HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #721  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 4:05 PM
O-tacular's Avatar
O-tacular O-tacular is offline
Fake News
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 15,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by memememe76 View Post
In Metro Vancouver, pretty much every mall is being expanded with some sort of residential component. But there has to be demand before developers and the Cities take on such projects.

The Eau Claire in Calgary is an interesting case. I view it as less of a mall, and more of a quay or farmers market. The actual Calgary Farmers Market is really popular, even though it's in a very industrial area. The Eau Claire is located at a nice location and there are quite a few condo towers nearby. But quiet, nonetheless.
There have been plans to redevelop Eau Claire for close to a decade now. Currently a first phase including a hotel and office building are approved with no construction pending. Subsequent phases would include residential and a mall with retail.
__________________
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire

https://clockzillakingoflaval.tumblr.com
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #722  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 9:26 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 5,706
The Eau Claire market failed for the same reasons that London's newish Covenant Garden Market succeeded.

Eau Claire did not have a clear vision of what it was to become or who it was to serve. It tried to appeal to both shoppers who wanted something different and yet also offerred chain restaurants/stores/service for those who wanted name brand stores..............in trying to appeal to everyone, it became nothing more than another mall with a few special stores. It was also ill designed with all the warmth of Deerfoot Mall and was ill placed being out of the walking area of downtown shoppers and the lunch time crowd.

London's succeded because it was right downtown so easily accessible to shoppers and dinners. It is relatively small with a sense of intimacy in a far more pleasing and inviting design both in and outside. It also flatly refused ANY chain stores/rest/services and the most a chain can have in the Market is a total of, I believe, 5 other stores. In other words only small local chains can set up shop meaning all of the outlets are independent and individually run.

It realized before hand that outside of it's downtown population nobody ever goes downtown to buy their groceries that they can just as easily get with free parking and lower prices at their local Loblaws or Metro. It was designed and maintained as part of the inner city with ongoing events and stores that you literally cannot find anywhere else. It is a destination unto itself due to being completely different and that is what makes it such a draw for both shoppers and event goers.

Eau Claire and Covenent Garden are proof that in today's retail market you have to find your niche because, especially downtown, if you try to cater to everyone you appeal to no one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #723  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 9:55 PM
WhipperSnapper's Avatar
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
I am the law!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto+
Posts: 16,428
I walked through the Shops at Aura today.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #724  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 1:01 AM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 5,706
I think the thing to watch for in the future is whether these big box stores on the outskirts of cities survive in the generation. Will they suffer the same problems as current malls where they were built to serve the customers of the time but as the cities spread further out and todays family housing empties out as the kids leave home {just like they did in our older suburbs of the 60s/70s/80s} will they also find themselves in areas where much of their shoppers leave the area?

As more young people head downtown/inner city, more gravitate to condos/apt and have fewer cars, more likely to take transit, more shop online, more turn their back on the large corporations and international capitalism, and an increasing seniors population who do not desire every latest gadget or fashion, it begs the question how will these big box stores survive? These big boxes rely on two main things..........a large population base and people willing to drive and/or having cars to get there. As seniors decrease their desire or even ability to drive greatly diminishes and young people choose to take transit, those potential shoppers will disappear and our big boxes of today maybe viewed in 2050 the same way we now view dead malls of the post-war times.

It seems laughable and even farcical to contemplate that today but in the 70s & 80s when malls were sprouting up and expanding at a furious rate, anyone who even mentioned the idea of malls becoming dead in 30 years would have been committed to the local psych ward.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #725  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 2:47 AM
wave46 wave46 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I think the thing to watch for in the future is whether these big box stores on the outskirts of cities survive in the generation. Will they suffer the same problems as current malls where they were built to serve the customers of the time but as the cities spread further out and todays family housing empties out as the kids leave home {just like they did in our older suburbs of the 60s/70s/80s} will they also find themselves in areas where much of their shoppers leave the area?

As more young people head downtown/inner city, more gravitate to condos/apt and have fewer cars, more likely to take transit, more shop online, more turn their back on the large corporations and international capitalism, and an increasing seniors population who do not desire every latest gadget or fashion, it begs the question how will these big box stores survive? These big boxes rely on two main things..........a large population base and people willing to drive and/or having cars to get there. As seniors decrease their desire or even ability to drive greatly diminishes and young people choose to take transit, those potential shoppers will disappear and our big boxes of today maybe viewed in 2050 the same way we now view dead malls of the post-war times.

It seems laughable and even farcical to contemplate that today but in the 70s & 80s when malls were sprouting up and expanding at a furious rate, anyone who even mentioned the idea of malls becoming dead in 30 years would have been committed to the local psych ward.
That, and as the internet makes getting pretty much exactly what you want possible (aside from perishables, such as groceries), you could be on to something.

