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  #161  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2017, 1:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L'homard View Post
If this project is scuttled by 6 to 12 unhappy residents, it spells doom for MHS. There are no other deals coming down the pipes, especially none that involving saving the iconic, historic structure, bringing in hundreds of jobs and putting a cool $1 million into taxpayers ppckets.
Let us be clear here. THis is NOT a flood plain, it is NOT a sports field and I have yet to have anyone show how this is suddenly a "conservation zone."
It's a field that I've driven by for half a century, on average two to four times every day, and can count on my fingers how often I've seen a human being in it in all these decades. I've also never seen it flood.
Let's stop the game playing. We either let the Carpenters develop MHS or we tear it down. If there were other options, we would have heard about them in the past several years.
I have zero sympathy for the enraged neighbours. I seriously doubt that any of them used the field recreationally at all. Perhaps some would occasionally walk their dogs there, but that would be about it. Some of these people may fantasize about turning the field into a community park of some kind, but who would pay the bill - the city???? The city needs tax revenue even to maintain the recreational infrastructure we have now, let alone build and maintain another green space.

I have a little more sympathy for the position of the Petitcodiac Watershed Alliance. At least their points about runoff from the impermeable surface of the parking lot make some environmental sense, but I'm sure compromises could be made in the design of the parking lot to mitigate this problem.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not generally a booster of surface parking, and where possible, I would prefer to see enclosed parking structures instead but I prefer pragmatism to dogmatism and the MHS redevelopment is far too important to the city to let die over the concerns of a dozen unhappy residential neighbours.

AN MHS redevelopment means hundreds of new well paying jobs for the city, in a portion of the city that badly needs an economic injection. There will be more stores and restaurants in the neighbourhood, as well as the arts complex in the old MHS auditorium and gymnasium. There are tens of millions of dollars of redevelopment money at peril here, not to mention the city's reputation as a "can do" development friendly jurisdiction. We can't let the NIMBYs win on this particular file.

I think L'homard is absolutely right here. If Heritage Developments walks away from this project, I truly believe the last best hope for preserving the MHS building will be gone. The next step will be a wrecking ball and another vacant lot - just what the city doesn't need.......
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  #162  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2017, 1:41 AM
Scarface Scarface is offline
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Not sure if the province/City would have had other plans put forth but I have heard 2 others. Both is more private property stay away.

1. Demolish the school, and auditorium.Gym Build a brand new building(s) to
replace. and Turn the old field into a court/neighborhood with all
apartment buildings that would match the 2 on Church/Hester.

2. Renovation of Moncton High Including demolition of a small part to add
parking, and turn the main level to comercial/offices apartments above and
still have the field turn into housing.

I'm curently looking to find the plans that had been made public then soon deleted from another forum site I use. no promises since the people who made the plans did not give permition for it to be shared but there was an Unmarked plan that as similar.
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  #163  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2017, 12:47 PM
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Moncton MLA backs paving old high school's sports field for parking
Chris Collins worries developer will walk away from development of heritage site if parking lot is denied
By Kate Letterick, CBC News Posted: Nov 06, 2017 7:00 AM AT| Last Updated: Nov 06, 2017 7:00 AM AT
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...-lot-1.4386754

Quote:
As Moncton city council gets ready to decide the fate of a sports field near the former Moncton high school, the MLA for the area is wading into the debate.

Liberal Chris Collins, who represents Moncton Centre, said he's worried that if Heritage Developments isn't given approval to add 351 parking spaces in the lot adjoining the school and another 559 on the former football field, the company could walk away from the project.
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  #164  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2017, 3:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Moncton MLA backs paving old high school's sports field for parking
Chris Collins worries developer will walk away from development of heritage site if parking lot is denied
By Kate Letterick, CBC News Posted: Nov 06, 2017 7:00 AM AT| Last Updated: Nov 06, 2017 7:00 AM AT
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...-lot-1.4386754




This is only one MLA I wonder who else will be thinking the same way because Heritage Developments already said they would walk from what I have been reading on the whole issue.


On another note I was looking at the size of the Building+Courtyard minus the gym, and Auditorium, and it seems that the school would be around the same square footage as the Blue Cross Call Centre on Millennium Blvd. Im wondering if there plans like MH35's plans would include adding structure in the courtyard area, and closing off the opening between the Gym, and School classrooms area at the back of the building.
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  #165  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2017, 5:56 PM
habskilla habskilla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I have zero sympathy for the enraged neighbours. I seriously doubt that any of them used the field recreationally at all. Perhaps some would occasionally walk their dogs there, but that would be about it. Some of these people may fantasize about turning the field into a community park of some kind, but who would pay the bill - the city???? The city needs tax revenue even to maintain the recreational infrastructure we have now, let alone build and maintain another green space.

