The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by s211

There's a T&T right across the street. There was a Japanese-themed food store in the mall at one time, but I'm not sure if it's there anymore.

And maybe you should do a bit more research before uttering a blanket "that's what Vancouver calls a mall?". There's a huge back-story to that project. Has it failed completely? Pretty much, but how that equates to "that's what Vancouver calls a mall?" just tells me a little edumication might go a long way for you.

Originally Posted by Pinion

Difficult to believe someone could live in Vancouver and never know about Tinseltown/International Village. It reminds me of the girl I briefly dated from south Surrey who didn't know where Lions Gate Bridge was.

We were talking about downtown Van malls, of which there seems to be only two. I know there are more outside of downtown but that's another conversation. Btw while I live in the region, I live in Burnaby - an area that has actual malls. Why should I know everything about a small Van mall when Metrotown is closer? You know, the one that has T&T and Superstore, and a PriceSmart across the laneway. I can get pretty much everything I need locally, unlike what Vin was saying earlier about downtown Van.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Downtown Van doesn't have a whole lot of space to work with. Plus isn't that where the luxury retail is going? Are you trying to say the rest of the region is being more practical than CoV?

Haha, I did mention mid-range stores, didn't I? Don't think I have the habit of visiting those high-end stores all the time, 'cept for the boxing week sale period. Yes the rest of the region is certainly more level-headed than CoV.

And talking about lack of space, that's a complete myth and you should know better. It's just the direction the city is taking which does not encourage multi-storey podiums for better mixed-use developments.

Originally Posted by retro_orange

I think you are better off trying to gain support for a complete renovation of International Village mall.

The tiny William Farrell building just sold for 107.5 million dollars, you would easily be spending upwards of half a billion dollars just to acquire the land to build it downtown.

Completely unrealistic.

The only reason PC mall and International Village are where they are now is because the land was cheap at the time of construction.

The Plaza of Nations or Holborn's Bay Parkade lots would be ideal for a multi-storey shopping podium and mixed-use development. Pluck a couple of tall towers on top of those podiums and Wala, Vin is one happy dude. However, so many factors come into play to discourage developers from building projects such as those, namely, City of Vancouver!

Originally Posted by Sheba

I just looked it on Google maps and checked out the mall directory - that's what Vancouver calls a mall?!? There are a bunch of small restaurants to grab something to eat but where's a grocery store? That's sad.

If you live out in the burbs, you REALLY have no reason to go there. Why go to a place for sub-par services and surroundings?

[jlousa]

What city policy is stopping developers from building mutli-story shopping podiums now? In fact the city encourages commercial space if anything. The only policy stopping your mall from being built is economic policy as the developers want to make money not fulfill wishful dreams.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jlousa

What city policy is stopping developers from building mutli-story shopping podiums now? In fact the city encourages commercial space if anything. The only policy stopping your mall from being built is economic policy as the developers want to make money not fulfill wishful dreams.

For one,
1. viewcones: If you have a big podium for a shopping mall, the tower heights would have to be reduced drastically. Developers would rather introduce more floor areas to residential than commercial in that case. If they allow towers to go taller, things would be different, as in the case of Station Square, Brentwood mall, Lougheed Town Centre, etc.

2. Shadowing: Large commercial podiums block out sunlight on streets: a no-no in Vancouver.

3. Zoning restrictions: self-explanatory. The inflexibility of City staff to review projects on a case-by-case basis has made developers play safe when it comes to the types of projects they propose, ie. the safe boring kinds. Long drawn-out infightining between the City, developer and NIMBYs is nothing new in this city, especially when it comes to projects that veer away, even a tiny bit, from what the City is expecting.

I can go on and on, sir, but then again this is a retail thread.

[officedweller]

The City of Vancouver did - in the 1990s oppose 1 (or 2) downtown mall projects:

1) Trilea had assembled the 1.5 blocks north of the Hudson's Bay (to Pender) for another downtown mall to be anchored by Woodwards (the only holdout was the former CIBC Building at Granville & Dunsmuir). The City refused the application (preferring streetfront retail instead) and the parcels were sold off piecemeal.

2) The Taubmann Group proposed a downtown mall on the current Spectrum/Costco site. I can't recall, but that either died for being too far from the core or because the City did not approve.