Interesting to note that the 'retail apocalypse' of failing major retailers is occurring not in a recession, but in relative boom times. I think we've been over-retailed for some time now. Indeed, people in western countries have shifted away from shopping as a past time to consuming more 'experience' based items - hotels, airlines and tourism is doing quite well.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #726  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 2:53 AM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Tropic of Sir Galahad
Posts: 31,375
Covent Garden Market is one of the best things in London. One of the truly only things this city has gotten right. Maybe Western....Nah!


londontourism
__________________
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.Elie Wiesel
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #727  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 5:54 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Tropic of Sir Galahad
Posts: 31,375
I Spent 18 Hours in Canada's Strangest Mall (Vancouver's Kingsgate Mall)

Fascinatingly shitty. i would say it is Honeydale-ish, but the mall is mostly leased even if shitty.
__________________
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.Elie Wiesel
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #728  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 6:10 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Tropic of Sir Galahad
Posts: 31,375
We should come up with criteria for malls on the downswing.

Is it anchored by a liquidation mart and/or a discount food retailer (Food basics, no frills, Price Chopper, etc.)?
Did it used to have a Target, Walmart, or Zellers?
Is there an independent place that sells cardboard samosas (or cardboard pizza slices) that have been sitting under a hot lamp since Abe Lincoln was President, and also advertise "Fax" services and key cutting?
Are 20% of the stores selling cellphones, cellphone bling, and cellphone crap?
Is there a knock-off retail brand (e.g., Pizza Twice instead of Pizza Pizza?)?
Is the mall starting to fill with Dental clinics and places to get a prostate examination?
#1: Does the mall have a no-name, family-run dollar store ("Dollar-Valu", "Dollar Land", "Dollar Plus")?
Does the mall have those mechanical sofa chairs that take loonies for a massage?
Has at least one bank closed?
Are 50% or more of the customers seniors?
Does the place contain more than one place to buy hearing aids?
Have they drained the fountain at the mall centre and left it empty for years?
Do they advertise a "Mall Walkers" program (fitness for seniors by roaming the mall?)
If having a few remaining chain stores, are any/all of them Bentley/Ardene/The Source?
Does the mall's directory and/or website still list stores that have closed or moved away?
Does the mall contain empty storefronts papered over with signage saying "Coming soon!" (with no disclosure on what is coming soon) or "Exciting Retail opportunity!"
is there a flea market?
Is there a store that caters exclusively to Lord-of-the-Rings-obsessed losers, offering "the one ring", and "gollum's scat", and playing cards featuring fake nudes of Galadriel and Eowyn?
__________________
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.Elie Wiesel
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #729  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 6:23 PM
O-tacular's Avatar
O-tacular O-tacular is offline
Fake News
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 15,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
We should come up with criteria for malls on the downswing.

Is it anchored by a liquidation mart and/or a discount food retailer (Food basics, no frills, Price Chopper, etc.)?
Did it used to have a Target, Walmart, or Zellers?
Is there an independent place that sells cardboard samosas (or cardboard pizza slices) that have been sitting under a hot lamp since Abe Lincoln was President, and also advertise "Fax" services and key cutting?
Are 20% of the stores selling cellphones, cellphone bling, and cellphone crap?
Is there a knock-off retail brand (e.g., Pizza Twice instead of Pizza Pizza?)?
Is the mall starting to fill with Dental clinics and places to get a prostate examination?
#1: Does the mall have a no-name, family-run dollar store ("Dollar-Valu", "Dollar Land", "Dollar Plus")?
Does the mall have those mechanical sofa chairs that take loonies for a massage?
Has at least one bank closed?
Are 50% or more of the customers seniors?
Does the place contain more than one place to buy hearing aids?
Have they drained the fountain at the mall centre and left it empty for years?
Do they advertise a "Mall Walkers" program (fitness for seniors by roaming the mall?)
If having a few remaining chain stores, are any/all of them Bentley/Ardene/The Source?
Does the mall's directory and/or website still list stores that have closed or moved away?
Does the mall contain empty storefronts papered over with signage saying "Coming soon!" (with no disclosure on what is coming soon) or "Exciting Retail opportunity!"
is there a flea market?
Is there a store that caters exclusively to Lord-of-the-Rings-obsessed losers, offering "the one ring", and "gollum's scat", and playing cards featuring fake nudes of Galadriel and Eowyn?


