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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2017, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Why do you say that? If anything the Chinese American population is growing at a faster rate than the Chinese Canadian population (27% between 2010 census and 2016 ACS in US, 19% between 2011 NHS and 2016 census in Canada).
The Chinese American population might be growing faster but it's still spread out more between cities than its Canadian counterpart, so even though Canada's immigration destinations are diversifying, Toronto and Vancouver are still likely to receive a larger relative share.

Additionally, it seems to be the case that the children of immigrants in Canadian cities are more likely to live in their parents' city (or close by), while the children of immigrants to the US probably leave their parents' immigration gateway and disperse more.

That's why I'm thinking the largest Canadian city, Toronto's CMA will be able to catch up to NYC's metro.
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2017, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
The US also counts people with roots in the Middle East and North Africa as "white." Also many filling out "Latin American" in the Canadian census would likely be classified as white and Hispanic in the US (since race and Hispanic origin are separate questions).
It seems there's a similar classification scheme according to Stats Canada:

"In contrast, in accordance with employment equity definitions, persons who reported 'Latin American' and 'White,' 'Arab' and 'White,' or 'West Asian' and 'White' have been excluded from the visible minority population. Likewise, persons who reported 'Latin American,' 'Arab' or 'West Asian' and who provided a European write-in response such as 'French' have been excluded from the visible minority population as well. These persons are included in the 'Not a visible minority' category. However, persons who reported 'Latin American,' 'Arab' or 'West Asian' and a non-European write-in response are included in the visible minority population. For example, respondents who checked 'Latin American' and wrote in 'Peruvian' are included in the 'Latin American' count. Respondents who reported 'Arab' and wrote in 'Lebanese' are included in the 'Arab' count. Respondents who reported 'West Asian' and wrote in 'Afghan' are included in the 'West Asian' count."

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...016006-eng.cfm

So, overall then, if you look at white (regardless of Hispanic or not) Americans, and white Canadians, both numbers as a share of the population are in the low 70s %.

I think it's fair to say that Canada and the US now have currently roughly equivalent racial diversity (just that in Canada's case, the non-whites are proportionally more Asian and aboriginal, and in the American case, the non-whites are mostly black, and non-white Hispanics).

Unlike for most of the two countries' histories, where it could be said that the US was more racially diverse (about 10-20% non-European descent, mostly African American), and Canada had typically less than 10%, and usually less than 5% non-European descent), now the two countries have converged in the 21st century.
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2017, 2:25 AM
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About half of Hispanics in the US put down "white" - but this is between a choice between white, black, Native American or "other."

Few Hispanics are accepted as white in the US. Certainly the largest group by far - Mexicans - are not. Cubans are more accepted as such but there share of the Hispanic population is very small.
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2017, 6:24 AM
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Agincourt may be predominantly Chinese but this community is far from homogeneous in terms of class, dialect and geographic origin:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...tle-china.html
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  #25  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2017, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Why do you say that? If anything the Chinese American population is growing at a faster rate than the Chinese Canadian population (27% between 2010 census and 2016 ACS in US, 19% between 2011 NHS and 2016 census in Canada).
Is the greater US growth rate from natural increase or immigration?

I wonder if Chinese immigration to North America is currently already near or past its peak. China's GDP per capita is already close to that of Mexico's or Russia's, and it seems like many countries in this income range have already peaked in terms of immigration to the US.

Not sure if Canada and the US are necessarily in lockstep with immigration trends, but it seems more true for economic migrants than say refugees (where the trends between which countries the two North American nations take from varies a lot more).
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  #26  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2017, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
About half of Hispanics in the US put down "white" - but this is between a choice between white, black, Native American or "other."