I have a little more sympathy for the position of the Petitcodiac Watershed Alliance. At least their points about runoff from the impermeable surface of the parking lot make some environmental sense, but I'm sure compromises could be made in the design of the parking lot to mitigate this problem.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not generally a booster of surface parking, and where possible, I would prefer to see enclosed parking structures instead but I prefer pragmatism to dogmatism and the MHS redevelopment is far too important to the city to let die over the concerns of a dozen unhappy residential neighbours.

AN MHS redevelopment means hundreds of new well paying jobs for the city, in a portion of the city that badly needs an economic injection. There will be more stores and restaurants in the neighbourhood, as well as the arts complex in the old MHS auditorium and gymnasium. There are tens of millions of dollars of redevelopment money at peril here, not to mention the city's reputation as a "can do" development friendly jurisdiction. We can't let the NIMBYs win on this particular file.

I think L'homard is absolutely right here. If Heritage Developments walks away from this project, I truly believe the last best hope for preserving the MHS building will be gone. The next step will be a wrecking ball and another vacant lot - just what the city doesn't need.......
Firstly, at what point do you draw the line at usage? How many people will it take to use the green space before you say, "it's too well used to pave it over?" I suspect, the number is 1. Meaning, you don't care how many people from the neighbourhood use it, you want it paved over *for the greater good*.

Secondly, I don't think you live in that area, so how can comment how well used that green space is. If the plan doesn’t work out and the only option left is to tear it down, then so be it.

Joni Mitchell nailed it long ago with the Big Yellow Taxi song.

This mentality is the biggest problem in Moncton right now. To hell with what neighourhoods want/need. The greater good should/does override it. Unless of course, it is in your neighbourhood

I bet you dollars to donuts you do not live in this neighbourhood.

I bet you dollars to donuts you do not live in the Ellwood area either. So a Costco going there and destroying the traffic pattern means absolutely nothing to you.

I bet you dollars to donuts you do not live in the Sunny Brea area so council approving the new industrial part means absolutely nothing to you either.

I bet you dollars to donuts if the city wanted to build a Costco, a huge parking lot, or a new industrial park in YOUR neighbourhood, you'd sing a different tune.

fyi, I am not going to debate youor anyone else on these points, because you'll never come around.

I'm not saying don't build anything new, but stop with this destroying neighbourhoods for the sake of the almighty buck.
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  #166  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2017, 6:25 PM
Monctoncore Monctoncore is online now
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There are a few problems here, one no need to attack Monctonrad for having a specific view on this. Two he has many times said he would prefer Costco build on the old Day & Ross site. Three the green space is a soccer/football field, Moncton high used this fenced in field for practices, since the school left, it has been padlocked and not used. I have a friend who owns a house very near there and says it’s more of an eyesore than anything else, it rarely gets mowed, it’s green space around the field is full of dog fecal matter and other garbage/waste. Now everyone in that neighbourhood has a right to make their arguement, but so do people from other parts of the city as well.

All I ask is you do not attack someone for having an opinion. Dispute what he says all you want but just because he or she or whoever doesn’t live in said area, does not mean their views aren’t valid.

View the field on google maps, it’s not very pretty and currently is surrounded by the highway on one side, hospital parking on the other and a few houses that are separated by a larger section of trees.
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  #167  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2017, 12:51 PM
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Council gives go ahead to turn former Moncton High site into parking
Councillor says city, 'stuck between a rock and a hard place' in light of new information
By Tori Weldon, CBC News Posted: Nov 07, 2017 6:44 AM AT| Last Updated: Nov 07, 2017 6:45 AM AT
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...king-1.4390586

Quote:
Early in the meeting Bill Budd, director of planning with the city, revealed the provincially owned field would most likely be paved, whether council approved the motion or not.

"The assistant deputy minister of transportation and infrastructure indicated that if this sale doesn't go forward, the sports field property will be used as infrastructure for the hospital and may involve parking," said Budd.
The vote was unanimous in favour of allowing the parking lot conversion, but really city council had no choice. The province was intent on using this property for expanded parking for the Dumont Hospital if the city didn't allow rezoning for heritage developments. At least this way, the city can place restrictions on the rezoning to allow for runoff management and for landscaping. The province on the other hand could simply ignore any conditions placed on the property by the city.