Another criterion should be whether it still has a retail chain that has gone extinct everywhere else. Example: San Francisco.
__________________
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire

https://clockzillakingoflaval.tumblr.com
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #730  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 6:30 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Tropic of Sir Galahad
Posts: 31,375
You feel a little bit closer to death every time you visit this place

smartcanucks
__________________
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.Elie Wiesel
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #731  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 6:33 PM
WhipperSnapper's Avatar
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
I am the law!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto+
Posts: 16,428
Those still exist?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #732  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 6:37 PM
Proof Sheet Proof Sheet is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
We should come up with criteria for malls on the downswing.

Is it anchored by a liquidation mart and/or a discount food retailer (Food basics, no frills, Price Chopper, etc.)?
Did it used to have a Target, Walmart, or Zellers?
Is there an independent place that sells cardboard samosas (or cardboard pizza slices) that have been sitting under a hot lamp since Abe Lincoln was President, and also advertise "Fax" services and key cutting?
Are 20% of the stores selling cellphones, cellphone bling, and cellphone crap?
Is there a knock-off retail brand (e.g., Pizza Twice instead of Pizza Pizza?)?
Is the mall starting to fill with Dental clinics and places to get a prostate examination?
#1: Does the mall have a no-name, family-run dollar store ("Dollar-Valu", "Dollar Land", "Dollar Plus")?
Does the mall have those mechanical sofa chairs that take loonies for a massage?
Has at least one bank closed?
Are 50% or more of the customers seniors?
Does the place contain more than one place to buy hearing aids?
Have they drained the fountain at the mall centre and left it empty for years?
Do they advertise a "Mall Walkers" program (fitness for seniors by roaming the mall?)
If having a few remaining chain stores, are any/all of them Bentley/Ardene/The Source?
Does the mall's directory and/or website still list stores that have closed or moved away?
Does the mall contain empty storefronts papered over with signage saying "Coming soon!" (with no disclosure on what is coming soon) or "Exciting Retail opportunity!"
is there a flea market?
Is there a store that caters exclusively to Lord-of-the-Rings-obsessed losers, offering "the one ring", and "gollum's scat", and playing cards featuring fake nudes of Galadriel and Eowyn?
What about one of those seasonal calendar stores occupying an actual store location not just a place in the middle of the mall.

If the mall is in Canada and has a Kenny Rogers Roastery not a good sign.

The mall closest to me has the usual cell phone related stores but has had for the last 3 or so years a music store basically just selling LP's and DVD's and seems to be doing well. As soon as it opened I said to my wife 'I give that place 6 months at best'. They have defied my low expectations.

If the only thing that has occurred in the vacant Zellers/Target space is an occasional craft market then that isn't a good sign.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #733  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 6:58 PM
manny_santos's Avatar
manny_santos manny_santos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Willowdale
Posts: 3,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I think the thing to watch for in the future is whether these big box stores on the outskirts of cities survive in the generation. Will they suffer the same problems as current malls where they were built to serve the customers of the time but as the cities spread further out and todays family housing empties out as the kids leave home {just like they did in our older suburbs of the 60s/70s/80s} will they also find themselves in areas where much of their shoppers leave the area?

As more young people head downtown/inner city, more gravitate to condos/apt and have fewer cars, more likely to take transit, more shop online, more turn their back on the large corporations and international capitalism, and an increasing seniors population who do not desire every latest gadget or fashion, it begs the question how will these big box stores survive? These big boxes rely on two main things..........a large population base and people willing to drive and/or having cars to get there. As seniors decrease their desire or even ability to drive greatly diminishes and young people choose to take transit, those potential shoppers will disappear and our big boxes of today maybe viewed in 2050 the same way we now view dead malls of the post-war times.

It seems laughable and even farcical to contemplate that today but in the 70s & 80s when malls were sprouting up and expanding at a furious rate, anyone who even mentioned the idea of malls becoming dead in 30 years would have been committed to the local psych ward.
It's hard to say. I think that in larger cities like Toronto, where there is a definite trend towards people living downtown compared with previous generations, this will be the case. However in highly car-dependent smaller cities, I think they will still dominate. Suburban people don't mind long trips to go buy a loaf of bread or a light bulb.

At the same time I think that online retail is a much bigger threat to big box bricks-and-mortar retail than where people physically live.
__________________
Help control the pet population, have your pets spayed or neutered.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #734  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 7:55 PM
manny_santos's Avatar
manny_santos manny_santos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Willowdale
Posts: 3,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
We should come up with criteria for malls on the downswing.

