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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2017, 8:45 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
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If you want to move and live in arguably the best country in the world the least you could do is learn one of the languages.

As for the Chinese community, I find the overwhelming majority of Chinese make excellent citizens but these corrupt, money laundering, passport buying, and xenophobic recent arrivals have given the entire Chinese population in Vancouver an extremely bad name. These recent arrivals have undone decades of improving race/cultural relations.
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2017, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
What's wrong with China? Where do you want to start?

-The brutal repression of ethnic & religious minorities.
-The lack of rule of law for citizens who can be spirited away in the middle of the night, even from foreign countries.
-The race to steal manufacturing jobs at the cost of polluting not just china but the whole planet.
-Trying to control what its citizens think by blocking internet sites.
-A culture of corruption and cronyism that spreads to everywhere in the world their money touches.

I could go on and on, I'm surprised they even let you read SSP frankly.
Chinese government =/= Chinese people. Individuals should not be treated poorly just because they come from a country whose government has objectionable policies.

While you do have a point that the Chinese government has some major issues, I would like to address a couple of points:

1. While Tibetans and Uighurs are certainly treated badly by the Chinese government (not entirely surprising, given the separatist element in both of these ethnic groups) there are plenty of ethnic and religious minorities who are not oppressed by the government. Eg. The Hui, a Muslim minority who are very well integrated into Chinese society.

2. Why blame China for the loss of manufacturing jobs? Why not blame western companies who voluntarily moved their factories to China to take advantage of low labour costs and lax environmental regulations? The Chinese didn't force these companies to move there. As far as pollution goes, yes, it's bad, but there is a major effort to clean it up - China is already the world's largest investor in renewable energy, and China's coal use (a major source of its air pollution problem) has already started to decline as a result.

As for your final comment, there is a lot more unblocked content on the Chinese internet than you might think (some western media give the impression that every single foreign site is blocked, which is most certainly not the case) and for sites that are blocked anyone with a lick of technical sense can easily and cheaply set up their own private server to completely bypass the 'Great Firewall', as I have.
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2017, 2:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
If you want to move and live in arguably the best country in the world the least you could do is learn one of the languages.

As for the Chinese community, I find the overwhelming majority of Chinese make excellent citizens but these corrupt, money laundering, passport buying, and xenophobic recent arrivals have given the entire Chinese population in Vancouver an extremely bad name. These recent arrivals have undone decades of improving race/cultural relations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
Chinese government =/= Chinese people. Individuals should not be treated poorly just because they come from a country whose government has objectionable policies.

While you do have a point that the Chinese government has some major issues, I would like to address a couple of points:

1. While Tibetans and Uighurs are certainly treated badly by the Chinese government (not entirely surprising, given the separatist element in both of these ethnic groups) there are plenty of ethnic and religious minorities who are not oppressed by the government. Eg. The Hui, a Muslim minority who are very well integrated into Chinese society.

2. Why blame China for the loss of manufacturing jobs? Why not blame western companies who voluntarily moved their factories to China to take advantage of low labour costs and lax environmental regulations? The Chinese didn't force these companies to move there. As far as pollution goes, yes, it's bad, but there is a major effort to clean it up - China is already the world's largest investor in renewable energy, and China's coal use (a major source of its air pollution problem) has already started to decline as a result.

As for your final comment, there is a lot more unblocked content on the Chinese internet than you might think (some western media give the impression that every single foreign site is blocked, which is most certainly not the case) and for sites that are blocked anyone with a lick of technical sense can easily and cheaply set up their own private server to completely bypass the 'Great Firewall', as I have.
Lately, there seems to be lots of bait and switch usage of the term Chinese as in people directly from China, versus Chinese Canadians (who after all, have inhabited Vancouver since the city's founding).

