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  #61  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2015, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
The French Senate fixed the limits of the Greater Paris Metropolis last week. If the National Assembly does not change before July what the Senate has done, then this is what the territory of the Greater Paris Metropolis should look like when it comes into existence on January 1, 2016.

The Métropole du Grand Paris (Greater Paris Metropolis) will:
  • include 133 communes (municipalies), i.e. City of Paris + 132 "suburban" municipalities
  • cover exactly 840 km² (324 mi²), i.e. 105 km² of City of Paris + 735 km² of inner and outer suburbs. Unfortunately many outer suburbs will not be included in the Greater Paris Metropolis, because the members of Parliament chose the path of least resistance and opted for a Greater Paris Metropolis essentially limited to the inner suburbs. For comparison, Greater London covers 1,572 km², and even the city of Rome covers 1,287 km².
  • have 7,014,165 inhabitants (that's the population of those 840 km² at the 2012 census). The population density was thus 8,350 inh. per km² (21,626 ppsm) at the 2012 census (25,757 inh. per km² / 66,711 ppsm in the City of Paris; 6,498 inh. per km² / 16,829 ppsm in the "suburbs").
  • be ruled by a "metropolitan council" made up of approx. 210 members representing the 133 communes
  • be divided into gigantic EPTs ("établissements publics territoriaux"), similar to London boroughs, whose exact numbers and limits will be known this summer (the EPTs must contain more than 300,000 inhabitants each, it's a mandatory requirement). I say "gigantic" in a French context (of minuscule communes), because of course those EPTs will be smaller than the NYC boroughs.
  • change Paris forever, but nobody knows exactly in what ways. Everybody (Parliament, government, local officials and mayors) is a bit lost after the 8 (8!) back and forth in Parliament that this Greater Paris bill has been submitted to, nobody knows where we're going exactly, but we're going 'there'. Armageddon starts on January 1, 2016 if you're to believe the local politicians. They are all peeing in their pants at the moment. Fun to watch.
  • (oh yeah, I almost forgot) perhaps be expanded to cover the entire 12,012 km² (4,638 mi²) of the Paris Region. Now some politicians in the government have 2nd thoughts, they think the territory of the Greater Paris Metropolis is too small (it will include Orly Airport in its entirety for example, but only one-third of CDG Airport, and none of the French 'MITs' located on the Plateau de Saclay, which concentrates Paris's top-notch engineering schools and scientific campuses), and it makes no sense to have a regional authority distinct from the metropolitan authority, so it would be better to merge the metropolis and the region. As of now we're heading towards a 840 km² metropolis on Jan. 1, 2016. After that, only God knows.

In the picture below that I took three days ago in the southern suburbs of Paris exactly 22.5 km (14 miles) south of Notre Dame Cathedral, everything will be outside of the Greater Paris Metropolis, which shows the absurdity of these narrow borders (at the same distance from St Paul's Cathedral in London we would be in the southern part of the Borough of Croydon, fully inside Greater London). There are about 300,000 people who live in this picture.

Thank you.

The limit of the Métropole du Grand Paris as voted by the French Senate.




Last edited by Minato Ku; Jun 7, 2015 at 8:09 PM.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2015, 1:08 AM
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so will this force a consolidation of government (and government employees and politicians will lose jobs) or will it call for resassignments and additional government jobs?
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  #63  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2015, 4:49 AM
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^ That's the obvious issue making the reform so hard to pass.

There is no way any public employee gets fired. I guess some could be reassigned to different missions when it's relevant, and less could be hired in overstaffed services (in such cases, employees retiring wouldn't be replaced). But it would have to be done carefully, by accurately assessing the needs of each public service.

Given our current situation, I tend to agree on the local conservative policy in that matter for now: a bit less of public employees that should be better paid, but again, it depends on services. For example, doctors and nurses would be overworked in public hospitals that would be short-staffed for now, which is quite unhealthy.

