Tucson Development Thread

[southtucsonboy77]

DOWNTOWN TUCSON DEVELOPMENT REPORT Summer 2017

Enjoy. Nothing really new.

[southtucsonboy77]

An opening...

The Drunken Chicken opens its doors on Fourth Avenue

...and a closing.

Fourth Ave fry stop shutters doors

[Ted Lyons]

There should be an announcement today that a Chinese company developing driverless trucks is moving here.

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/...trucks-tucson/

There's also a blurb in today's Tucson Lease Report.

https://realestatedaily-news.com/tuc...ug-14-18-2017/

[Ted Lyons]

Limited details but Rio Nuevo approved a deal with HSL to renovate Hotel Arizona. I believe City approval of a GPLET will be necessary as well.

http://tucson.com/business/downtown-...51b333666.html

EDIT: More details today - http://tucson.com/business/downtown-...21cc46917.html

[southtucsonboy77]

Originally Posted by Ted Lyons

Limited details but Rio Nuevo approved a deal with HSL to renovate Hotel Arizona. I believe City approval of a GPLET will be necessary as well.

http://tucson.com/business/downtown-...51b333666.html

EDIT: More details today - http://tucson.com/business/downtown-...21cc46917.html

I'm glad they are finally doing this. Yet, I wish they got a little more creative and included plans to redevelop the corner parking structure, perhaps mixed-use that maintains the parking, but adds some offices, a "2nd tower" with additional rooms, or some apartments. That corner has the streetcar stop and is the first intersection you hit when you enter downtown. That's a prime spot.

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by southtucsonboy77

I'm glad they are finally doing this. Yet, I wish they got a little more creative and included plans to redevelop the corner parking structure, perhaps mixed-use that maintains the parking, but adds some offices, a "2nd tower" with additional rooms, or some apartments. That corner has the streetcar stop and is the first intersection you hit when you enter downtown. That's a prime spot.

I think we have to take things one step at a time with HSL. After all, how's the La Placita demolition been going?

[cdsuofa]

Originally Posted by Ted Lyons

I think we have to take things one step at a time with HSL. After all, how's the La Placita demolition been going?

I can think of so many great things HSL could do with all of that property they own. After all, they basically own a whole corner of downtown. Linking it all together into a large mixed use complex would be awesome. But I think Ted said it best lol. Hard to expect much from HSL given Humberto's past. I personally don't think they have any intention of building those apartments. If they do, it will be a long time and a lot of Rio Nuevo money from now.

[catch_22]

From the front it looks like nothing is going on, but in the back they've been doing demolition work for the last several weeks. I've heard unconfirmed reports of asbestos removal.
Views from the courtyard of Tucson Music Hall:

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by catch_22

From the front it looks like nothing is going on, but in the back they've been doing demolition work for the last several weeks. I've heard unconfirmed reports of asbestos removal.
Views from the courtyard of Tucson Music Hall:

Thanks for the pics. Asbestos remediation can take a long time, so that's probably a valid reason for the delay.

[andrewsaturn]

Bourn Companies shared a video for the proposed Urban flats in downtown. its a cool concept and I will take it but like a lot of us, wish it had some height.

https://m.facebook.com/BournCompanies/

[southtucsonboy77]

Originally Posted by andrewsaturn

Bourn Companies shared a video for the proposed Urban flats in downtown. its a cool concept and I will take it but like a lot of us, wish it had some height.

https://m.facebook.com/BournCompanies/

Its a nice product, just like HSL's "luxury" apartments, but not AT THAT location. I love QuickTrips, but they don't belong in the heart of downtown. The video is cool, I liked it, but it looks odd in that spot.

[Ted Lyons]

Construction fencing is up at The Mark site.

[kmiller5]

Originally Posted by andrewsaturn

Bourn Companies shared a video for the proposed Urban flats in downtown. its a cool concept and I will take it but like a lot of us, wish it had some height.

https://m.facebook.com/BournCompanies/

I didn't realize Bourne was a part of this project. Are they partnering with Aerie?

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by kmiller5

I didn't realize Bourne was a part of this project. Are they partnering with Aerie?

No they are not haha. I think whoever manages their facebook page is a promoter of downtown development and shares a bunch of tucson development news in general.

[Eapiwo]

I hope I'm not off topic but I'd like to add to the discussion that Amazon is looking for a second city to headquarter in "HQ2" to place 50,000 employees in and their requirements are that they would like to be in a city with a population of 1,000,000+, a large airport, easy access to mass transit, and a good work/life balance. Technically Tucson meets those requirements, barely. For each of the three categories Tucson only barely inches itself into but those are just the requirements unique to this search as I would imagine they'd still want a highly educated workforce which Tuctown lacks. However I think the spirit of the city here is fairly strong akin to that of Atlanta and Los Angeles, we're just much much smaller. I'm not sure how convinced Tucson's leadership is that it can ever win Amazon but it's a fun idea to play with.


