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  #41  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
So basically the initial glossy rendering was a cocktail napkin drawing?
Looks like that's all it's good for.
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  #42  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 7:00 PM
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The way this is going, the best we can expect is a 12 storey rental apartment ironically called "SkyCity".
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  #43  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 7:17 PM
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Originally Posted by h0twired View Post
The way this is going, the best we can expect is a 12 storey rental apartment ironically called "SkyCity".
To be honest, if the outcome of this was a 12 story residential building with grocery store on that surface lot, I'd be happy. A new tallest would be nice, but several mid-sized residential buildings would really help fill out the downtown. Especially if they replace surface parking lots.
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  #44  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Authentic_City View Post
To be honest, if the outcome of this was a 12 story residential building with grocery store on that surface lot, I'd be happy. A new tallest would be nice, but several mid-sized residential buildings would really help fill out the downtown. Especially if they replace surface parking lots.

I would looooove a 12 storey residential building on that lot. Retail (bonus), Grocery (massive bonus), tall building (bonus), Winnipeg's tallest (super bonus).

I said this before, if, when this thing was announced last year they announced a 12 storey condo for the site people would have been shitting out unicorns.
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  #45  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
Murray McNeill will literally print anything. This project and these guys are all completely full of shit. They've been announcing projects left and right since this one. There's nobody paying attention to anything except raising money from idiots.
+1.

Eventually you run out of idiots to sell junk bonds to...

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...260372621.html

Quote:
Fortress and Mady have raised about $10 million toward the project through an earlier offering. Under the banner of LiveWorkPlay Winnipeg Developments Ltd., they've also issued a $30-million bond offering to ordinary investors, offering eight per cent annual returns.

According to a December 2013 analysis by Vancouver's Fundamental Research Corp., LiveWorkPlay estimated they'll need to secure $47 million in equity through the two bond offerings to obtain the construction financing necessary for the project to proceed.

The analyst's report noted Fortress is offering profits from bonds instead of an equity position in the development. This makes it more difficult for the project to proceed, as the firm must fork over money from the project before it has any cash flow.

"In order to do this, Fortress maintains an interest reserve from the total capital raised. The impact of this is that a lower percentage of the gross funds raised goes into project development," the analyst wrote.

When fees are taken into account, only 37 per cent of the cash raised through the bond offering will be devoted to the actual development, the analyst estimated, adding Fortress and Mady have not invested any of their own funds in the bond offering.

LiveWorkPlay intends to loan the invested funds to the numbered company that owns the surface-parking lot. Although Fortress and Mady own that company, this structure means "there is limited recourse for investors in the event of default," the analyst noted.

The analyst also stated investors might not be able to get all their principal and interest back if the property has to be liquidated.

Overall, the report rated the eight per cent LiveWorkPlay bond offering "highly speculative" from a risk perspective and stated it offers a weak return in comparison to the risk.
Wait a year and the internet will be full of posts from people who were "duped" by Jawad Rathore and his team...there are already plenty from his previous time in securities (before he was banned for life and fined $3 million).
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  #46  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 8:54 PM
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Oh oh, this thread's google rank is rising... I hope it doesn't suffer the same fate as the last one!
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  #47  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
I would looooove a 12 storey residential building on that lot. Retail (bonus), Grocery (massive bonus), tall building (bonus), Winnipeg's tallest (super bonus).

I said this before, if, when this thing was announced last year they announced a 12 storey condo for the site people would have been shitting out unicorns.
Well put and very accurate. Even if this particular project was cut in half it would still be a net gain for downtown no matter how you look at it.
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  #48  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 9:42 PM
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What is unfortunate is that the people investing are very inexperienced types of investors. Just look at the pictures of the "brokers" they have at their events - do those people look like they know real estate?

The whole concept behind Fortress works very well in an upswing, but in a downswing, the investors get hurt. Fortress takes their massive fees right off the top, which is why they announce so many projects and buy so many vacant sites. It's easy to get a nice fancy rendering.
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  #49  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
I would looooove a 12 storey residential building on that lot. Retail (bonus), Grocery (massive bonus), tall building (bonus), Winnipeg's tallest (super bonus).