Less politicians on the other hand is absolutely advisable here.
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  #64  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2015, 11:44 AM
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The decree setting the exact limits of the Greater Paris Metropolis (Métropole du Grand Paris, or MGP) was published in the Official Journal of the French Republic last Friday (Oct. 4).

We know now the definite extent of the MGP that will come into existence on Jan. 1, 2016, although things are in a state of flux after that (see the last bullet point below).

Two right-wing communes have been kicked out from the MGP by the National Assembly during the summer: Chelles and Verrières-le-Buisson. In the case of Chelles, the left-wing local deputy in the National Assembly managed to have the assembly vote to kick out Chelles from the MGP. The right-wing mayor, who wished for Chelles to join the MGP, which will be ruled by right-wing parties, is outraged, but the left-wing deputy (and left-wing opposition in the municipal council) did not want Chelles to join a right-wing MGP, and the Socialist government granted him his wish.

Verrières-le-Buisson was a collateral damage of that Chelles shenanigan. The right-wing municipal council of Verrières-le-Buisson had voted in favor of joining the MGP after the legal delay they had to do so, but the Socialist minister in charge of local governments had told them that the law would be amended to allow them to join, yet the way the law was rewritten to forbid Chelles from joining the MGP also mechanically prevented Verrières-le-Buisson from joining, and the Socialist minister could do nothing about it. The mayor of Verrières-le-Buisson is furious.

As for Wissous, they stupidly voted against joining the MPG, but that we already knew when I wrote my post last June.

Here below I have amended my post from last June to reflect the changes since then.
Quote:
The French Senate fixed the limits of the Greater Paris Metropolis last week. If the National Assembly does not change before July what the Senate has done, then The National Assembly changed what the Senate had done, and so according to the decree published on Oct. 2 this is what the territory of the Greater Paris Metropolis should will look like when it comes into existence on January 1, 2016.

The Métropole du Grand Paris (Greater Paris Metropolis) will:
  • include 133 131 communes (municipalies), i.e. City of Paris + 132 130 "suburban" municipalities
  • cover exactly 840 km² (324 mi²) 814 km² (314 mi²), i.e. 105 km² of City of Paris + 735 709 km² of inner and outer suburbs. Unfortunately many outer suburbs will not be included in the Greater Paris Metropolis, because the members of Parliament chose the path of least resistance and opted for a Greater Paris Metropolis essentially limited to the inner suburbs. For comparison, Greater London covers 1,572 km², and even the city of Rome covers 1,287 km².
  • have 7,014,165 6,945,306 inhabitants (that's the population of those 840 814 km² at the 2012 census). The population density was thus 8,350 inh. per km² (21,626 ppsm) 8,530 inh. per km² (22,092 ppsm) at the 2012 census (25,757 inh. per km² / 66,711 ppsm in the City of Paris; 6,498 inh. per km² / 16,829 ppsm 6,637 inh. per km² / 17,190 ppsm in the "suburbs").
  • be ruled by a "metropolitan council" made up of approx. 210 members representing the 133 131 communes
  • be divided into 12 gigantic EPTs ("établissements publics territoriaux"), similar to London boroughs or Berlin Bezirke, whose exact numbers and limits will be known this summer (the EPTs must contain more than 300,000 inhabitants each, it's a mandatory requirement). I say "gigantic" in a French context (of minuscule communes), because of course those EPTs will be smaller than the NYC boroughs.
  • change Paris forever, but nobody knows exactly in what ways. Everybody (Parliament, government, local officials and mayors) is a bit lost after the 8 (8!) back and forth in Parliament that this Greater Paris bill has been submitted to, nobody knows where we're going exactly, but we're going 'there'. Armageddon starts on January 1, 2016 if you're to believe the local politicians. They are all peeing in their pants at the moment. Fun to watch.
  • (oh yeah, I almost forgot) perhaps be expanded to cover the entire 12,012 km² (4,638 mi²) of the Paris Region. Now some politicians in the government have 2nd thoughts, they think the territory of the Greater Paris Metropolis is too small (it will include Orly Airport in its entirety for example, but only one-third of CDG Airport, and none of the French 'MITs' located on the Plateau de Saclay, which concentrates Paris's top-notch engineering schools and scientific campuses), and it makes no sense to have a regional authority distinct from the metropolitan authority, so it would be better to merge the metropolis and the region. As of now we're heading towards a 840 814 km² metropolis on Jan. 1, 2016. After that, only God knows. Latest news: if the Socialists manage to keep the Paris Region in the regional elections in December, they have already let it be known that the Métropole du Grand Paris, whose majority on a 814 km² territory is right-wing, will be expanded to cover the entire Paris Region and merged with the region. The region would become the metropolis.
Below is the bizarre map of the Métropole du Grand Paris as it will come into existence on Jan. 1, 2016. Wissous, which refused to join, is almost totally surrounded by the MGP and forms a sort of enclave. I'm also posting maps showing the extent of territory around Central Paris corresponding to the size of Berlin and London. It shows how ridiculously small is this MGP compared to the real extent of Paris's urbanization. If you compare with the Berlin map, you can also notice that some dense communes to the West and North-West have not been included while some less dense communes to the South-East have been included. Politics!





