Speed limit enforcement in British Columbia

[Klazu]

One thing that always amazes me is how reckless driving culture Vancouver has. Especially speeding is a major issue and you can regularly see people doing 30-50km/h over the speed limit on Highway 1 and other highways. Driving "the standard" 10km/h above the speed limit will make you a traffic bottleneck in BC, which is something I have not seen so much anywhere else.

I am sure there are many reasons, but I am curious why there is so little law enforcement targeted to speeding in British Columbia? I have never seen a speed trap during my 2.5 years in here. Neither have I ever seen a patrol car on highway, pulling people over. One just needs to go across the border to Washington state and you see constantly people having been pulled over. I am not saying it reduces the amount of speeding in Washington vs. here, but at least they have active law enforcement happening.

I hate speed traps and cameras as much as everyone, but I find it interesting how in here police speed traps are announced even on the radio. In Europe that would be illegal and would never happen, but here they regularly inform drivers of speed traps. Is this really legal and do they do that also in other provinces?

Speed cameras are another topic that keeps puzzling me. Do we have those in BC or not? I have been reading some articles of Gordon Campbell having campaigned against them back in 2001, but did that lead to them being removed throughout the province or do those still exist? Red light cameras do exist (and good so), but I have never seen a speed camera in BC.

Last thing that I have been wondering are the signs they have along BC highways warning drivers of traffic laws being enforced by cameras. What exactly do those mean if there are no speed cameras? One sign exists on eastbound Upper Levels Highway, just after Horseshoe Bay.

I would really appreciate if someone would be able to answer these questions that I have been wondering since I moved in here.

[spm2013]

Pretty sure those are old signs when they had speed camera vans.

There's wreckless speeding and then there's setting up a speed camera van at the bottom of a hill and catching everyone going 10km/h over the speed limit. When it's more of a cash grab than anything to do with safety. Which is the major reason people hated them.

I think the thinking on announcing speed traps is that it will help slow people down. Is that effective? Who knows.

And I personally find aggressive drivers to be more of a problem than just out right speeding.

RCMP Traffic Services:

http://traffic.bc.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/Vie...1&contentId=-1

[GeeCee]

They also used to have fixed speed cameras which were indeed removed when the BC Liberals came back into power in 2001. The signs were put up at the same time that the speed cameras initially went up, but were never removed. You could argue that they refer to the red light cameras but it's a little bit flimsy.

In terms of why people speed, it's mostly because the speed limits are largely arbitrarily set to be too low for the roads in question. If they're too low, then the 'norm' will be breaking the speed limit. If the speed limits around here were actually set to the 85% percentile like they're supposed to be, it wouldn't be such an issue.

[Pinion]

^Yep, the speed limit is too low and everyone including cops knows it. I never speed in Washington because the limits are reasonable.

There are speed traps but they tend to be in the same spots over and over.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

They also used to have fixed speed cameras which were indeed removed when the BC Liberals came back into power in 2001. The signs were put up at the same time that the speed cameras initially went up, but were never removed. You could argue that they refer to the red light cameras but it's a little bit flimsy.

Thanks, that is the confirmation I was looking for. Seems to be pretty unique decision in all North-America still today.

I am also in the school of thought that our highway speed limits are 10-20km/h lower than what they should be and the roads would safely allow, but that doesn't justify the 110-130km/h speeds one constantly sees on the new Highway 1 (which is still 80km/h on Burnaby soil).

Also, I have never seen a patrol car on a major highway in BC. Why does it seem like they don't even try enforcing any traffic rules (not just speeding) on our highways? Seeing a police car every now and then will calm the traffic as you can't be sure if one would be near you at any given time.

As a disclaimer, I am in the "10km/h over club" with the vast majority of the people and I don't embrace crazy speeding.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I never speed in Washington because the limits are reasonable.

That's true, but my main reason is that in my mind American police officers are trigger-happy (or Tazer-happy) people that cannot be reasoned with at any situation. I just want to avoid the situation of having to confront them, so I never speed in the States.

My apologies for being so prejudiced.

[madog222]

Most people don't believe they are doing anything wrong, an increase in enforcement would not lower speeds.

Originally Posted by Klazu

Also, I have never seen a patrol car on a major highway in BC.