Few Hispanics are accepted as white in the US. Certainly the largest group by far - Mexicans - are not. Cubans are more accepted as such but there share of the Hispanic population is very small.
Mexicans and Hispanics in general vary quite a lot in their ancestry, with a range of both Spanish and non-Spanish indigenous ancestry, plus other ancestries, but I'm not sure if the majority of Mexicans with both native and European ancestry would necessarily mark both?
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  #27  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2017, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
In my postal code, it is 8.5% immigrant. 15.5% are First Generation, and another 5.1% are Second Generation.
Aren't immigrants, as defined, only the first generation in Canada?
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  #28  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2017, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Mexicans and Hispanics in general vary quite a lot in their ancestry, with a range of both Spanish and non-Spanish indigenous ancestry, plus other ancestries, but I'm not sure if the majority of Mexicans with both native and European ancestry would necessarily mark both?
Sorry, I think you're really trying to stretch your case for Canada being "just as nonwhite as the US."
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  #29  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2017, 12:27 AM
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Manitoba may be majority-nonwhite before BC:

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...454185793.html
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  #30  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2017, 6:04 PM
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The numbers reporting Jewish ethnicity declined by about half

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jewi...bers-1.4381585

(Obviously the Jewish population didn't decline by half - it's just that a lack of a religion question in the "6" years and the droppin of Jewish out of the top 20 responses means that few reported "Jewish" won't be an example listed as an ethnic origin on the census form.
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  #31  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2017, 8:04 PM
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  #32  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2017, 9:49 PM
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CMA - % Visible Minority - % Aboriginal - % Non-White
Toronto - 51.4% - 0.1% - 51.5%
Vancouver - 48.9% - 2.5% - 51.4%
Winnipeg - 25.7% - 12.2% - 37.9%
Calgary - 33.7% - 3% - 36.7%
Edmonton - 28.1% - 5.9% - 34%
Ottawa - 21.6% + 3% - 24.6%
Montreal - 22.6% - 0.1% - 22.7%
Quebec City - 4.9% + 0.1% - 5%

CMA - % Non-White
Toronto - 51.5%
Vancouver - 51.4%
Winnipeg - 37.9%
Calgary - 36.7%
Edmonton - 34%
Ottawa - 24.6%
Montreal - 22.7%
Quebec City - 5%

Last edited by saffronleaf; Nov 8, 2017 at 7:19 AM. Reason: Fixed QCity numbers
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  #33  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2017, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Aren't immigrants, as defined, only the first generation in Canada?
I assume, but am not sure, that Immigrant refers to someone born in another country who now lives here, First Generation is the child of such an immigrant born here and living here, and Second Generation is a child of that First Generation person.

So those stats for my postal code I interpret as:

8.5% immigrant - born in another country, but living right here.
15.5% are First Generation - the child of at least one immigrant.
5.1% are Second Generation - people who are very conscious of the fact one or more grandparents came here from another country; I would expect them to be visible minorities or separatists being cheeky. IE I could say I'm a second generation Canadian, as my parents were born in Canada, but 3/4 grandparents (and most of my aunts/uncles) were born in an independent Newfoundland.
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  #34  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2017, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
CMA - % Visible Minority - % Aboriginal - % Non-White
Toronto - 51.4% - 0.1% - 51.5%
Vancouver - 48.9% - 2.5% - 51.4%
Winnipeg - 25.7% - 12.2% - 37.9%
Calgary - 33.7% - 3% - 36.7%
Edmonton - 28.1% - 5.9% - 34%
Ottawa - 21.6% + 3% - 24.6%
Montreal - 22.6% - 0.1% - 22.7%
Quebec City - 4.9% + 0% - 4.9%

CMA - % Non-White
Toronto - 51.5%
Vancouver - 51.4%
Winnipeg - 37.9%
Calgary - 36.7%
Edmonton - 34%
Ottawa - 24.6%
Montreal - 22.7%
Quebec City - 4.9%
could you give the % for 2011 ? tks
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  #35  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2017, 2:29 AM
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Looks like the white population will remain the biggest ethnic block in Canada for decades, at the minimum.
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  #36  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2017, 6:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
I assume, but am not sure, that Immigrant refers to someone born in another country who now lives here, First Generation is the child of such an immigrant born here and living here, and Second Generation is a child of that First Generation person.