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  #65  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2015, 10:32 PM
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Well, I have the impression, except for you, there are very few people in France are interested whether this new Paris will harbour more people than London, Berlin or Rome. French public and politicians are probably more focused on the local issues.
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  #66  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2015, 7:03 PM
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The stupid-article-of-the-day, in the Wall Street Journal, and the comment I left them.

Quote:
Finding a Paris Apartment: It Was Definitely Easier for Hemingway!

By Matthew Dalton
Wall Street Journal
November 5, 2015

When Ernest Hemingway and his wife, Hadley, arrived in Paris in 1921, he was a struggling writer without a steady job. Though poor—Hemingway strangled pigeons in the Luxembourg Garden and cooked them for dinner when cash was low—they took only a month to find an apartment, in the Latin Quarter no less.

After months of my own search for an apartment to rent in Paris, I’ll say this about the Hemingways: If they had arrived in the city today, they would have stood no chance of finding one. As a foreigner without a contrat de travail à duree indéterminée, or C.D.I.—a work contract of unlimited duration—Parisian landlords would have viewed the great American writer as an unacceptably risky tenant. He might have been forced to return to the U.S. Hemingway’s moveable feast would have ended before it had begun.

Paris is a beautiful but unwelcoming city, and its landlords are the forbidding gatekeepers. You can’t just show up here with some cash in your pocket and a dream—unless you’re prepared to stay with friends indefinitely, if you have any who are willing to tolerate your extended presence on the couch or in the guest bedroom. It’s no longer the Bohemian city that drew Hemingway and his circle of artists and writers: James Joyce, Gertrude Stein, Ezra Pound, and others.

When I moved to Paris with The Wall Street Journal at the beginning of July with my wife and two children, I enjoyed considerable advantages over Hemingway. I had a C.D.I.; and I was able to use a company to help me find an apartment in Paris.

Yet landlord after landlord rejected my dossier—the thick stack of documents that prospective renters must assemble to reassure jumpy French landlords. The usual reason, when I was told why, was that I didn’t earn enough money to afford the apartment we wanted. The rule of thumb here is that renters shouldn’t pay more than a third of after-tax income in rent.

This skepticism persisted even though I said I was prepared to do something demanded by many Parisian landlords: place an entire year’s rent into a bank account that the landlord can seize if I stop paying the rent. By the time we found our apartment after nearly three months, we had moved four times, like frogs hopping from lily pad to lily pad.

Paris has a problem shared by the world’s most glamorous and attractive cities: Demand for housing far outstrips supply. Beside Paris, the clearest examples are London, New York and San Francisco, but there are others.