They are there, but mainly on rural highways looking for cars in the ditch or off a cliff, truckers with unsafe loads or vehicles, and the truly reckless drivers. I actually did see someone pulled over on hwy1 between Grandview and Willingdon just last week, look to be for one occupant in the HOV lane. The only time I've seen someone pulled over for speeding on the highway was over someone tearing up highway 5 just past hope, must have been at least 8 years ago.

[Whalleyboy]

While I agree speeding can be bad here but I also agree that speeds are to low on many roads around here. While I feel more things like reckless driving and lack of using signals and drunk driving etc should be prime focus for cops on the roads.

While I myself have seen many cops on the hwys and many people pulled over. I do not agree that more cops should be focused in on speeding. We need more cop feet on the ground then cops in cars on the hwy I believe. Surrey has noticed that this in the Newton area with the bike cop back.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Klazu

One thing that always amazes me is how reckless driving culture Vancouver has. Especially speeding is a major issue and you can regularly see people doing 30-50km/h over the speed limit on Highway 1 and other highways. Driving "the standard" 10km/h above the speed limit will make you a traffic bottleneck in BC, which is something I have not seen so much anywhere else.

I am sure there are many reasons, but I am curious why there is so little law enforcement targeted to speeding in British Columbia? I have never seen a speed trap during my 2.5 years in here. Neither have I ever seen a patrol car on highway, pulling people over. One just needs to go across the border to Washington state and you see constantly people having been pulled over. I am not saying it reduces the amount of speeding in Washington vs. here, but at least they have active law enforcement happening.

I hate speed traps and cameras as much as everyone, but I find it interesting how in here police speed traps are announced even on the radio. In Europe that would be illegal and would never happen, but here they regularly inform drivers of speed traps. Is this really legal and do they do that also in other provinces?

Speed cameras are another topic that keeps puzzling me. Do we have those in BC or not? I have been reading some articles of Gordon Campbell having campaigned against them back in 2001, but did that lead to them being removed throughout the province or do those still exist? Red light cameras do exist (and good so), but I have never seen a speed camera in BC.

Last thing that I have been wondering are the signs they have along BC highways warning drivers of traffic laws being enforced by cameras. What exactly do those mean if there are no speed cameras? One sign exists on eastbound Upper Levels Highway, just after Horseshoe Bay.

I would really appreciate if someone would be able to answer these questions that I have been wondering since I moved in here.

Simple answer, people on average drive a speed that they feel safe at not what a little white sign tells them. Speed limits are simply ridiculously low in BC for the design and abilities of cars on the road.

The stretch you mention in a follow up post in Burnaby being 80kph for example. To answer that, originally the speed limit was 90kph but they reduced it to 80 for the construction and have yet to remove the signs as there is still construction. Secondly, the highway is no different through that stretch than the stretch from Surrey to Langley yet that stretch is 100kph.

I made the point in another thread as to how you drive I5 in Washington state with a speed limit of 70mph then you cross the bridge into Oregon and the limit drops to 60mph on the same highway under the same conditions. Why? Because for some reason Portland thinks everyone should drive 10mph slower than in Washington on every single road.

Completely arbitrary and has no basis in safety or fact most of the time. If it had to do with safety, they would post either truck/car speed limit variations like they do in Washington or day/night speed limit variations like they do in Montana. Take Oak street as another example. It is 3 lanes wide (6 total lanes) which is wider than most streets in every other city in the region, yet the speed limit is 50kph.

To answer on the speed cameras though, they were only used to generate revenue and statistically did not increase safety or decrease motor vehicle accidents at all. Not only that but they were hugely unpopular so the government did away with them since they didn't get any revenue anyway, it went to the Police general revenue like all speeding infractions go to. Also they were simply fines not tickets since you can't prove with a speed camera who was driving the vehicle so they really didn't have any teeth.

So do I think people drive too fast in Vancouver? No. I think the speed LIMITs are too low. Remember the word is limit meaning the limit you should probably drive at. If everyone is breaking the LIMIT then the limit should probably be raised or re-evaluated for accuracy.

Only area I agree with speed limits are school zones, park zones, and active construction zones.