So those stats for my postal code I interpret as:

8.5% immigrant - born in another country, but living right here.
15.5% are First Generation - the child of at least one immigrant.
5.1% are Second Generation - people who are very conscious of the fact one or more grandparents came here from another country; I would expect them to be visible minorities or separatists being cheeky. IE I could say I'm a second generation Canadian, as my parents were born in Canada, but 3/4 grandparents (and most of my aunts/uncles) were born in an independent Newfoundland.
I gather that this means that of the 8.5% (total immigrants), 15.5%, and 5.1% are first and second generation respectively, otherwise the numbers could be added up for a total of 29.1 %, which seems high for that area (or maybe it isn't?). However, as noted above, first and second generations would not be considered immigrants, so either way the numbers seem confusing. And, yes, some NL'ers do speak of being first or second generation Canadian (I would be first gen).
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  #37  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2017, 7:01 AM
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Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal View Post
could you give the % for 2011 ? tks
2011:
CMA - % Visible Minority - % Aboriginal - % Non-White
Toronto - 47% - 0.1% - 47.1%
Vancouver - 45.2% - 2.3% - 47.5%
Winnipeg - 19.7% - 11% - 30.7%
Calgary - 28.1% - 2.8% - 30.9%
Edmonton - 22.4% - 5.4% - 27.8%
Ottawa - 19.2% - 2.5% - 21.7%
Montreal - 20.3% - 0.1% - 20.4%
Quebec City - Not sure (~3% in 2006) - 0.1% - More than 3.1%

CMA - % Non-White 2016 - % Non-White 2011 - Increase
Toronto - 51.5% - 47.1% - 4.4%
Vancouver - 51.4% - 47.5% - 3.9%
Winnipeg - 37.9% - 30.7% - 7.2%
Calgary - 36.7% - 30.9% - 5.8%
Edmonton - 34% - 27.8% - 6.2%
Ottawa - 24.6% - 21.7% - 2.9%
Montreal - 22.7% - 20.4% - 2.3%
Quebec City - 5% [added 0.1% Aboriginal population from new data] - Unsure about 2011 numbers, appears to be more than 3.1% - less than 1.9% increase


Sorry for messing up the Quebec City numbers a bit. The 2016 total is 5% while I'm not sure about the 2011 numbers. It's more than 3.1% though, but presumably less than 5%.
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  #38  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2017, 7:18 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Looks like the white population will remain the biggest ethnic block in Canada for decades, at the minimum.
yea, but worth noting that whites aren't entirely homogeneous either. and i'm not just trying to be pedantic, but in some cities, like Montreal, it's probably worth noting the Anglo minority as a separate minority group.

Montreal is a city that feels a lot more multicultural than the visible minority numbers and aboriginal numbers would suggest.
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  #39  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2017, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
yea, but worth noting that whites aren't entirely homogeneous either. and i'm not just trying to be pedantic, but in some cities, like Montreal, it's probably worth noting the Anglo minority as a separate minority group.

Montreal is a city that feels a lot more multicultural than the visible minority numbers and aboriginal numbers would suggest.
It's not pedantic at all and is actually a really good point.

You actually have dual "societal mainstreams" at play in Montreal. The only other large city in Canada that really has this is Ottawa(-Gatineau).

If we're counting "diversity points" (as some people seem to want to do), that most definitely has to count for something.
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  #40  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2017, 4:01 PM
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Isn't that the logic behind the term "visible" minority, as opposed to minorities that are linguistic, religious etc. that are not based on physical appearance (unless they choose to dress differently).

In the US, though, minority without qualifier (as "visible" in the Canadian case) seems to default to mean racial minority, though things like religion, sexual orientation etc. are often included too in discussions of diversity.
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