HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1781  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 9:10 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post
By the way, Zillow classifies the Denver housing market as "cool" and says it's a buyers' market.

I'm sure all the buyers will be glad to hear that!
Ahhh, I needed a good belly laugh for today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EngiNerd View Post
And our insistence on building basements, which are quite expensive. The cheaper "starter" homes that they build in Colorado Springs have only crawl spaces or are just a slab on ground to keep the cost down.
That's more by custom, no? Many of Denver's starter home neighborhoods of yesterday don't have basements.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1782  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 5:32 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 177
I find this purchase to be interesting. Makes me wonder if investors are starting to look at the Globeville neighborhood for development given the impending hundreds of millions in construction for 70/NWC coming....

http://www.businessden.com/2017/12/0...dustrial-site/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1783  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 10:53 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 177
Also,

Pretty interesting read on some of the potential numbers that could stack up when it comes to the Amazon bid - https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...orado-tax.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1784  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 11:05 PM
EngiNerd's Avatar
EngiNerd EngiNerd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Englewood, CO
Posts: 1,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Ahhh, I needed a good belly laugh for today.


That's more by custom, no? Many of Denver's starter home neighborhoods of yesterday don't have basements.
Every new single family home in the Denver area that I know of comes with a basement of some sort. Sometimes full, sometimes partial, but it's a basement which requires excavating out 8 feet of soil minimum, pouring concrete walls, window wells, etc. Most people just don't use their basement except for storage, and its where our water heater and furnace goes, but those could easily be put above ground.
__________________
"The engineer is the key figure in the material progress of the world. It is his engineering that makes a reality of the potential value of science by translating scientific knowledge into tools, resources, energy and labor to bring them into the service of man. To make contributions of this kind the engineer requires the imagination to visualize the need of society and to appreciate what is possible as well as the technological and broad social age understanding to bring his vision to reality."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1785  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2017, 12:02 AM
CONative's Avatar
CONative CONative is offline
Mile High Guy
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by EngiNerd View Post
Every new single family home in the Denver area that I know of comes with a basement of some sort. Sometimes full, sometimes partial, but it's a basement which requires excavating out 8 feet of soil minimum, pouring concrete walls, window wells, etc. Most people just don't use their basement except for storage, and its where our water heater and furnace goes, but those could easily be put above ground.
Not EVERY single-family house does. Some of the Stapleton builders didn't/don't OR still offer it as an option. Same thing for Oakwood/Green Valley Ranch. Same is true for a few other developments in the recent past. I would say 85%-90% of new homes have basements though (and about the same amount for re-sale homes in Denver Metro). A higher percentage are being finished on completion -- instead of just being unfinished.
__________________
-D-
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1786  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2017, 12:09 AM
jubguy3's Avatar
jubguy3 jubguy3 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: SL,UT
Posts: 889
I live and spend my time in the part of Salt Lake where most houses were built pre-war. I have not been in a single pre 1940's house that doesn't have a basement. Quite a few new homes I know of don't include them though. Why does it seem to be the opposite?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1787  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2017, 2:20 AM
spr8364's Avatar
spr8364 spr8364 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Castle Rock
Posts: 18
Basements are a relatively low-cost way of dramatically increasing square footage. However, it's not free and that is why some builders choose not to provide them so they can provide a lower cost home (and probably pocket a little extra for themselves). Most (but not all) prewar houses I know of in Denver have some basement even though it is very low and pretty much useless. Some people like the basements for tornado shelter, some like it for the cool temps they provide in the Summer. But, in the Denver metro, houses with basements are more common than houses without them in both new and old housing stock that I have seen. I also think if you're building a 2500 sf house, do you really need a 1200 sf basement? Maybe some people are starting to understand they really don't need the extra square footage.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1788  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2017, 3:19 PM
Stonemans_rowJ's Avatar
Stonemans_rowJ Stonemans_rowJ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lodo
Posts: 314
The norm in Stapleton is basements; a very high percentage, I would say 90% of all homes. There are some courtyard bungalow style SFHs w/o basements though, total square footage like 1700-1800'. KB Homes did some like this, probably other builders.

None of the attached slot homes have basements, or at least again like 95% do not have basements. I'm talking the vast majority of those fugly slot homes in Jefferson Park, Lohi, North Denver. Although there are a few "more upscale" rows that did excavate basements and were geared more towards older buyers and 2nd homes. There's one on Zuni and another between 17th and Central.

I have only seen a few "pre-war" homes that did not have basements here in Denver and they were from early 1940's. So I don't know if that's considered pre-war. Like build date of 1940. And the norm now is creating usable space in your basement. It's rare to see a bungalow for sale that hasn't done something with the basement, It's extremely common to see an extra bed and bath down there. Much cheaper than going up and "popping the top" although you only get typically 6'8"-7' of finished height, whereas the Stapleton basements you generally get 9' finished height or at least 8'.