Is it anchored by a liquidation mart and/or a discount food retailer (Food basics, no frills, Price Chopper, etc.)?
Did it used to have a Target, Walmart, or Zellers?
Is there an independent place that sells cardboard samosas (or cardboard pizza slices) that have been sitting under a hot lamp since Abe Lincoln was President, and also advertise "Fax" services and key cutting?
Are 20% of the stores selling cellphones, cellphone bling, and cellphone crap?
Is there a knock-off retail brand (e.g., Pizza Twice instead of Pizza Pizza?)?
Is the mall starting to fill with Dental clinics and places to get a prostate examination?
#1: Does the mall have a no-name, family-run dollar store ("Dollar-Valu", "Dollar Land", "Dollar Plus")?
Does the mall have those mechanical sofa chairs that take loonies for a massage?
Has at least one bank closed?
Are 50% or more of the customers seniors?
Does the place contain more than one place to buy hearing aids?
Have they drained the fountain at the mall centre and left it empty for years?
Do they advertise a "Mall Walkers" program (fitness for seniors by roaming the mall?)
If having a few remaining chain stores, are any/all of them Bentley/Ardene/The Source?
Does the mall's directory and/or website still list stores that have closed or moved away?
Does the mall contain empty storefronts papered over with signage saying "Coming soon!" (with no disclosure on what is coming soon) or "Exciting Retail opportunity!"
is there a flea market?
Is there a store that caters exclusively to Lord-of-the-Rings-obsessed losers, offering "the one ring", and "gollum's scat", and playing cards featuring fake nudes of Galadriel and Eowyn?
Add to the list, does it contain coin operated kiddie rides?

Elgin Mall in St. Thomas has them, and London's late Oakridge Mall had them in its final years.
__________________
Help control the pet population, have your pets spayed or neutered.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #735  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 7:58 PM
WhipperSnapper's Avatar
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
I am the law!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto+
Posts: 16,428
Trends eventually end. The same was said in the 1980s during the last big condo boom. There wouldn't be as much suburban, autocentric condo development if this was a fundamental shift towards the future. Mind you. Millennials are the polar opposite the Boomers' generation but, there's no telling the direction of the Millennials' offsprings.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #736  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 8:03 PM
Vorkuta's Avatar
Vorkuta Vorkuta is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Posts: 1,219
"Dead Mall Bingo" anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport
Is it anchored by a liquidation mart and/or a discount food retailer (Food basics, no frills, Price Chopper, etc.)?
Did it used to have a Target, Walmart, or Zellers?
Is there an independent place that sells cardboard samosas (or cardboard pizza slices) that have been sitting under a hot lamp since Abe Lincoln was President, and also advertise "Fax" services and key cutting?
Are 20% of the stores selling cellphones, cellphone bling, and cellphone crap?
Is there a knock-off retail brand (e.g., Pizza Twice instead of Pizza Pizza?)?
Is the mall starting to fill with Dental clinics and places to get a prostate examination?
#1: Does the mall have a no-name, family-run dollar store ("Dollar-Valu", "Dollar Land", "Dollar Plus")?
Does the mall have those mechanical sofa chairs that take loonies for a massage?
Has at least one bank closed?
Are 50% or more of the customers seniors?
Does the place contain more than one place to buy hearing aids?
Have they drained the fountain at the mall centre and left it empty for years?
Do they advertise a "Mall Walkers" program (fitness for seniors by roaming the mall?)
If having a few remaining chain stores, are any/all of them Bentley/Ardene/The Source?
Does the mall's directory and/or website still list stores that have closed or moved away?
Does the mall contain empty storefronts papered over with signage saying "Coming soon!" (with no disclosure on what is coming soon) or "Exciting Retail opportunity!"
is there a flea market?
Is there a store that caters exclusively to Lord-of-the-Rings-obsessed losers, offering "the one ring", and "gollum's scat", and playing cards featuring fake nudes of Galadriel and Eowyn?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #737  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 8:13 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is online now
Think about Winnipeg.
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,899
^ Is the only place with a line the lottery kiosk? Does a government office or social service occupy one or more of the retail units?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #738  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 9:16 PM
Jaws Jaws is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Is the only place with a line the lottery kiosk? Does a government office or social service occupy one or more of the retail units?
Exactly. We got my sister from the Billings Bridge Mall in Ottawa. That's where the provincial adoption office was. Is it a dying mall?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #739  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 9:26 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Tropic of Sir Galahad
Posts: 31,375
Long dead Superstore Mall, London




all photos c/o cedric R

ancient history:
__________________
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.Elie Wiesel
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #740  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2018, 9:47 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is online now
Think about Winnipeg.
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaws View Post
Exactly. We got my sister from the Billings Bridge Mall in Ottawa. That's where the provincial adoption office was. Is it a dying mall?
Does your sister know you got her at Billings Bridge?
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:47 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.