If a company were to bring in 50,000 jobs to our city I speculate that -

1. We'd be approaching 1.3 million people (at the least) residing in Pima County by the 2030 Census
2. We'll start to see an increase in wealth and will rank lower on poorest cities list
3. Our status as a city would dramatically change, likely in a similar way to Austin.
4. Downtown would most definitely see its new tallest towers for the offices alone, as some high rise apartments and hotels would be sure to follow. Likely to rival Phoenix's skyline
5. Developing mass transit across the metro would be much more viable
6. Sports teams would come and stay
7. ADOT still will not have ever considered widening I-10 East of Kino
8. Tucson would attract other businesses, high paying jobs
9. Incorporation of Vail or other areas? Still seems unlikely however expansion of existing areas seems probable.

While it sure isn't up to the same standards of other cities, Amazon would single handedly brought Tucson up to the ranks of the rest of America's happening cities if they relocated here, which would be a pretty cool sight. I don't think many other small to mid sized American cities would be able to transform to hold a 50,000 new employees but Tucson has prepared for it with the revitalization of downtown and with the exception of I-10, could easily grow by another large sum of people.



https://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon...t-data-decide/

[Eapiwo]

Originally Posted by Eapiwo

I hope I'm not off topic but I'd like to add to the discussion that Amazon is looking for a second city to headquarter in "HQ2" to place 50,000 employees in and their requirements are that they would like to be in a city with a population of 1,000,000+, a large airport, easy access to mass transit, and a good work/life balance. Technically Tucson meets those requirements, barely. For each of the three categories Tucson only barely inches itself into but those are just the requirements unique to this search as I would imagine they'd still want a highly educated workforce which Tuctown lacks. However I think the spirit of the city here is fairly strong akin to that of Atlanta and Los Angeles, we're just much much smaller. I'm not sure how convinced Tucson's leadership is that it can ever win Amazon but it's a fun idea to play with.


If a company were to bring in 50,000 jobs to our city I speculate that -

1. We'd be approaching 1.3 million people (at the least) residing in Pima County by the 2030 Census
2. We'll start to see an increase in wealth and will rank lower on poorest cities list
3. Our status as a city would dramatically change, likely in a similar way to Austin.
4. Downtown would most definitely see its new tallest towers for the offices alone, as some high rise apartments and hotels would be sure to follow. Likely to rival Phoenix's skyline
5. Developing mass transit across the metro would be much more viable
6. Sports teams would come and stay
7. ADOT still will not have ever considered widening I-10 East of Kino
8. Tucson would attract other businesses, high paying jobs
9. Incorporation of Vail or other areas? Still seems unlikely however expansion of existing areas seems probable.

While it sure isn't up to the same standards of other cities, Amazon would single handedly brought Tucson up to the ranks of the rest of America's happening cities if they relocated here, which would be a pretty cool sight. I don't think many other small to mid sized American cities would be able to transform to hold a 50,000 new employees but Tucson has prepared for it with the revitalization of downtown and with the exception of I-10, could easily grow by another large sum of people.




https://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon...t-data-decide/

Edit- I would also like to think that our lack of hurricanes and other disasters here might make us at least a least bit more desirable. Right? Sorry for the double post. Meant to edit, not quote but now I cant delete it

[wildcatmd]

Originally Posted by Eapiwo

I hope I'm not off topic but I'd like to add to the discussion that Amazon is looking for a second city to headquarter in "HQ2" to place 50,000 employees in and their requirements are that they would like to be in a city with a population of 1,000,000+, a large airport, easy access to mass transit, and a good work/life balance. Technically Tucson meets those requirements, barely. For each of the three categories Tucson only barely inches itself into but those are just the requirements unique to this search as I would imagine they'd still want a highly educated workforce which Tuctown lacks. However I think the spirit of the city here is fairly strong akin to that of Atlanta and Los Angeles, we're just much much smaller. I'm not sure how convinced Tucson's leadership is that it can ever win Amazon but it's a fun idea to play with.


If a company were to bring in 50,000 jobs to our city I speculate that -

1. We'd be approaching 1.3 million people (at the least) residing in Pima County by the 2030 Census
2. We'll start to see an increase in wealth and will rank lower on poorest cities list
3. Our status as a city would dramatically change, likely in a similar way to Austin.
4. Downtown would most definitely see its new tallest towers for the offices alone, as some high rise apartments and hotels would be sure to follow. Likely to rival Phoenix's skyline
5. Developing mass transit across the metro would be much more viable
6. Sports teams would come and stay
7. ADOT still will not have ever considered widening I-10 East of Kino
8. Tucson would attract other businesses, high paying jobs
9. Incorporation of Vail or other areas? Still seems unlikely however expansion of existing areas seems probable.