The problem in the French capital is particularly acute, for several reasons. The weight of history is perhaps heavier here than anywhere in the world. All those beautiful stone buildings are pieces of art in their own right and will never be torn down to make way for taller buildings that would increase the supply of housing within the city. That has effectively turned Paris into a museum, frozen in time since the early 20th century. There’s not going to be many new places to live in Paris, maybe ever.

Thus the Parisian property-owner is sitting on a goldmine. But French law makes it difficult to evict renters who stop paying their rent, sowing paranoia deep into the psyche of the city’s landlords. Stories abound of people keeping their apartments vacant for years rather than allowing tenants they suspect might not be able to pay in the future to live in their apartment.

This attitude is a problem for Paris, and for France. It makes living in Paris difficult for entire classes of people, particularly those who don’t have a C.D.I. These often include newly minted entrepreneurs, freelancers, starving artists, marginally employed dreamers, future Hemingways, etc.In short, the kinds of people who make major metropolises the interesting, economically vibrant places they are supposed to be.

For now, though, the global appeal of Paris only grows. It is among the world’s most popular tourist destinations, most recently drawing rapidly increasing numbers of people from Asia eager to lay eyes on the French capital and splurge on the marquee names of French fashion.

In September, I was interviewing a refugee from Iraq in a small town southeast of Paris. This man had fled Mosul, a city now controlled by the militants of Islamic State, travelled thousands of miles over land and sea and arrived recently in Munich, where he had accepted an offer announced by French officials at Munich train station to come live in France.

Why, after reaching the promised land in Germany, had he decided to keep going?

“I have dreamed of Paris since I was little,” he said. Paris—or at least the idea of Paris—had prompted this man to make aesthetic decisions even as he fled for his life.

The French capital was only an hour’s train ride away. But I knew that the road for him to an apartment here would be considerably longer than that.

Matthew Dalton has been reporting from Europe for the past seven years for The Wall Street Journal, based previously in Brussels. He has covered the eurozone debt crisis, trade negotiations, European economics and terrorism, among other things. Matthew was born and raised in New York City.

http://blogs.wsj.com/expat/2015/11/0...for-hemingway/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisavoine
"There’s not going to be many new places to live in Paris, maybe ever." Uh... there is already more housing per sq. mile in central Paris than in the central areas of any other Western city except perhaps Manhattan. So the problem here is not that it's not possible to build taller in central Paris, whose density is already way way higher than central London, Tokyo, Berlin, Montréal, you name it. The problem, I'm guessing, is that like many foreign journalists, you've been looking for an apartment only in central Paris, and did not venture into zone 2, 3, 4 or 5 of the Paris Métro, where most Parisians live, and where housing is more accessible.

Now my question is: if you were posted to London or Tokyo, would you be looking for an apartment only in zone 1 of the Tube or just around the Imperial Palace of Tokyo? Probably not. You, like 99% of people, would have looked for better opportunities in farther areas of London and Tokyo. So why, when it is Paris, foreign journalists only look for housing in the most central areas, as if there was no life beyond? Zones 2 to 5 of the Paris Métro contain some absolutely charming areas with great quality of life and much cheaper and more accessible housing than central Paris, such as for example Sèvres, Montmorency, Marly-le-Roi, Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Sceaux. It's not like there's a lack of choice of wonderful neighborhoods where you could live not just in a cramped apartment, but in a house with garden and park or forest nearby for your kids!
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  #67  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2015, 1:30 AM
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Final map of the 12 EPTs of the Greater Paris Metropolis. The names are provisional.



The population of each EPT in 2012 as well as the yearly growth rate between 2007 and 2012.

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  #68  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 10:14 AM
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Not sure where I got it from but wasn't making the subdivisions fairly equal in population part of the plan?
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  #69  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 10:59 AM
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A council of 210 people representing 133 separate communes sounds like a horribly inefficient mode of administration.