What is the added cost to excavate? It seems to me that while labor has gotten more expensive, the cost of machinery, fuel, operators, etc. would be relatively equivalent to 6 years ago whereas the land costs have doubled.
__________________
Jeff
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1789  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2017, 5:14 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ View Post
There are some courtyard bungalow style SFHs w/o basements though, total square footage like 1700-1800'. KB Homes did some like this, probably other builders.
I'm familiar with KB's patio homes; they built them in several places in Arapahoe Co/Aurora in Cherry Creek School District. Bunch of them east of the Broncos facility off Arapahoe Rd.

The yesterday's starter homes I was thinking of are post-war (1950's) neighborhoods in SE Denver like Virginia Village and University Hills.

Funky Friday
Marriott's new 1501-room convention hotel has reached the 70% completion point. Pretty interesting...

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...-complete.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Business Journal
After an aggressive construction schedule involving some 1,300 temporary construction workers, builders of the Gaylord Rockies Resort & Convention Center in Aurora say they are 70 percent complete and should have no problem opening by late November 2018, as has been their plan. ... its more than 2 million square feet is the largest lodging facility currently being constructed in the United States.
How did you manage the tight labor market?
Quote:
The company also invested heavily in its 79 subcontractors, signing on five different drywalling firms and two separate electrical subcontractors to ensure that it did not fall behind in its plans. Bray estimated that Rida is spending about $20 million per month on construction.
How's the convention business looking way out there?
Quote:
The $800 million project already has booked more than 627,000 room nights for conferences and meetings, beginning in February 2019 and running as far out as 2028.
Is Aurora excited?
Quote:
Aurora leaders note that 85 percent of the groups booking rooms in the facility are groups that have not held conventions in the Denver area previously, bringing a huge economic boom to the area.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1790  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2017, 10:15 PM
CastleScott CastleScott is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sacramento Ca/formerly CastleRock Co
Posts: 710
Looks like RiNo is getting a new 5-7 story apt project (saw it on Denverinfill).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1791  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2017, 10:16 PM
CastleScott CastleScott is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sacramento Ca/formerly CastleRock Co
Posts: 710
^ Gaylord project is in today's post:
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/12/08...center-aurora/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1792  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2017, 12:49 AM
spr8364's Avatar
spr8364 spr8364 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Castle Rock
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ View Post
The norm in Stapleton is basements; a very high percentage, I would say 90% of all homes. There are some courtyard bungalow style SFHs w/o basements though, total square footage like 1700-1800'. KB Homes did some like this, probably other builders.

None of the attached slot homes have basements, or at least again like 95% do not have basements. I'm talking the vast majority of those fugly slot homes in Jefferson Park, Lohi, North Denver. Although there are a few "more upscale" rows that did excavate basements and were geared more towards older buyers and 2nd homes. There's one on Zuni and another between 17th and Central.

I have only seen a few "pre-war" homes that did not have basements here in Denver and they were from early 1940's. So I don't know if that's considered pre-war. Like build date of 1940. And the norm now is creating usable space in your basement. It's rare to see a bungalow for sale that hasn't done something with the basement, It's extremely common to see an extra bed and bath down there. Much cheaper than going up and "popping the top" although you only get typically 6'8"-7' of finished height, whereas the Stapleton basements you generally get 9' finished height or at least 8'.

What is the added cost to excavate? It seems to me that while labor has gotten more expensive, the cost of machinery, fuel, operators, etc. would be relatively equivalent to 6 years ago whereas the land costs have doubled.
Since houses without basements in Colorado are usually built over a crawl space, they have already excavated half the basement. They have the equipment on site and they don't need added mobilization costs. There is the added cost of removing the extra dirt to off site and also adding a concrete slab. But, I have heard numbers of 1/3 the cost for below grade square footage compared to 1st floor square footage.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1793  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2017, 7:28 AM
CastleScott CastleScott is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sacramento Ca/formerly CastleRock Co
Posts: 710
Anyone here think that Denver is ready for an Intercontinental Hotel? I do and a couple of great sites could be the Emily Griffith site or Block 162 (condos could be part of the mix too).


Oh btw maybe that 90 proposal could host an Intercontinental as well-look what happened in downtown LA with the tallest open air bar (might be a problem in winter though but Denver needs an observation deck of some sorts).

Last edited by CastleScott; Dec 9, 2017 at 7:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1794  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2017, 4:04 PM
BG918's Avatar
BG918 BG918 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by CastleScott View Post
Anyone here think that Denver is ready for an Intercontinental Hotel? I do and a couple of great sites could be the Emily Griffith site or Block 162 (condos could be part of the mix too).