WRT shopping malls under office buildings, Vancouver has lots of them. Over the years their focus has changed from "high street shops" to food and service oriented retails due to market forces:

- Bentall Centre
- Vancouver Centre
- Royal Centre
- Harbour Centre
- Sinclair Centre
- Waterfront Centre

There's no reason to think that the trend won't continue for "large scale" office complexes.
I would consider Telus Garden an anomaly because of the chopped up nature of its site.
It's unfortunate that the Post office renovation won't have an interior atrium mall.

Holborn's Bay Parkade site is probably the only probable candidate for a significant interior retail mall because there aren't many large development sites in downtown Vancouver and most new office towers are standalone rather than part of a complex.

[SpongeG]

Of all the spaces as is I think Royal Centre could be expanded and reworked into a better space if the demand was there. Even sinclair centre could be reworked to house more.

This was a rendering for what they could do with royal centre.



Move the food court and use that space for something bigger etc.

[phesto]

^The tenant demand just isn't there to justify a complete redo of the retail at Royal Centre. They've tried with a couple of different concept designs over the past 5 years and haven't been able to attract tenants. I still think a large casual dining restaurant could work on the Georgia frontage but the area is already well-served.

[idunno]

Word along the grapevine is that Royal Centre had recently explored some expansion/redesign, but did not move forward with due to the apparent high costs.

It's a shame, because Royal Centre has a lot of potential, with its direct Skytrain connection, large footprint, and wide Georgia St. frontage.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The City of Vancouver did - in the 1990s oppose 1 (or 2) downtown mall projects:

1) Trilea had assembled the 1.5 blocks north of the Hudson's Bay (to Pender) for another downtown mall to be anchored by Woodwards (the only holdout was the former CIBC Building at Granville & Dunsmuir). The City refused the application (preferring streetfront retail instead) and the parcels were sold off piecemeal.

2) The Taubmann Group proposed a downtown mall on the current Spectrum/Costco site. I can't recall, but that either died for being too far from the core or because the City did not approve.

WRT shopping malls under office buildings, Vancouver has lots of them. Over the years their focus has changed from "high street shops" to food and service oriented retails due to market forces:

- Bentall Centre
- Vancouver Centre
- Royal Centre
- Harbour Centre
- Sinclair Centre
- Waterfront Centre

There's no reason to think that the trend won't continue for "large scale" office complexes.
I would consider Telus Garden an anomaly because of the chopped up nature of its site.
It's unfortunate that the Post office renovation won't have an interior atrium mall.

Holborn's Bay Parkade site is probably the only probable candidate for a significant interior retail mall because there aren't many large development sites in downtown Vancouver and most new office towers are standalone rather than part of a complex.

Thank you!

You can tell Vancouver was a lot more progressive back in the 70s and 80s. At least they proposed and built those small office malls that benefit workers so much today.

However, the small service "malls" mainly for office workers are just that: catering for office workers, perfect at a time when there were definitely a lot more working people than residents living downtown. These are not part of the kind of retail that will benefit local residents, tourists and other kinds of shoppers/users going for consumer items such as household goods and grocery. Muji, Uniqlo, Simons etc. will never open in those kinds of "malls". First of all, they are too small, and because of the sheer number of lunch-serving type food/beverage and other office support service shops, do not justify opening late for the non-office shoppers and local residents.

Downtown likes to pride itself in bringing in lots of residents compared to other North American cities, but we have to keep pace with the other types of services.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by idunno

Word along the grapevine is that Royal Centre had recently explored some expansion/redesign, but did not move forward with due to the apparent high costs.

It's a shame, because Royal Centre has a lot of potential, with its direct Skytrain connection, large footprint, and wide Georgia St. frontage.

Yeah, Royal Centre certainly has potential, and could serve as an expansion to the Robson/Alberni shopping corridor. For instance, it could become the mid-range food and beverage centre for the shoppers at the Robson area. All it needs is to have better access from the ground level, modernized food stalls/restaurants and longer opening hours. Short hours make sure businesses there do not have a chance to meet their full potentials in profitability.

[SpongeG]

It would be a great location if Eataly wanted to open in Vancouver...

[s211]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Of all the spaces as is I think Royal Centre could be expanded and reworked into a better space if the demand was there. Even sinclair centre could be reworked to house more.

This was a rendering for what they could do with royal centre.



Move the food court and use that space for something bigger etc.

What you are illustrating here is a proposed relocation of RBC off the Burrard & Georigia intersection and westward mid-block adjacent to the tower podium.

