern Ontario, not Toronto.

The implication is clear, Toronto is seen as part of the Buffalo Bills territory and given his own personal interests (commish from western New York) and the interests of NFL owners any sort of move to Toronto, whether that be by expansion or relocation is a low priority if it even exists at all.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am not sure our stadiums match up well with Mexico's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...iums_in_Mexico

Not sure what you're getting at. All our small stadiums can expand to 40k and aside from Azteca, we match up in capacity. All we need is ten, maybe twelve.

[esquire]

Are there any other NFL teams in play that MLSE/Rogers is looking at other than the Bills?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is also the fact that all student sports in Quebec are now grouped under one organization: RSEQ (Réseau du sport étudiant québécois). This goes from my kids' elementary track and field competitions all the way up to university football with Laval, McGill, etc.

As a result, in football for example every echelon of a player's progression in the sport is mapped out by the RSEQ and it's clear in the kids' minds what they are aspiring to, all the way up to the university teams and also, to some degree, the Alouettes and the CFL even.

That's pretty cool, didn't know that. I've always thought that was something we should have in Canada, a formal and documented way of tracking potential athletes.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

Not sure what you're getting at. All our small stadiums can expand to 40k and aside from Azteca, we match up in capacity. All we need is ten, maybe twelve.

They have 14 stadiums of 30,000 or more already built.

We have seven. Plus we will have three between 20-25,000 which is way too small for a World Cup.

We would need to build 2-4 stadiums from scratch plus expand almost half of the ones we already have.

Stadium-wise I can't see how we are not disadvantaged compared to a country like Mexico.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Your comments in other threads indicate you really don't want an NFL franchise in Toronto to the point of gleefully gloating. We get it, you're a Winnipeg CFL fanboy whose insecure his favourite league will lose lustre with the country's biggest market adding yet another team. What you don't get is both leagues can exist side by side.
..

You would be correct if more Canadians were culturally mature, but in reality unfortunately many people aren't able to enjoy the best of what the world has to offer IN ADDITION to good Canadian stuff. It happens with Canadian football, movies, TV, everything.

''I only consume American (insert name of cultural product) because it's the best and the Canadian equivalent sucks so I ignore it''

I've never understood why so many can't enjoy Canadian movies in addition to Hollywood ones, or the CFL plus the NFL, and why it always has to be an exclusive EITHER OR choice.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

The argument that Toronto wants the NFL to be American or to be validated as a city by Americans is ridiculous. I want to watch the NFL because it's the best football league in the world, offering the highest level of competition. I would literally rather watch an exhibition NFL game than watch the Argos play in the Grey Cup. It's the same reason I don't follow the AHL or NCAA, who the hell wants to watch the feeder league regardless of whether or not it has more Canadians playing in it or not.

Exactly what I was referring to in post 271.

Who the hell wants to watch NCAA anyway?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...adium_2011.jpg

[Barnard's Star]

Originally Posted by esquire

Are there any other NFL teams in play that MLSE/Rogers is looking at other than the Bills?

The Saints were rumoured as a relocation candidate post-Katrina (way to kick 'em when they're down) -- a rumour Doug Ford revived a couple of years. But that was quickly shot down and the team has a long term deal with the state of Louisiana to stay where they are.

The Jacksonville Jaguars have probably been the most talked about candidate (to move to London as often as not). They had an ownership change recently that was supposed to secure them in Jacksonville but I don't think the relocation rumours have stopped. So I suppose they're still in play.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

What's added fuel to the Jacksonville rumours is the fact they are going to be playing a game in London in each of the next 3 years.

And their owner (Shahid Khan) just bought an EPL team in London as well - Fulham FC

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

They have 14 stadiums of 30,000 or more already built.

And have you seen the condition of some of them. Before any WC, we would get a new large stadium and one in Calgary and likely Halifax, that's 11. One city would host two stadiums.

Absolutely no reason why we couldn't host aside from political will. And Mexico is not exactly the most security conscious country.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Who the hell wants to watch NCAA anyway?