Finally to further underline my point, you're living in a region that at one point felt the speed limit along Hastings should be dropped to 30kph along the entire stretch to Burnaby because too many people J-walk across the road and run out in front of cars. So they wanted the speed limit reduced so that when cars hit the idiots, they are less likely to die. That's kind of like asking trains to go slower in areas where people stand on the train tracks randomly. Maybe they should stop standing on the train tracks or running out in front of moving cars?

No that would be too easy.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Whalleyboy

While I agree speeding can be bad here but I also agree that speeds are to low on many roads around here. While I feel more things like reckless driving and lack of using signals and drunk driving etc should be prime focus for cops on the roads.

While I myself have seen many cops on the hwys and many people pulled over. I do not agree that more cops should be focused in on speeding. We need more cop feet on the ground then cops in cars on the hwy I believe. Surrey has noticed that this in the Newton area with the bike cop back.

Or vehicles that can cause major havoc on the roads like a fully loaded container truck on SFPR doing 110kph following behind a car leaving only 5 feet between them. I have seen 15 cars pulled over on the SFPR and 0 trucks.

I'm with you, cops should enforce the real dangers like purposely reckless drivers (which to me includes those doing 20kph UNDER the speed limit in the left lane), cell phone users, texters, drunk drivers, trucks speeding, people that weave in and out of traffic, street racing, etc.

I happen to think the vast majority of people drive reasonable speeds on our roads in metro-Vancouver.

That and the vast majority of accidents on the road happen at intersections and interchanges where speed is far less of a factor than on straight stretches. Thus why I am absolutely 100% behind red light cameras and more of them.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by madog222

They are there, but mainly on rural highways looking for cars in the ditch or off a cliff, truckers with unsafe loads or vehicles, and the truly reckless drivers. I actually did see someone pulled over on hwy1 between Grandview and Willingdon just last week, look to be for one occupant in the HOV lane. The only time I've seen someone pulled over for speeding on the highway was over someone tearing up highway 5 just past hope, must have been at least 8 years ago.

Most patrol cars you see on highways aren't highway patrol. The majority of highway patrol (especially the RCMP) drive ghost cars these days. On SFPR most of the enforcement are done by police in Dodge Minivans and Nissan SUVs. There are also your standard black cop tucks and cars that are not quite as ghostly with their black rims, spot light, and radio pucks on the roof.

I do know though that Police in general are more inclined to enforce speed limits in town rather than on highways where the vast majority of people drive reasonable speeds. Trust me the Police know the speed limits in BC are far too low thus why they give people a lot of rope.

It's no different than pot enforcement in Vancouver. It is still completely illegal, but it is the norm and the Police have better stuff to deal with. If you drive reasonably and follow the general flow of traffic, you're fine regardless of if your speedo reads somewhat over the white sign.

[East Van]

Reckless speeding ? 110-120kms/hr in the fast lane now is normal. It's sounds like you've never traveled the 401 where speeds reach 150km/hr all day & signs have limits set at 100. Even trucks are driving as fast as they are geared for which is why the Hwy is littered with shredded tires. As for speed traps, cops are all over Hwy 1 at night sticking radar guns out their windows in the of darkest spots. With the RCMP right beside Gaglardi exit they are all over the highway, watch out for ghost cars...

Bottom line: Hwy speed limits are too low for modern cars today & municipalities are hungry for our money.

[WarrenC12]

One thing that annoys me is seeing VPD and other police cars roaming around, but never warning and/or ticketing people who are acting illegally, either drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, etc.

[Jimby]

I'm on Bowen Island where the top speed limit is 40 and the RCMP do use radar for speed enforcement in a 30 zone.

[Canadian Mind]

Klazu,

in my experience it really isn't all that different than Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto, Minneapolis, Chicago, NYC, or Washington DC. People seem to drive like idiots in urban areas, and I think it's the riot mentality. When there is so many people breaking the law, the cops are powerless to do anything about it (which is the case), and as such people know they could get away with it.

That said, the limits are also stupidly low in the region. The #1 really could be 100 or even 110 from Langley to the Second Narrows, and 90 up to Horse Shoe Bay. SFPR, 99, etc are also set about 20 lower than they could be.