Just divide it all up into 30-40 boroughs represented by 30-40 councillors and call it a day.
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  #70  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 2:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Swede View Post
Not sure where I got it from but wasn't making the subdivisions fairly equal in population part of the plan?
The goal was to make the subdivisions outside of the City of Paris fairly equal in population, which they are, more or less (except the "La Défense" EPT which is too large I find, and obviously also the elongated EPT south of the City of Paris which results from the fact the communes around Orly Airport all wished to join the Greater Paris Metropolis). The City of Paris itself cannot be divided into several EPTs, because a commune must belong fully to one EPT. Only if the commune of Paris was abolished would it be possible to divide its territory into various EPTs (in fact some have even proposed to create EPTs straddling the Périphérique, to completely erase this outdated administrative borders).

Unfortunately, at this point it's still taboo to talk about abolishing the commune of Paris. The Mayor of Paris would be up in arms if a French government proposed that. In the longer term, however, this will become inevitable. A true Greater Paris Metropolis cannot co-exist with the commune of Paris. It makes simply no sense. Starting on January 1, we will have both a Mayor of Paris and a President of the Greater Paris Metropolis, both fighting for their own turf. This is unhealthy and unsustainable. It'll probably take a few years of feuding between these two (especially considering the great likelihood that the first President of the Greater Paris Metropolis next year will be the main opponent of the Mayor of Paris in the last municipal elections) before the government realize such a dual system of authority cannot work. There can't be two captains in the same plane.
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  #71  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 3:00 PM
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New Brisavoine, you're missing the point of the article. The foreign buyer isn't looking to live in a Parisian suburb, nor are they looking to live in an outer borough of London.
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  #72  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 6:03 PM
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The article is not about a wealthy foreign buyer who want a place for prestige but a working expat.
He does not need a luxury pied-à-terre but a place to live with his family.
I don't understand why he didn't even try looking outside the Peripherique.

He would have find cheaper prices, larger apartments or single family houses and more modern accommodation than in inner Paris.
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  #73  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 7:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
The article is not about a wealthy foreign buyer who want a place for prestige but a working expat.
He does not need a luxury pied-à-terre but a place to live with his family.
I don't understand why he didn't even try looking outside the Peripherique.

He would have find cheaper prices, larger apartments or single family houses and more modern accommodation than in inner Paris.
Even a working expat doesn't want to live outside of the Peripherique. I wouldn't move to Paris to live in a suburb either. It's not about prestige, it's about the lifestyle, and the point of spending a portion of your career and life in Paris is to live in the city of Paris.

I don't think many French businessmen who went to live in New York for a few years would want to be in Hoboken or Long Island either. They would want to experience Manhattan (or nowadays maybe Brooklyn).
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  #74  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 8:42 PM
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Even a working expat doesn't want to live outside of the Peripherique. I wouldn't move to Paris to live in a suburb either. It's not about prestige, it's about the lifestyle, and the point of spending a portion of your career and life in Paris is to live in the city of Paris.
Ignorance again. Many rich First World expats live in the suburbs and not in the city proper. For example my cousin who is a wealthy engineer lives in the suburb of Saint-Germain-en-Laye, and his neighbor there is a Norwegian expat. In fact there's an international high school in Saint-Germain-en-Laye for children of expats. The so-called British School of Paris is also located in the western suburb of Croissy-sur-Seine and not in the City of Paris proper.

If we look at figures from the 2012 census, there lived 8,810 British citizens in the City of Paris vs 12,190 who lived in the suburbs. There were 7,953 German citizens who lived in the City of Paris vs 11,263 who lived in the suburbs. There were 1,665 Dutch citizens who lived in the City of Paris vs 4,171 in the suburbs.