Oh btw maybe that 90 proposal could host an Intercontinental as well-look what happened in downtown LA with the tallest open air bar (might be a problem in winter though but Denver needs an observation deck of some sorts).
Intercontinental and Omni would be great in the convention center area. Downtown Denver still lacks a full service Hilton which was rumored at one time to be part of Block 162. Also a W Hotel, any news on that proposal on the Bell Tower site at 14th & Larimer?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1795  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2017, 9:07 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by CastleScott View Post
Anyone here think that Denver is ready for an Intercontinental Hotel? I do and a couple of great sites could be the Emily Griffith site or Block 162 (condos could be part of the mix too).
Denver may not have their flagship but Hotel Indigo developed by John Portman & Assoc in DUS is an IHG brand. Additionally Kimpton Hotels is a private subsidiary of InterContinental Hotels Group. The new Hotel Born is their 2nd in Denver.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1796  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2017, 10:57 PM
CONative's Avatar
CONative CONative is offline
Mile High Guy
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ View Post
The norm in Stapleton is basements; a very high percentage, I would say 90% of all homes. There are some courtyard bungalow style SFHs w/o basements though, total square footage like 1700-1800'. KB Homes did some like this, probably other builders.

None of the attached slot homes have basements, or at least again like 95% do not have basements. I'm talking the vast majority of those fugly slot homes in Jefferson Park, Lohi, North Denver. Although there are a few "more upscale" rows that did excavate basements and were geared more towards older buyers and 2nd homes. There's one on Zuni and another between 17th and Central.

I have only seen a few "pre-war" homes that did not have basements here in Denver and they were from early 1940's. So I don't know if that's considered pre-war. Like build date of 1940. And the norm now is creating usable space in your basement. It's rare to see a bungalow for sale that hasn't done something with the basement, It's extremely common to see an extra bed and bath down there. Much cheaper than going up and "popping the top" although you only get typically 6'8"-7' of finished height, whereas the Stapleton basements you generally get 9' finished height or at least 8'.

What is the added cost to excavate? It seems to me that while labor has gotten more expensive, the cost of machinery, fuel, operators, etc. would be relatively equivalent to 6 years ago whereas the land costs have doubled.
As far as just single-family....In addition to the courtyard KB homes (which were actually called the Coach House Series), Stapleton also has Boulder Creek homes that do not have basements as standard (in the southern portion). A number of the townhome and ground floor condos don't as well.

...and my Stapleton house has 10' finished ceilings (and it did cost extra to dig further), and it makes it feel even more "unbasement-like" than the 8' or 9' finished basements.

It may not be ideal with the older (pre-war) homes that have short ceilings and the very "basement-like feeling" when finished, but I'm seeing a lot of finished basements being chosen by new-build home buyers across the Front Range (because they don't seem so "basement-like" anymore and because it's cheaper than above-ground)....a lot more than it used to be.
__________________
-D-
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1797  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 7:56 AM
CastleScott CastleScott is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sacramento Ca/formerly CastleRock Co
Posts: 710
^ Ahh the good ole Colorado basements-not only extra room with a big screen TV for sports plus a wet bar and a pool table to boot and oh btw if you lived near Castle Rock or the central/eastern plains it was a good place to hide out during a tornado warning as well. Ahh the good ole days!!

Oh btw its great to see the Broncos finally win one!!!

Last edited by CastleScott; Dec 11, 2017 at 8:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1798  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 8:32 AM
jubguy3's Avatar
jubguy3 jubguy3 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: SL,UT
Posts: 889
I dug down in my 1918 tudor Yalecrest house in SLC (which is similar in nature to many homes in Denver) a foot and had to leave a foot around the outside for the foundation footing where I ended up installing custom bookshelves. I got much needed extra height but it was expensive to do, digging through the clay was expensive and difficult and my basement was effectively shrunken by 12 inches on each side. That being said I was able to finish my basement with 8'5" ceilings which was much better than the 7' from before. I have two bedrooms, a pantry, all the utilities, a large bath / laundry combo and a TV room. I think this was right as the recession happened and it cost 85k but surprisingly had an equal return on investment because you can utilize another 800-1000 sq feet of the house without major structural changes.

Does denver really have many pre-war homes without basements? I am shopping in NE SLC and I haven't come across a single home built before 1940 that does not have a basement. What prompts the discrepancy between SLC and DEN? Is it even true that few pre-war homes have basements in Denver? Does anyone know why this pattern exists?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1799  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 2:04 PM
Stonemans_rowJ's Avatar
Stonemans_rowJ Stonemans_rowJ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lodo
Posts: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by jubguy3 View Post

Does denver really have many pre-war homes without basements? I am shopping in NE SLC and I haven't come across a single home built before 1940 that does not have a basement. What prompts the discrepancy between SLC and DEN? Is it even true that few pre-war homes have basements in Denver? Does anyone know why this pattern exists?

No, Most/all pre-war homes in Denver have some sort of basement, same as SLC
__________________
Jeff
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1800  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 2:58 PM
CONative's Avatar
CONative CONative is offline
Mile High Guy
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ View Post
No, Most/all pre-war homes in Denver have some sort of basement, same as SLC
Agreed. Almost all pre-war Denver homes have basements (90%-99%). Post-war and current homes are also a very high percentage (probably over 90%).
__________________
-D-
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:55 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.