It's not as if people automatically jump to discussing say Russian- or Ukrainian-Canadians from say Alberta, when discussing the Russian-Ukrainian Crimea issue or current US-Russia relations under Trump's administration, after all. Or start asking Mennonite German Canadians what they think of Angela Merkel or something. So why should China and Chinese-Canadians be any different? If the issue is foreign investment, from China or otherwise, discuss the issue of foreign investment from there itself. One doesn't need to bring up whether Canadians of Chinese heritage who have lived in the city as any other Canadians did for generations have have anything to do with the corruption and the dictatorship of China itself or non-Canadian citizens from there. If there are crooks taking advantage of Canada, then those crooks directly need to be called out, regardless of race or ethnicity.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2018, 7:13 PM
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Who is "fit" to immigrate to Canada?

Those who:

1) Have some basic ideas of where and what Canada is in general

2) Have some basic ideas of what Western culture is in general

3) Understand and embrace the values of Western democracy

4) Are willing to respect the Western judiciary system

5) Are willing to respect and embrace Canadian values and culture

6) Are willing to affiliate into Canadian mainstream society

7) Are willing to make Canada a permanent home and be loyal to the country

8) Have basic proficiency of at least one of the official languages of Canada

9) Have assets or skills that will benefit and contribute to Canadian society

10) Are prepared to be a good and productive citizen of Canada
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2018, 10:09 PM
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I like how our immigration system runs now. The points system helps Canada pick immigrants we need and/or who will be successful here. Emphasis needs to be put on teaching prospective immigrants about the Charter of Rights and why it's important. Do we really want people coming here who don't agree with gender equality, homosexuality, etc? I don't.

I love that multiculturalism is enshrined at the federal level. Our culture is in a continual state of flux and it's richer for all the influences, customs, and traditions bring here. That's always been how Canada has worked. The idea that now the culture must stay as it is strikes me as misguided, intolerant and smacks of entitlement.

The only other thing I'd change is the number of people we bring in. I'd prefer the target to be 1.5% of national population to keep our working age population to retired/school aged at a manageable level. I'd support a return to the days when we recruited immigrants in foreign countries. 550,000-560,000 immigrants annually please.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2018, 11:21 PM
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Canada has been doing a better job in recent years of getting immigrants to move to smaller communities.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2018, 11:31 PM
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anyone who wants to come to canada and is from a place where canadian companies/military are active, should be allowed to. I mean if we're going to be in their country, it's only fair to allow those people here.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2018, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
What's wrong with China? Where do you want to start?

-The brutal repression of ethnic & religious minorities.
-The lack of rule of law for citizens who can be spirited away in the middle of the night, even from foreign countries.
-The race to steal manufacturing jobs at the cost of polluting not just china but the whole planet.
-Trying to control what its citizens think by blocking internet sites.
-A culture of corruption and cronyism that spreads to everywhere in the world their money touches.

I could go on and on, I'm surprised they even let you read SSP frankly.
you're talking about america right? also the pollution point is moot, it produces way less than the west and China has done more to make their economy more sustainable than any western nation. the sad part is, you're more brainwashed by western chauvinism than any Chinese citizen is by their own country.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 4:46 AM
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An ideal immigration plan
-10 000 annual immigrant cap
-Fluency in either English or French (or like a native language I guess)
-Barred from government assistance/welfare
-Must live in Canada for at least 7 years to become a citizen
-Must be employed in Canada in a job that pays more than $60,000/year in fields that are extremely in need of more employees (Family Doctors in BC for example)
-Not allow people who are unemployed to live in Canada (including wealthy people)
-Family members/relatives can't immigrate more easily because their family member lives here/no nepotism
-Breaking law results in deportation (until after citizenship is obtained)
-Deport all illegal immigrants, regardless of 'amnesty'
-Do not accept refugees
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 5:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BobLoblawsLawBlog View Post
-Fluency in either English or French (or like a native language I guess)
Having an immigrant who knows an aboriginal language but neither English or French would be, rather interesting...

I don't even know if there's a pre-existing significant community or population of people already residing in Canada who know just an indigenous language but not English or French, is there?
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 5:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I'd support a return to the days when we recruited immigrants in foreign countries.
I guess those days weren't too long ago...




