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  #161  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2017, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Are the Persians in North York Jewish, like the Persians of West LA and Great Neck? I suspect no.

I've noticed the huge Persian presence around Yonge, but it seemed of more recent vintage, and didn't notice any telltale signs of Jewish neighborhoods.
Not Jewish.
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  #162  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2018, 7:14 PM
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Someone told me once that Los Angeles and Toronto are the two metro areas in North America with the largest Persian diaspora.

I think the LA, SoCal, Beverly Hills etc. Persian community is more diverse in origins than that of Toronto's though. The LA community has Iranian Armenians, Persian Jews, people who are ethnically Persian from parts of the former Soviet Union and other diaspora in the Middle East.

Toronto's is probably more Persians directly from Iran itself.
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  #163  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2018, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Vancouver has always had a small and rather uninfluential Jewish community centered along Oak Street.
What's the history of Jewish Canadians in Vancouver or the West coast more broadly? Is it similar to the Western US, where it's mostly from domestic migration from the older waves of immigrants that arrived in eastern cities?

Or more direct immigration to the West coast itself?

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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I've noticed the huge Persian presence around Yonge, but it seemed of more recent vintage, and didn't notice any telltale signs of Jewish neighborhoods.
I don't think the LA Persian community is really that much older than Toronto's. A quick googling seems to suggest it's mostly post 1960s and '70s, with a large number arriving during the time of the 1979 Iranian revolution.

Toronto had a Persian community existing at that time too. The revolution caused emigration to both places so I don't think it's fair to say one's of that much more recent vintage than the other.

Incidentally, one of the new subway stations in the line that's currently under construction in Toronto will be named "Hakimi Lebovic".

https://www.thestar.com/life/2014/03...eet_names.html

The street name was named after an Iranian immigrant founder of a pretty locally well known eyeglasses company in Canada, who started his business in 1967. So Persian Canadians have been coming and living in Toronto at least over a half century now.

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Originally Posted by Rhey10 View Post
I can also identify Jewish people in San francisco. But maybe there are mestiza/mestizo but only the blood of Jewish looks prevails on their appearances.
Jewish people are very diverse, though -- there are Ethiopian Jews for instance. One shouldn't stereotype the idea of there being only a single way that Jewish people look.
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  #164  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2018, 8:09 PM
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Jewish immigration from a country often pre-dates non-Jewish, since they were a persecuted minority. There was a Soviet Jewish wave in the 1970s, while mass non-Jewish immigration didn't take off until the 1990s after the FSU broke up. The Jewish population from North Africa left en masse in the postwar years, while Maghreb Arab immigration continued on much later (Montreal's Moroccan population was mostly Jewish for decades but that isn't likely the case anymore).
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  #165  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2018, 8:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
What's the history of Jewish Canadians in Vancouver or the West coast more broadly? Is it similar to the Western US, where it's mostly from domestic migration from the older waves of immigrants that arrived in eastern cities?

Or more direct immigration to the West coast itself?
I suspect more Van Jews descended from the early 20th century mass immigration came there from "back east" rather than immigrating there directly. Of course over the last half century or so then there's been some immigration of FSU Jews, Israelis and others adding into the community.
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  #166  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2018, 8:19 PM
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Is it common for many non-European Jewish communities to live in the same neighborhoods, towns or parts of cities (eg. Persian Jews and non-Jewish Persians together, or Jewish North Africans with other North Africans) than with the more long-standing American, Ashkenazi Jewish communities?
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  #167  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2018, 8:20 PM
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San Francisco is interesting in that it had a significant German Jewish immigration in the 19th century, but Eastern European immigration in the early 20th was modest. SF's Jewish community was more German in origin than Eastern European until fairly recently.

This German Jewish group integrated and prospered very quickly and probably set the general "tone" for the community. I suspect this may be a reason there really aren't any Jewish neighborhoods or suburbs in the Bay Area.
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  #168  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2018, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
I suspect more Van Jews descended from the early 20th century mass immigration came there from "back east" rather than immigrating there directly. Of course over the last half century or so then there's been some immigration of FSU Jews, Israelis and others adding into the community.
So, basically most of the Western US and Canada alike have their Jewish communities from domestic migration, that may be supplemented by direct migration, but which still had the "back east" migrants as the "founders" of the communities.

Are there any rare examples of Jewish communities where the direct post-war or post 60s and 70s immigrants were actually the founders of the first Jewish community in their city or town in the US or Canada?
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  #169  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2018, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Is it common for many non-European Jewish communities to live in the same neighborhoods, towns or parts of cities (eg. Persian Jews and non-Jewish Persians together, or Jewish North Africans with other North Africans) than with the more long-standing American, Ashkenazi Jewish communities?
Overall, they're more likely to live closer to Ashkenazi Jews. In Montreal, there are definitely areas that are more Sephardic and more Ashkenazi. But I don't think Sephardic Jews ever moved into areas that didn't have Ashkenazi Jews living in at least fair numbers.
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  #170  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2018, 8:40 PM
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In the US it seems like Jewish immigration history is roughly categorized into periods/waves with first the really early colonial one (at and before the Revolution), then the 19th century German wave, then the later 19th-20th century Ellis island wave, then the post war wave, and then Soviet Union and other post 1960s, and 70s one.