While it sure isn't up to the same standards of other cities, Amazon would single handedly brought Tucson up to the ranks of the rest of America's happening cities if they relocated here, which would be a pretty cool sight. I don't think many other small to mid sized American cities would be able to transform to hold a 50,000 new employees but Tucson has prepared for it with the revitalization of downtown and with the exception of I-10, could easily grow by another large sum of people.



https://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon...t-data-decide/

The biggest advantage that Tucson has is that we have a cheap cost of living and a developing work/life culture. I think Amazon will choose a cheaper city given the lashing out they've received from the Seattle Community regarding gentrification. Despite this, I think we would still be behind many others cities including Detroit, Baltimore or even Phoenix.

Besides continuing focus on downtown revitalization, I think the best thing that can be done is continue to attract smaller headquarters (ala Caterpillar) that can directly draw from and feedback into U of A programs. I think that will create the kind of presence that attracts big headquarters in the same vein that Stanford, UT Austin and University of Washington are intimately connected to the business communities of San Jose, Austin and Seattle respectively,

U of A produces so much STEM talent that is exported around country. Its a shame that more isn't done to bring those companies to Tucson instead of sending our professionals to them.

[Patrick S]

Originally Posted by Eapiwo

I hope I'm not off topic but I'd like to add to the discussion that Amazon is looking for a second city to headquarter in "HQ2" to place 50,000 employees in and their requirements are that they would like to be in a city with a population of 1,000,000+, a large airport, easy access to mass transit, and a good work/life balance. Technically Tucson meets those requirements, barely. For each of the three categories Tucson only barely inches itself into but those are just the requirements unique to this search as I would imagine they'd still want a highly educated workforce which Tuctown lacks. However I think the spirit of the city here is fairly strong akin to that of Atlanta and Los Angeles, we're just much much smaller. I'm not sure how convinced Tucson's leadership is that it can ever win Amazon but it's a fun idea to play with.


If a company were to bring in 50,000 jobs to our city I speculate that -

1. We'd be approaching 1.3 million people (at the least) residing in Pima County by the 2030 Census
2. We'll start to see an increase in wealth and will rank lower on poorest cities list
3. Our status as a city would dramatically change, likely in a similar way to Austin.
4. Downtown would most definitely see its new tallest towers for the offices alone, as some high rise apartments and hotels would be sure to follow. Likely to rival Phoenix's skyline
5. Developing mass transit across the metro would be much more viable
6. Sports teams would come and stay
7. ADOT still will not have ever considered widening I-10 East of Kino
8. Tucson would attract other businesses, high paying jobs
9. Incorporation of Vail or other areas? Still seems unlikely however expansion of existing areas seems probable.

While it sure isn't up to the same standards of other cities, Amazon would single handedly brought Tucson up to the ranks of the rest of America's happening cities if they relocated here, which would be a pretty cool sight. I don't think many other small to mid sized American cities would be able to transform to hold a 50,000 new employees but Tucson has prepared for it with the revitalization of downtown and with the exception of I-10, could easily grow by another large sum of people.



https://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon...t-data-decide/

This article, although it is kinda for fun more than anything, knocks Tucson out in their first round: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...arters-be.html. One of the criteria is "strong job growth", the NY Times article states, "Here we’ve cut the contenders by half, keeping those metropolitan areas that have had the best job growth over the last decade, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. Metro areas that have actually lost jobs (Tucson [emphasis added by me] ; Birmingham, Ala.) and those that have grown more sluggishly are out of the running."

I'll admit when I initially heard about Amazon wanting a new, second, HQ city, I was excited. But I don't see it happening here. Our "mass-transit" is paltry compared to what other cities can offer - and they don't even have dedicated lanes here.

As for this causing the tallest building in Tucson, that may be, but I doubt it would be downtown. According to the NY Times article, "It’s hard to imagine where the Boston region would find the room for a company that will ultimately want up to eight million square feet of office space (the Pentagon, for comparison, has 6.6 million)." - 8 Million square feet of office space. There is no way they could find that space, even with a tall building, in downtown Tucson. The Sears Tower (Willis Tower) in Chicago has 4.56 million square feet. That would be one tall tower, especially compared to the other buildings in Tucson.

As for your observation about I-10 needing to be widened, east of Kino, you are right on that it needs to be widened, but this is actually on AzDOT's radar (https://www.azdot.gov/planning/trans...study/overview). I've seen a study report - which I am struggling to find right now, that indicates the 2 preferred alternatives could each result in 4-6 lanes, each way, from Alvernon to Kolb.

[combusean]

^ Nobody would put 8 million square feet in one building. That space could however easily be built with a dozen or so 400 - 500' office buildings, however, which are vastly more economical and space efficient.

[Patrick S]

Originally Posted by combusean

^ Nobody would put 8 million square feet in one building. That space could however easily be built with a dozen or so 400 - 500' office buildings, however, which are vastly more economical and space efficient.

Exactly one of the points I'm making. Downtown would not be able to absorb that much construction. There is simply not enough space.