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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 6:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
"third coast" and "north coast" are not exclusive to cleveland. these branding terms are used throughout the entire great lakes region.

i didn't say they were -- but they are best known there. certainly long before there was thought of it in texas
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 6:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
"third coast" and "north coast" are not exclusive to cleveland. these branding terms are used throughout the entire great lakes region.
ENGLISH - speak ENGLISH.

Texas is on a coast, Chicago and Cleveland are on shores. The words have real defined meanings.
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 6:44 PM
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^ "coast" in this sense is just a colloquialism. If you're on N. Ave Beach in Chicago, you might as well be looking out on an ocean.

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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
i didn't say they were -- but they are best known there. certainly long before there was thought of it in texas
Cleveland is the Mistake on the Lake.

Third coast...depends on where you are. I've heard references to both Great Lakes and Gulf coast in both regions. Though never heard it in reference to Lake Ontario. But then again, NY is "east coast"
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  #24  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 6:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harryc View Post
ENGLISH - speak ENGLISH.

Texas is on a coast, Chicago and Cleveland are on shores. The words have real defined meanings.
i can't hear you.

my ears are still ringing from North Coast Music Festival.
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  #25  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 7:35 PM
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Some coasts are more coastal than others. Facing another continent vs. our own continent for example.

I live near an arm of the Pacific. The Puget Sound is probably too small for its waterfront to be a "coast." But it's a gray area...there's no specific dimension where coastal becomes inland waters.

That said, the Great Lakes do lack free access for ocean-going vessels due to locks as well as size limits. They're not coastal in most senses of the word.
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  #26  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 7:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
That said, the Great Lakes do lack free access for ocean-going vessels due to locks as well as size limits. They're not coastal in most senses of the word.
i don't think that is true but i'll let the great lakes guys at that. i think they call them salties...


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  #27  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 7:38 PM
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^ yes, the st. lawrence seaway & welland canal allow passage for ocean going vessels into the great lakes. however, the now-outdated locks of the system restrict maximum vessel size to only 740' x 80', which is considerably smaller than today's super-size ocean going freighters (Panamax, Neo-Panamax, Suezmax, etc.)

and yes, ocean freighters are referred to as "salties" on the great lakes to distinguish them from lake freighters, which are called "lakers".


Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
They're not coastal in most senses of the word.
true, but that hasn't stopped numerous companies and organizations throughout the great lakes region from adopting the "third coast" and "north coast" monikers.

branding doesn't have to be technically accurate to work.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Dec 5, 2017 at 8:13 PM.
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  #28  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 6:52 PM
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It depends on how America's image in the world plays out.
Many historically immigrant sending nations have substantially
improved their own standard of living. So looking out two decades
or so;

So it might come down to immigrants from the still poor nations
of Latin America choosing whether to come to the U.S. or the
wealthier Latin countries. As China get's wealthier it will create
a huge siphoning off many people from poorer southeast Asian nations.
Though with China being so big, even the boutique immigration numbers
coming out of there will be substantial.

The two places that will still send masses here are India and Africa.
At least until 2100 or so. By then, most menial jobs will be automated.
I doubt emigres from those places will choose to go to China or Mexico.
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  #29  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 8:39 PM
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The "salties" as you call them appear to be specialized. I'm referring to the ships that handle most ocean traffic, which are generally sized for the Panama Canal at the smallest.
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  #30  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 9:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
I'm referring to the ships that handle most ocean traffic, which are generally sized for the Panama Canal at the smallest.
uhhhhh, i explicitly said in my last post that the locks of the st. lawrence seaway & welland canal restrict maximum vessel size to 740' x 80', which is considerably smaller than today's super-size ocean going freighters (Panamax, Neo-Panamax, Suezmax, etc.).

ie. Panamax, Neo-panamax, Suezmax, Chinamax, etc. cargo ships from outside the great lakes cannot access the great lakes.

however, great lakes ports are still visited by hundreds of foreign-flagged ocean-going cargo ships every year. they're just smaller than the super-sized ships of today, and they are typically bulk carriers, not container ships.

they are typically in the 500'- 700' range in terms of length to fit through the seaway locks, as opposed to Panamax ships which are 950' in length

"salties" in the great lakes:


source: http://www.boatnerd.com/


source: http://www.boatnerd.com/


source: http://www.boatnerd.com/








conversely, there are a couple dozen lakers that are too big (>740' in length) to fit through the seaway locks and are thus forever "trapped" in the great lakes.

at 1,000' in length, this laker will never taste salt water:


source: http://www.boatnerd.com/
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  #31  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 3:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
That has nothing to do with "the coasts" but small town v. big city. I came from the east coast and live in Texas. My hometown in Upstate NY (plus I also lived in New England) was very insular where as big Texas cities are very welcoming of immigrants.
Majority of the countries largest cities/metros are along the coast, didn't think I would have to clarify but ok LOL.

But can it truly be big vs small? and not cultural ?, the coasts (nothing to do with how big the cities/counties are) are more culturally diverse than the interiors. Yeah you will find gaps in the coasts where that diversity falls , even I know the severe upper NE isn't as diverse as say a drive south to Boston or NY, but the world is more aware of the coastal regions rather than the interiors.. Nothing wrong with that, but cultural diversity will most likely be found along the coast, making immigrants feel more welcomed there, rather than in the central/plain states where they may be meet with odd stares and less friendly attitudes.