I said this before, if, when this thing was announced last year they announced a 12 storey condo for the site people would have been shitting out unicorns.
How's anybody going to build a 12-storey complex on land that they paid $9.5MM for? They would assuredly be in default to the original investors on that purchase - a separate entity altogether - and would likely be sued for misrepresentation. Fortress either has to get the value out of that land - which is somewhere on the order of 380 units - or they have to buy out the original investors and take a write-down on the value which would have to come out of their pocket. That would also be their first money into the project; lighting about $4MM on fire.

Stop paying any attention to this project.
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  #50  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
How's anybody going to build a 12-storey complex on land that they paid $9.5MM for? They would assuredly be in default to the original investors on that purchase - a separate entity altogether - and would likely be sued for misrepresentation. Fortress either has to get the value out of that land - which is somewhere on the order of 380 units - or they have to buy out the original investors and take a write-down on the value which would have to come out of their pocket. That would also be their first money into the project; lighting about $4MM on fire.

Stop paying any attention to this project.
He is correct.

I have paid for land the past 5 years:

12 units: $200K = $16.66K per unit

24 units: $250K = $10.4K per unit

Sky City 380 units : $9.5M = $25K per unit if they build all the units.

If the project is downsized to 1/2 then it will be $50K per unit.

That is pretty tough to sell a $200K condo when the land cost if $50K.
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  #51  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 10:15 AM
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I'll be totally honest...if this thing manages to get shovels in the ground, I'd be more than happy to buy into it.
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  #52  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Twoscents View Post
Could be the case. This was added the other day to the SkyCity Twitter account but dated Oct.21.

https://twitter.com/FortressRDI/stat...44910775803904
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  #53  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 2:39 PM
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So is EllisDon coming in to provide funding? Why else would they partner with a construction firm at this point. EllisDon is not a stupid, inexperienced "broker". So I would have to think they're not coming in to this to skim some fees.
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  #54  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 4:02 PM
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This is just a general partnership between MAdy and ED. ED is going to build all of Mady's stuff across canada. They aren't involved financially. If Mady gets a project off the ground, ED builds it.
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  #55  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 4:08 PM
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Ahh, I see. It's just a general partnership, not specific to SkyCity.
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  #56  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 4:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
Ahh, I see. It's just a general partnership, not specific to SkyCity.
Nope.

Mady can't form the bond, EllisDon steps in. It's worth noting that there are very few subs left in Winnipeg who are willing to work with EllisDon anymore after the airport fiasco. Interesting partnership.
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  #57  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 5:44 PM
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Doesn't sound very good to me. Kind of the "on life support" announcement.
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  #58  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 5:56 PM
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Doesn't sound very good to me. Kind of the "on life support" announcement.
This is just an everyday press release from the Toronto office talking about how EllisDon will now be the constructor-of-favour for Mady's high-rise projects. It's just there to get the EllisDon troops excited. It really has no bearing on SkyCity, good or bad.

The only thing of note in this release is that EllisDon does have an equity arm. The fact that they aren't explicitly stating that they're partnering with Mady to float them through construction tells you all you need to know about Mady.

So congratulations to EllisDon; if Mady can pay them, they'll construct their high-rises for them. As would anybody. I'm not sure this is news.
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  #59  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 6:06 PM
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Okay, cool. It was starting to sounds like a P3 type scenario. EllisDon funds and builds the thing. Then "sells it back to the owner". We'll see if EllisDon gets their hands into the Transitway P3. ED also is building Keeyask.
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  #60  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 6:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
Okay, cool. It was starting to sounds like a P3 type scenario. EllisDon funds and builds the thing. Then "sells it back to the owner". We'll see if EllisDon gets their hands into the Transitway P3. ED also is building Keeyask.
I don't think there's any doubt. There are only a few companies that can both carry that bond and hold the financing on a P3 of that size.
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