North Americans are apparently less familiar with the urban structure of Greater Paris and more influenced by a 'Ratatouillesque' view of Paris, so we find that in 2012 there were 10,019 US citizens who lived in the City of Paris vs only 6,537 who lived in the suburbs. The Canadians were 2,672 in the City of Paris and 2,471 in the suburbs. The Japanese were also more into that 'Amélie' sort of life, with 7,266 in the City of Paris and only 4,533 in the suburbs.
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I don't think many French businessmen who went to live in New York for a few years would want to be in Hoboken or Long Island either. They would want to experience Manhattan (or nowadays maybe Brooklyn).
Another (French) cousin of mine who moved to NYC and worked there (fort Saint-Gobain, in Midtown Manhattan), lived in Weehawken (NJ). Not everybody can afford to live in Manhattan you know.
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  #75  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 10:38 PM
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Well, for living or for tourism, I always stay in the best parts of a city. Always. I don't see the point of not taking the most of a city can offer.
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  #76  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 10:56 PM
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Well, when you are in family, you want to live in a calm neighbourhood and in a big house.
The so called "best" parts of city are not necessarily the best parts to raise your kids.
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Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Final map of the 12 EPTs of the Greater Paris Metropolis. The names are provisional.


Where is the EuroDisney EPT ???

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  #78  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 11:44 PM
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Well, for living or for tourism, I always stay in the best parts of a city. Always. I don't see the point of not taking the most of a city can offer.
If you don't have 1 million euros to buy an apartment in the City of Paris, you'll quickly drop your stance and bow to the inevitable: a 500,000 euros apartment in the 1st ring of suburbs, or a 300,000 euros one in the 2nd ring of suburbs.

My cousin the engineer always makes fun of his colleagues who pay astronomical sums of money to live in cramped apartments in the city center, when he lives in a large and comfortable house in the suburbs. He says the only thing that matters to them is having the name "Paris" at the end of their postal address, which is ridiculous. Living in the suburbs, he can access all the amenities of central Paris by car (like opera, concerts, etc), without having to ruin himself and live in a small cramped apartment.
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Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
If you don't have 1 million euros to buy an apartment in the City of Paris, you'll quickly drop your stance and bow to the inevitable: a 500,000 euros apartment in the 1st ring of suburbs, or a 300,000 euros one in the 2nd ring of suburbs.
Or I just dropped moving there. I moved from Londrina to São Paulo for a job/career. Of course, I chose the best to live, otherwise I wouldn't bother to come.


Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
My cousin the engineer always makes fun of his colleagues who pay astronomical sums of money to live in cramped apartments in the city center, when he lives in a large and comfortable house in the suburbs. He says the only thing that matters to them is having the name "Paris" at the end of their postal address, which is ridiculous. Living in the suburbs, he can access all the amenities of central Paris by car (like opera, concerts, etc), without having to ruin himself and live in a small cramped apartment.
I don't like to drive nor do I need, specially in big dense cities like São Paulo or Paris. And you can always rent one if you feel like to make a roadtrip.

About big houses, well, it would be more expensive to pay someone to keep it in order. I don't need much space specially as I basically just sleep in my apartment.
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Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 11:55 PM
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Where is the EuroDisney EPT ???
Disneyland Paris (the name EuroDisney was abandoned in... 1994 ) was never supposed to join the Greater Paris Metropolis. It was decided in 2013 that the Greater Paris Metropolis would be limited to the 1st ring of suburbs (with some exceptions). I think this is an error, but that's the decision they took back then. Many people now criticize it, and the Greater Paris Metropolis may in the future be enlarged to cover the entire suburbs, so then Disneyland Paris would enter the Greater Paris Metropolis. We'll see!

In any case, there will never be a "Disneyland Paris" EPT. The territory inside which Disneyland Paris is located is called "Val d'Europe". So at most there'll be a "Val d'Europe" EPT someday. For now, there is only a CA of Val d'Europe (CAs have roughly the same powers as EPTs, except they can levy their own taxes, which the EPTs cannot, since taxes will be levied by the Metropolis and money then redistributed to the EPTs). The CA of Val d'Europe will, for now, remain outside of the Metropolis, like all other CAs in the 2nd and 3rd ring of suburbs surrounding Paris.
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