Sources: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...-tech-workers/

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/06/te...were-here.html
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headhorse View Post
you're talking about america right? also the pollution point is moot, it produces way less than the west and China has done more to make their economy more sustainable than any western nation. the sad part is, you're more brainwashed by western chauvinism than any Chinese citizen is by their own country.
LOL did the news about Chinese authorities bulldozing a large Christian church last month make it into the censored news? How about the ongoing persecution of Falun Gong practitioners?
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 1:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Emphasis needs to be put on teaching prospective immigrants about the Charter of Rights and why it's important. Do we really want people coming here who don't agree with gender equality, homosexuality, etc? I don't.

I love that multiculturalism is enshrined at the federal level. Our culture is in a continual state of flux and it's richer for all the influences, customs, and traditions bring here. That's always been how Canada has worked. The idea that now the culture must stay as it is strikes me as misguided, intolerant and smacks of entitlement.

.
There is a high degree of potential conflict between the point I put in bold and the one I put in italics.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Having an immigrant who knows an aboriginal language but neither English or French would be, rather interesting...

I don't even know if there's a pre-existing significant community or population of people already residing in Canada who know just an indigenous language but not English or French, is there?
There are some people up north who speak neither English nor French but only an indigenous language.

In the handful of possible cases where a prospective immigrant to Canada speaks neither English nor French, but can speak an indigenous language found on Canadian soil, the language requirement should be waived. An example could include Greenlanders wanting to migrate to Nunavut.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
There are some people up north who speak neither English nor French but only an indigenous language.

In the handful of possible cases where a prospective immigrant to Canada speaks neither English nor French, but can speak an indigenous language found on Canadian soil, the language requirement should be waived. An example could include Greenlanders wanting to migrate to Nunavut.
And I am pretty sure that is what would happen.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by headhorse View Post
anyone who wants to come to canada and is from a place where canadian companies/military are active, should be allowed to. I mean if we're going to be in their country, it's only fair to allow those people here.
We're not in those countries, the military is. And the military is benefitting these people because most of the work they do is humanitarian.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 5:22 PM
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We're not in those countries, the military is. And the military is benefitting these people because most of the work they do is humanitarian.
Yeah. We can agree or disagree on Canada's military missions abroad, but one thing is clear is that unlike some other interventionist countries, the goal of these missions isn't in any way about making these countries "more like Canada".

Unless you want to count stuff like not having open warfare in the streets as being "like Canada" and a form of imposition of our values.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
There are some people up north who speak neither English nor French but only an indigenous language.

In the handful of possible cases where a prospective immigrant to Canada speaks neither English nor French, but can speak an indigenous language found on Canadian soil, the language requirement should be waived. An example could include Greenlanders wanting to migrate to Nunavut.
That actually reminds me of Aju Peters, a prominent(?) lawyer in Nunavut, whom I learned about when I was checking out the Human Rights Museum (in Winnipeg).
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 7:57 PM
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Quote:
I love that multiculturalism is enshrined at the federal level. Our culture is in a continual state of flux and it's richer for all the influences, customs, and traditions bring here. That's always been how Canada has worked. The idea that now the culture must stay as it is strikes me as misguided, intolerant and smacks of entitlement.
^This comes the closest to encapsulating my own viewpoint, except that I also believe that some cultural communities should have some leeway on promoting/protecting what makes them distinct (Quebec, First Nations, etc.). Perhaps there is a contradiction here? To which I say, so what.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 8:19 PM
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^This comes the closest to encapsulating my own viewpoint, except that I also believe that some cultural communities should have some leeway on promoting/protecting what makes them distinct (Quebec, First Nations, etc.). Perhaps there is a contradiction here? To which I say, so what.
Finding that balance has often been almost like trying to square the circle.

Most of the time Canada has been able to achieve it, occasionally by hook and by crook.
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