Most Americans do and high school too because they are actual football fans, not water cooler, commercialized, playoff pool fanboys in their parent's basement.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

And have you seen the condition of some of them. Before any WC, we would get a new large stadium and one in Calgary and likely Halifax, that's 11. One city would host two stadiums.

Absolutely no reason why we couldn't host aside from political will. And Mexico is not exactly the most security conscious country.

Don't get me wrong - I would love for Canada to host the WC. But I think we've got our work cut out for us stadium-wise if we want to put a bid together. It will be an expensive proposition compared to most host countries where almost all of the stadiums were already there. Shows just how much of a deficit we have on this front.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I watched the two big Canadian football cups on the weekend (Vanier and Grey) and this got me thinking TV ratings.

The Grey Cup got about 300,000 viewers in Quebec last year (no Alouettes).

The Vanier Cup averages about 500,000 viewers in Quebec when Laval are playing.

Therefore, it is highly likely that the Vanier Cup outdrew the Grey Cup for viewers this year in Quebec - especially since the Vanier Cup was a closer game, especially in the second half when Calgary pulled ahead at one point.

OK so the TV ratings are in from this weekend. I was not that far off!

Quebec only

Vanier Cup: 499,000

Grey Cup: 220,000

[Antigonish]

I enjoy the NCAA more than the NFL. The imperfect BCS system keeps up the banter and trash talk every day of the week. Every game means a championship or another wasted season, and all these kids are playing their best for the scouts.

This weekend will be the most nail biting week in the NCAA I can remember since Michigan and Ohio State played each other in the final week in 2006 (both 11-0 records).

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by Barnard's Star

Per the last two posts, I think this whole news event is just a naked ticket grab by Rogers for the upcoming Bills game at the dome. The original story appeared on CBS citing "numerous sources" but I have no doubt it came out of MLSE or Rogers. I was appalled that they chose Grey Cup Sunday to do so.

Even more appalling is that they're trying to pick over Ralph Wilson's corpse while the man is still breathing. I don't follow the NFL at all but I really feel for the fans in Buffalo; there's no team coming to Toronto while the Bills remain in Buffalo and we shouldn't underestimate the degree to which the state of New York and the NFL itself will defend the status quo. There's just not enough upside to the move up north.

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Yeah, it was pretty disgraceful of the media (who in general are in the back pocket of the likes of Rogers and MLSE) to run with this story during the biggest week of the year for the CFL. Coincidence?? I think not. I'm sure it was planned to divert some of the attention away from the CFL. Rooting for the death of elderly owner to get what you want is downright pathetic. At least Bon Jovi showed some respect in that regard.

A funny thing happened a few weeks ago. back in October you could go to the ticketmaster site and actually see how many seats were available for the Bills game in December. NO word of a lie there was still approx. 50% unsold seats in the building. Then shortly thereafter, they stopped showing how many seats were available. My guess is Rogers was embarrassed by the poor sales and asked ticketmaster to longer display all the unsold seats. YOu can still by seats of course, it 's just that you can't see how many individual seats remain unsold.

I don't buy the prices being too expensive either. If you look around at all the other unsold tickets for games at various NFL stadiums around the league on ticketmaster you will find that most have prices similarly priced or more expensive than comparable seats at Rogers..and in the case of club seats considerably more expensive than Rogers!

To add to these two posts, as of this past weekend there were still hundreds of tickets for sale on Kijiji and ebay as well. In past years that number has fallen off in the last week as scalpers start to take whatever they can get, rather than be left standing in front of the game with handfuls of tickets they can’t move for even 10% of face value, as has happed in the past. Clearly I doesn’t matter what the price is. There is just very little demand for live NFL football in Toronto. Throughout this whole series I don’t think they’ve sold much more than half the tickets to any of the games, and many of the ones they did sell were to scalpers who then had to resell them at big losses. You could have purchased a ticket to any one of these games for less than an Argos ticket would have cost you. I guess Rogers thought they could create a demand, because there’s nothing you can point to that suggests there was any significant demand to begin with, but they failed.