[jollyburger]

No one shopping on Alberni is going to eat a food court and there is no shortage of food options on Robson that is close or closer than Royal Centre.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The City of Vancouver did - in the 1990s oppose 1 (or 2) downtown mall projects:

1) Trilea had assembled the 1.5 blocks north of the Hudson's Bay (to Pender) for another downtown mall to be anchored by Woodwards (the only holdout was the former CIBC Building at Granville & Dunsmuir). The City refused the application (preferring streetfront retail instead) and the parcels were sold off piecemeal.

2) The Taubmann Group proposed a downtown mall on the current Spectrum/Costco site. I can't recall, but that either died for being too far from the core or because the City did not approve.

WRT shopping malls under office buildings, Vancouver has lots of them. Over the years their focus has changed from "high street shops" to food and service oriented retails due to market forces:

- Bentall Centre
- Vancouver Centre
- Royal Centre
- Harbour Centre
- Sinclair Centre
- Waterfront Centre

There's no reason to think that the trend won't continue for "large scale" office complexes.
I would consider Telus Garden an anomaly because of the chopped up nature of its site.
It's unfortunate that the Post office renovation won't have an interior atrium mall.

Holborn's Bay Parkade site is probably the only probable candidate for a significant interior retail mall because there aren't many large development sites in downtown Vancouver and most new office towers are standalone rather than part of a complex.

Details on the Taubman development proposal:

The Taubman Company (Taubman) and the City of Vancouver (City) wish to determine if an amount and type of retail development is appropriate as a component of a proposed development, located in the vicinity of Georgia, Dunsmuir and Beatty Streets. Taubman wishes to develop the site in conformity with the City's policies for the downtown area. Initial thoughts are that the development will include something in the order of 1 million sq. ft. of retail space. About 50% of this could consist of department stores and the remaining 50% of externally and internally connecting retail and service uses. It is also intended that theatres, other entertainment uses, a hotel, residential and office uses could also be part of the development.

http://council.vancouver.ca/previous...981203/pe3.htm

[memememe76]

Royal Centre already has three Tim Hortons, a Macdonald's, a Starbucks, a Joey's, and a fancy Chinese restaurant. I am partial to their Second Cup.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Vin

The Plaza of Nations or Holborn's Bay Parkade lots would be ideal for a multi-storey shopping podium and mixed-use development. Pluck a couple of tall towers on top of those podiums and Wala, Vin is one happy dude. However, so many factors come into play to discourage developers from building projects such as those, namely, City of Vancouver!


If you live out in the burbs, you REALLY have no reason to go there. Why go to a place for sub-par services and surroundings?

The Bay Parkade site would be a great place to see a retail podium with a tower above - but will it happen?

Then there’s the downtown Vancouver city block, bounded by Seymour, West Georgia, Dunsmuir and Richards streets, in which Holborn owns most of the land, including the Bay parkade.

“We don’t own all of the lots because the owners are not willing to sell,” he said. “We’re working on a concept design for that site now. It will be mixed use: retail, office and hotel as well as residential. We’ll probably have to do some rental housing. We’ll see.”

Rezoning would be needed for that site. Tiah said that he should be ready to submit a rezoning proposal for it by the end of 2017.

Holborn's Big Plans

Does the downtown of everywhere outside of CoV still count as the burbs? A lot of areas are building up and becoming quite urban.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by memememe76

Royal Centre already has three Tim Hortons, a Macdonald's, a Starbucks, a Joey's, and a fancy Chinese restaurant. I am partial to their Second Cup.

Joey's is in Bentall Center.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

It would be a great location if Eataly wanted to open in Vancouver...

Please please please let loblaws actually consider opening a location in Vancouver. I just worry our regulatory environment would take away from the experience of this store that you find in europe. Have visited several locations in italy and the location in munich and they are amazing.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

No one shopping on Alberni is going to eat a food court and there is no shortage of food options on Robson that is close or closer than Royal Centre.

I guess only the "rich and famous" shop there, and ONLY on Alberni Street huh? Robson must be a deserted wasteland I reckon. Funny you think food options in that area is good enough, but that's only your level of preference for liking only McDonald's and Timmy's. For everyone else, nobody's complaining when there are way more options.

Originally Posted by theKB

Please please please let loblaws actually consider opening a location in Vancouver. I just worry our regulatory environment would take away from the experience of this store that you find in europe. Have visited several locations in italy and the location in munich and they are amazing.

That would be sweet. Their stores are huge, and I can see it opening in the Plaza of Nations neighbourhood if CoV ever allows a huge food centre/market such as Eataly to be located there.

[jollyburger]

There are lots of food options near there and if there was more demand people would actually open restaurants to serve the market.