So why don't the cops enforce? As I said, just too many people doing it. You can't pull over everyone. and as soon as you pull over someone doing 30 over, someone will rip by you and 40+ over the limit. There is no winning.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

One thing that annoys me is seeing VPD and other police cars roaming around, but never warning and/or ticketing people who are acting illegally, either drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, etc.

I had a situation a few years ago when I was crossing Cordova Street at Bute St. I was in the middle of the crosswalk, heading north, and had just walked in front of a westbound Big Red Bus that was waiting at the stop line preparing to turn left onto Bute.

Suddenly, the bus accelerated as I was in front of it and instinctively I exclaimed my surprise and looked up at the driver while jumping a metre to the left to be clear of its initial forward motion. The driver's head snapped around (he had been looking over to the right and I guess back towards his passengers in the bus) and he slammed on the brakes and came to a stop an arm's length from me half-way through the pedestrian crosswalk, occupying exactly the same space where I had been before jumping clear. I looked to the north side of the intersection where a VPD motorcycle officer was parked on the sidewalk. Finally there's an officer when you need one!

I gestured for his assistance with 'did you see that? WTF!' body language. I continued crossing the street and approached the officer while the bus sped off, but the officer preemptively said that he didn't see it happen and couldn't help. I was incredulous. He was right there. The bus had very squeaky brakes and when the driver braked to avoid hitting me it was probably this sound that brought the officer's head up. What he would have seen was a pedestrian in the middle of the street in the crosswalk right in front of a bus that was half-way into the crosswalk and a good couple of metres from the stop line.

There are really only a few scenarios: (1) the driver knowingly accelerated into the crosswalk while a pedestrian (me) was immediately in front (criminal negligence?); (2) the driver accelerated into the crosswalk without ensuring that it was clear (I think this is what happened and it strikes me as fairly simple negligence/unsafe operation of a vehicle); or (3) on my own volition I ran into the middle of the street and jumped in front of a bus as it accelerated.

The officer refused to take a statement so that I could file a report. Unbelievable. It still gets me pulse rate up thinking about that. I did make a complaint to the company and their GM called me back and apologised and explained that the driver was one of their most experienced staff and had never had an incident before. None the less, he would talk to him and hoped that this would satisfy my concern.

[Klazu]

How much is a ticket for speeding or running a red light? Are we talking about peanuts which causes people not to care? How does the points system work? I am just curious to understand how the local system works.

Talking about speed limits, I am surprised how come there are no electronic speed limits in BC. In Europe it is almost a given that a new major highway (like Highway 1) will be built with electronic speed limits that can be adjusted based on weather and traffic congestion. Here I think the nearest I have seen are in Montana and Easter Washington mountain passes.

[spm2013]

Originally Posted by Klazu

How much is a ticket for speeding or running a red light? Are we talking about peanuts which causes people not to care? How does the points system work? I am just curious to understand how the local system works.

Talking about speed limits, I am surprised how come there are no electronic speed limits in BC. In Europe it is almost a given that a new major highway (like Highway 1) will be built with electronic speed limits that can be adjusted based on weather and traffic congestion. Here I think the nearest I have seen are in Montana and Easter Washington mountain passes.

$167 for a red light ticket

Fines/points/driver penalty points system on the ICBC site:

http://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing...s/fines-points

http://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/tickets/dpp

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Pinion

^Yep, the speed limit is too low and everyone including cops knows it. I never speed in Washington because the limits are reasonable.

There are speed traps but they tend to be in the same spots over and over.

I used to drive into Washington a fair bit, and I agree with you, at least regarding the I-5 and such.
However, are you also referring to more minor streets and roads, perhaps even Seattle itself? It seems to me that in the city itself, the traffic is slower than Vancouver,
or maybe it's just an impression.
{San Francisco central city traffic seems slower than here, too (except on streets like Geary, but that's off topic, pls excuse me)}

[Genauso]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Talking about speed limits, I am surprised how come there are no electronic speed limits in BC. In Europe it is almost a given that a new major highway (like Highway 1) will be built with electronic speed limits that can be adjusted based on weather and traffic congestion. Here I think the nearest I have seen are in Montana and Easter Washington mountain passes.

I believe the Coquihalla highway has variable speed limits; it's certainly the exception.