Many people seem to consider those people who immigrated before the 1920s as the "older" Jewish community, and either the post-war or later as "newer".

But Canada's Jewish immigration history seems to have a later start, so that it seems like its mostly post 1900s.
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  #171  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2018, 8:48 PM
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During the time of racist exclusion acts in the 20th century (meant to keep out Asians/Africans plus some southern/eastern Europeans etc.), were Sephardic/Mizrahi Jews ever subject to these barriers in either Canada or the US?

I was just reading that Australia tried to restrict Mizrahi Jews during the White Australia policy.
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  #172  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2018, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
San Francisco is interesting in that it had a significant German Jewish immigration in the 19th century, but Eastern European immigration in the early 20th was modest. SF's Jewish community was more German in origin than Eastern European until fairly recently.

This German Jewish group integrated and prospered very quickly and probably set the general "tone" for the community. I suspect this may be a reason there really aren't any Jewish neighborhoods or suburbs in the Bay Area.
San Francisco and parts of the West coast really seemed to miss out on the "Ellis Island" wave of immigration.
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  #173  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2018, 9:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
San Francisco and parts of the West coast really seemed to miss out on the "Ellis Island" wave of immigration.
Though L.A. did have a sizable Yiddish-speaking, working class Jewish community in the garment industry, centered in the neighborhood of Boyle Heights. Of course after WWII L.A. went from a minor to major Jewish center and today only a small minority of Jews in L.A. have any link to that old community.
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  #174  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 8:35 PM
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A proxy measure (the Jewish population is probably around 2-3 times that), Russian + unspecified Eastern European ancestry for selected places:

Highland Park IL 20.7%
Scarsdale NY 19.1%
Beachwood OH 18%
Millburn Township NJ 16.2%
Pepper Pike OH 13.7%
Lower Merion Township PA 13.4%
Newton MA 12.1%
Brookline MA 11.9%
Palm Beach FL 10.7%
Chevy Chase MD 9.1%
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  #175  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Not Jewish.
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Jewish immigration from a country often pre-dates non-Jewish, since they were a persecuted minority. There was a Soviet Jewish wave in the 1970s, while mass non-Jewish immigration didn't take off until the 1990s after the FSU broke up. The Jewish population from North Africa left en masse in the postwar years, while Maghreb Arab immigration continued on much later (Montreal's Moroccan population was mostly Jewish for decades but that isn't likely the case anymore).
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
I don't think the LA Persian community is really that much older than Toronto's. A quick googling seems to suggest it's mostly post 1960s and '70s, with a large number arriving during the time of the 1979 Iranian revolution.
The Ghermezian family, famed for developing the big malls of this continent -- Mall of America, West Edmonton Mall, were of Persian Jewish background and emigrated from Iran to Canada in the late 50s to early 60s.

So at least the presence of Persian/Persian Jewish immigrants to Canada is probably no less as long ago than that of the US.
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  #176  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 7:02 PM
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People seem to love to compare Asian and Jewish populations in the west but I think it's an apples-to-oranges comparison.
Just a sort of random thought -- there's a long history of the "tradition" of Jews eating Chinese food on Christmas and in general (often explained as starting in NYC), explained as being due to the Jews and Chinese as being one of the few immigrant groups who are non-Christians living side by side in American cities, and thus this allowed them to not feel left out in Christmas in a Christian country.

This is seen as a quintessentially Jewish American one, but does this "tradition" or association or image of Jewish people liking Chinese food exist in other western countries, like Canada, the UK, Australia?

In general, I wonder how common it was for Jewish communities (prior to the 1960s modern wave of immigration) to have close encounters with other non-Christians besides themselves. Most Muslims, Hindus etc. that live in the US, Canada and Australia (not sure about the UK) might not have been present in any large numbers around the areas where Jews lived in much of the 20th century, so it's kind of logical that the Chinese in urban Chinatowns who were also seen as a non-Christian "other", would have been the ones they met most often in daily life.
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  #177  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
explained as being due to the Jews and Chinese as being one of the few immigrant groups who are non-Christians living side by side in American cities, and thus this allowed them to not feel left out in Christmas in a Christian country.
I think it's simpler than that. Most Chinese are not Christian (or at least they weren't in China and when they originally immigrated until possibly converted) so they don't celebrate the religious aspect of Christmas either and--the important thing--because there are no religious issues, it's business as usual on Christmas in Chinese restaurants when other places are often closed. Recently, some have ever made it a special occasion because business is so good. In San Francisco, where the Jewish areas are nowhere near Chinatown, at least one Chinese restaurant puts on a comedy show on Christmas evening:


https://www.koshercomedy.com
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  #178  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 9:20 PM
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Yes in Canada.
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  #179  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
In San Francisco, where the Jewish areas are nowhere near Chinatown
Is there anything resembling a Jewish neighborhood or suburb in the Bay Area?
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  #180  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 3:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Is there anything resembling a Jewish neighborhood or suburb in the Bay Area?
Nothing resembling an eastern one but a lot of Jews live in and around Pacific Heights and the adjacent Laurel Heights. The city's grandest synagogue, Temple Emmanu-El is in Pacific Heights and the Jewish Community Center is in Laurel Heights.

Temple Emmanu-El


https://www.google.com/search?q=SF+T...uo88FI_DzbmEM:
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