I can name a few "Large/medium" cities in the central states that aren't as friendly/accepting/cultural hubs as compared to their coastal counterparts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
People from the coasts refer to anything between I-95/I-87 in the east and US 101/I-5 in the west as fly-over hinterlands where there be Waffle Houses, dragons and republicans. Texas falls within this abyss. We had to create our own "third" coast here.
I cant really speak for the east coast, but the west coast....everything bordering California and a few states further are for sure not "Fly-Over" country. Especially with how intertwined CA is with Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas and etc. If anything, the severe mid west (Idaho, Dakotas,Montana, Iowa, Kansas, Wyoming and etc.) and sever south ( Kentucky, Arkansas, West Virginia, Tennessee and etc. ) are the states that make us say......BLAH........ HAHAHAHAHA.

Last edited by caligrad; Dec 7, 2017 at 3:24 AM.
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  #32  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 4:41 AM
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Steely, do you think I read entire posts?

I have local equivalents by the way. The Ballard Locks goes up to 80 ft × 825 ft, which I presume is slightly larger than the largest ship allowed. They also have smaller locks. That houses ocean-going ships too, like most of the Alaska fishing fleet.
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  #33  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 4:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caligrad View Post
Majority of the countries largest cities/metros are along the coast, didn't think I would have to clarify but ok LOL.

But can it truly be big vs small? and not cultural ?, the coasts (nothing to do with how big the cities/counties are) are more culturally diverse than the interiors. Yeah you will find gaps in the coasts where that diversity falls , even I know the severe upper NE isn't as diverse as say a drive south to Boston or NY, but the world is more aware of the coastal regions rather than the interiors.. Nothing wrong with that, but cultural diversity will most likely be found along the coast, making immigrants feel more welcomed there, rather than in the central/plain states where they may be meet with odd stares and less friendly attitudes.

I can name a few "Large/medium" cities in the central states that aren't as friendly/accepting/cultural hubs as compared to their coastal counterparts.



I cant really speak for the east coast, but the west coast....everything bordering California and a few states further are for sure not "Fly-Over" country. Especially with how intertwined CA is with Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas and etc. If anything, the severe mid west (Idaho, Dakotas,Montana, Iowa, Kansas, Wyoming and etc.) and sever south ( Kentucky, Arkansas, West Virginia, Tennessee and etc. ) are the states that make us say......BLAH........ HAHAHAHAHA.
You have such an adult way of writing comments.
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  #34  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 11:30 AM
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How do cities in Florida fit into the whole "coastal" dynamic?
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  #35  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
How do cities in Florida fit into the whole "coastal" dynamic?


Tampa, FL is on the eastern shore of the Gulf. The Gulf is sometimes referred to as the "Third Coast" or I guess it could be called the "South Coast"? Tampa is in an East Coast state that happens to lie along the West Coast of that East Coast state, and not too far south the from northern panhandle area.
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  #36  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 3:42 PM
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Tampa, FL is on the eastern shore of the Gulf. The Gulf is sometimes referred to as the "Third Coast" or I guess it could be called the "South Coast"?
one thing i don't understand, why would the gulf coast want or need to rebrand itself as "third coast" or "south coast"?

it already has a perfectly serviceable and widely acknowledged coastal name: "The Gulf Coast".
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  #37  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 3:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caligrad View Post
Majority of the countries largest cities/metros are along the coast, didn't think I would have to clarify but ok LOL.

But can it truly be big vs small? and not cultural ?, the coasts (nothing to do with how big the cities/counties are) are more culturally diverse than the interiors. Yeah you will find gaps in the coasts where that diversity falls , even I know the severe upper NE isn't as diverse as say a drive south to Boston or NY, but the world is more aware of the coastal regions rather than the interiors.. Nothing wrong with that, but cultural diversity will most likely be found along the coast, making immigrants feel more welcomed there, rather than in the central/plain states where they may be meet with odd stares and less friendly attitudes.

I can name a few "Large/medium" cities in the central states that aren't as friendly/accepting/cultural hubs as compared to their coastal counterparts.



I cant really speak for the east coast, but the west coast....everything bordering California and a few states further are for sure not "Fly-Over" country. Especially with how intertwined CA is with Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas and etc. If anything, the severe mid west (Idaho, Dakotas,Montana, Iowa, Kansas, Wyoming and etc.) and sever south ( Kentucky, Arkansas, West Virginia, Tennessee and etc. ) are the states that make us say......BLAH........ HAHAHAHAHA.
How are Texas and New Mexico intertwined with California? They don't have anything to do with CA other than a bunch of cars with CA plates heading east on I-10. I can name quite a few "Large/medium" cities in the central states that are friendly/accepting/cultural hubs. How about Chicago for starters. Columbus, Nashville, Denver, etc.
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  #38  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 3:57 PM
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^ don't ever seek out a californian if you're looking for geographical sense.

they've got about as strong of a handle on the nation's geography as your average new englander.
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  #39  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 4:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
one thing i don't understand, why would the gulf coast want or need to rebrand itself as "third coast" or "south coast"?

it already has a perfectly serviceable and widely acknowledged coastal name: "The Gulf Coast".
i've never heard it called anything else, except for specific parts like the "cajun coast" or western gulf.
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