There is one final hurdle for MHS. Heritage Developments has until December 15th to complete due diligence on the purchase. If their engineering inspections show that it would be uneconomic to convert MHS, they could still walk away......
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  #168  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2017, 2:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Council gives go ahead to turn former Moncton High site into parking
Councillor says city, 'stuck between a rock and a hard place' in light of new information
By Tori Weldon, CBC News Posted: Nov 07, 2017 6:44 AM AT| Last Updated: Nov 07, 2017 6:45 AM AT
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...king-1.4390586



The vote was unanimous in favour of allowing the parking lot conversion, but really city council had no choice. The province was intent on using this property for expanded parking for the Dumont Hospital if the city didn't allow rezoning for heritage developments. At least this way, the city can place restrictions on the rezoning to allow for runoff management and for landscaping. The province on the other hand could simply ignore any conditions placed on the property by the city.

There is one final hurdle for MHS. Heritage Developments has until December 15th to complete due diligence on the purchase. If their engineering inspections show that it would be uneconomic to convert MHS, they could still walk away......
I'm wondering if this means Heritage Developments will be using this as parking for there project, or it will be extra parking for the Dumont Hospital, or both.

I will say I have gone to the Dumont a few times over the last few weeks, and it's hard to find parking even more so ATM. If Heritage is ussing it 100% for there Project I do hope something will be done for the Dumont Parking issue. We have seen people mostly staff parked on surounding streets.
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  #169  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2017, 3:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Scarface View Post
I'm wondering if this means Heritage Developments will be using this as parking for there project, or it will be extra parking for the Dumont Hospital, or both.
It (the parking) will only be used for the MHS redevelopment project.

Here are the conditions placed on the parking lot rezoning application from last night's meeting:

Quote:
a) That the final design of the off-site parking lot incorporate input from the adjacent neighbourhood in terms of parking lot layout and circulation, green space, landscaping and buffering and that final approval be required of Council prior to finalizing the Conditional Zoning Agreement;
b) That a Phased Parking Plan be required that requires parking for the redevelopment be achieved on the former school site first before expanding onto the off-site parking lot and be based on actual uses (eg., maximizes parking on former school site first);
c) That development of additional expansion of parking on the off-site parking be based on actual development taking place on the former high school property;
d) That a parking strategy be developed for the Not-for-Profit operations to minimize the number of parking spaces that have to be developed for Phase II & III of the redevelopment which includes a shared parking models for evening and weekend events;
e) That site-servicing and drainage plans shall meet the Engineering standards;
f) That the driveway entrance on Halls Street be removed;
g) That the only vehicular access to the off-site parking lot be located on Church Street;
h) That the existing park area currently occupied by Halls Park as well as existing vegetation buffer be parceled from PID 70626304 and be vested to the City of Moncton;
i) That existing mature trees dividing the parking areas as well as the trees along the norther edge of the parking area on PID 70556329 be maintained. These trees are to be identified on the site plan. In the case that trees need to be removed for health or public safety reasons, an arborist report will be required explaining the reason why the trees need to be removed and a new tree shall be planted to replace existing;
j) A building permit for Phase 1 of the proposed development, which consists of the renovation of part of the school to accommodate commercial tenants, shall be issued within 2 years of the registration of this rezoning; and
k) That the site be developed in general conformity with the approved plans and drawings; and
l) That the $1000 security deposit required for a Conditional Rezoning Agreement and by-law registry fees be paid prior to registration.
The parking is only for MHS, and will only be developed when absolutely necessary, and then in a phased manner. Existing trees and shrubbery will be preserved, and any land not actually used for the parking lot will revert to the city for green space development. An existing playground on the border of this lot of land will be updated.
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  #170  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 12:23 AM
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So, if I am not mistaken, Heritage Developments will have completed their due diligence regarding the MHS redevelopment project by December 15th. This should mean that by the end of this week, or the first of next week, we should know once and for all if the Carpenters will take on the task of renovating and repurposing the old Moncton High School.

There may be some structural issues, but the biggest risk factor in undertaking this project AFAIK is the old asbestos insulation. This can be very expensive to remove. Hopefully this won't be enough to kill this project.........
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  #171  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 3:47 PM
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According to the T&T, Heritage Developments has been granted an extension to complete their "due diligence" of the old MHS site before completing the purchase. This will allow them additional time to determine the cost of remediating structural issues and asbestos removal. The new date will be March 31st, 2018.

This extension could be construed as either good news or bad news depending on your point of view. On the bright side, Heritage Developments is obviously interested enough in the property to not walk away from the project prematurely. On the dark side, this extension must mean that there are more problems with MHS than Heritage Properties anticipated.

I choose to remain optimistic, but this news makes me temper my optimism somewhat.........
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  #172  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 9:51 PM
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I'm disappointed in the extension but I'm not reading anything into it.
They said all along it would be a real challenge to complete their work by Dec. 15. They mentioned that they were finding different issues, in some cases, in rooms that are right beside each other, in other words different problems every few metres, in some cases.
That would make it really difficult to get a good handle on what they are facing should they take ownership.
I hope that's all that's at play.
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