HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #5001  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 10:41 PM
Jaws Jaws is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Yup, there are ambitious Canadians, just none in Canada.

If you have dreams, you typically have to leave Canada to bring them to fruition.
Absolute bullshit.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5002  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 11:00 PM
GreaterMontréal's Avatar
GreaterMontréal GreaterMontréal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaws View Post
Absolute bullshit.
I agree

Ontario and Quebec are doing really good.

Quebec Q3 2017 , PE $3.9B , YOY 530%
__________________
There's only so much fortune a man needs and the rest is just for showing off.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5003  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 11:31 PM
saffronleaf saffronleaf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaws View Post
Absolute bullshit.
Have you looked at high end economic opportunities elsewhere?

Canada is great if you want to be involved in extracting natural resources or if you want to work in a mid-tier job like as a cashier at Tim Hortons.

But as far as higher end economic opportunity, there's not much on offer.

It's not surprising given the anemic population and what kind of activities (and the scale thereof) it can support.

I love my country but I hope it manages to provide some higher-end economic opportunities, things our kids can dream about.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5004  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 11:35 PM
GreaterMontréal's Avatar
GreaterMontréal GreaterMontréal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Have you looked at high end economic opportunities elsewhere?

Canada is great if you want to be involved in extracting natural resources or if you want to work in a mid-tier job like as a cashier at Tim Hortons.

But as far as higher end economic opportunity, there's not much on offer.

It's not surprising given the anemic population and what kind of activities (and the scale thereof) it can support.

I love my country but I hope it manages to provide some higher-end economic opportunities, things our kids can dream about.
what is higher-end ?
__________________
There's only so much fortune a man needs and the rest is just for showing off.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5005  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 12:50 AM
jmt18325's Avatar
jmt18325 jmt18325 is offline
Heart of the Continent
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 6,279
Of course, that leaves aside things like mining, insurance, banking - all very big in Canada.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5006  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 12:59 AM
mistercorporate's Avatar
mistercorporate mistercorporate is offline
The Fruit of Discipline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,559
Canada has plenty of jobs in the $250,000-$1 million range, not sure what he's talking about. In the US you also have to earn a lot more because if you get sick, you're screwed (even with insurance). It doesn't matter if you earn $250,000 in the States and have health insurance, if you get cancer, you're f%*ked financially. Health insurance typically only covers 80% of expenses. It's not unusual for someone to have full coverage yet have to pay $3000 for a CT scan that would normally be covered in Canada under provincial health insurance. There's a reason why Canadians live longer than Americans, and that gap is growing (life expectancy in the US actually declined again last year).
__________________

Tosin007: "I know I need to get laid"
WhipperSnapper: "My seriousness is simply a veil hiding a true comedic genius."
OutOfTowner: "I live in Villeray - a block from Marché Jean Talon. And my choice of hairstyle is none of your business."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5007  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 1:04 AM
Jaws Jaws is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmt18325 View Post
Of course, that leaves aside things like mining, insurance, banking - all very big in Canada.
Cannabis.... but seriously, anybody who is truly ambitious can succeed despite the perceived barriers in this country . Canada does have limited opportunities when compared to the US. But, the US has the largest economy the world has ever known so it’s not a fair fight. I know plenty of monetarily successful people who built their fortunes in this country. Those who think otherwise are perpetuating the classic Canadian inferiority complex.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5008  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 1:34 AM
theodore123abc theodore123abc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Yup, there are ambitious Canadians, just none in Canada.

If you have dreams, you typically have to leave Canada to bring them to fruition.
Hahaha dude where do you live that you don't see successful Canadians here in Canada? I personally know very successful Canadians who make a very pretty penny as I'm sure at least a few other ssp forumers do. In fact I know a few Americans who moved here because of opportunities, they make well into the 6 figures. You should get out more.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5009  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 4:05 AM
Me&You Me&You is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodore123abc View Post
Hahaha dude where do you live that you don't see successful Canadians here in Canada? I personally know very successful Canadians who make a very pretty penny as I'm sure at least a few other ssp forumers do. In fact I know a few Americans who moved here because of opportunities, they make well into the 6 figures. You should get out more.
I'm sure this will be met with scorn, especially on this forum, but there is a very real and distinct difference between "making well into the 6 figures" and truly "higher end economic opportunities".

One is a level of income, most likely salaried, that likely affords the earner a comfortable lifestyle. Though maybe not, depending on where they live and their familial situation.

"Higher end economic opportunities" would be a combination of factors that allow for true wealth to be generated and accumulated, most likely not through salary, but rather growth of equity value.

I know we've been down this road before, but one area where there are fewer "higher end economic opportunities" in Canada relative to the US is in the medical field. There are very few opportunities for Doctors in Canada to become truly wealthy, whereas in the US, a relatively large segment of medical professionals have many more "higher end economic opportunities" to generate wealth. I wouldn't trade the Canadian system for the US' in a million years, but from the perspective of economic opportunity, it's not even close.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5010  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 4:12 AM
GreaterMontréal's Avatar
GreaterMontréal GreaterMontréal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me&You View Post
I'm sure this will be met with scorn, especially on this forum, but there is a very real and distinct difference between "making well into the 6 figures" and truly "higher end economic opportunities".

One is a level of income, most likely salaried, that likely affords the earner a comfortable lifestyle. Though maybe not, depending on where they live and their familial situation.

"Higher end economic opportunities" would be a combination of factors that allow for true wealth to be generated and accumulated, most likely not through salary, but rather growth of equity value.

I know we've been down this road before, but one area where there are fewer "higher end economic opportunities" in Canada relative to the US is in the medical field. There are very few opportunities for Doctors in Canada to become truly wealthy, whereas in the US, a relatively large segment of medical professionals have many more "higher end economic opportunities" to generate wealth. I wouldn't trade the Canadian system for the US' in a million years, but from the perspective of economic opportunity, it's not even close.
a lot of doctors in Quebec choose to work less hours, even if it means making less money.
__________________
There's only so much fortune a man needs and the rest is just for showing off.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5011  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 4:22 AM
Architype's Avatar
Architype Architype is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me&You View Post
I'm sure this will be met with scorn, especially on this forum, but there is a very real and distinct difference between "making well into the 6 figures" and truly "higher end economic opportunities".

One is a level of income, most likely salaried, that likely affords the earner a comfortable lifestyle. Though maybe not, depending on where they live and their familial situation.

"Higher end economic opportunities" would be a combination of factors that allow for true wealth to be generated and accumulated, most likely not through salary, but rather growth of equity value.

I know we've been down this road before, but one area where there are fewer "higher end economic opportunities" in Canada relative to the US is in the medical field. There are very few opportunities for Doctors in Canada to become truly wealthy, whereas in the US, a relatively large segment of medical professionals have many more "higher end economic opportunities" to generate wealth. I wouldn't trade the Canadian system for the US' in a million years, but from the perspective of economic opportunity, it's not even close.
These "higher end economic opportunities" are also a function of greater income inequality, something that is not particularly great for political stability. In that way, Canada is somewhat better.

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/De...nequality.aspx
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5012  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 5:21 AM
Hackslack Hackslack is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 650
Per CBC, more than 2 million vehicles sold in Canada for the first time ever, thanks to record sales of trucks. Not sure what percentage of those are Electric Vehicles. Good news for Ontario and the rest of Canada.

Canada continues to very much depend on oil as an energy source.

Despite all the rhetoric of Canada combating global warming, there is nothing but praise for this outstanding year for record sales of automobiles, the worst emitter of GHG's. Should we expect to hear from our PM or Environment Minister denouncing this achievement, in the name of saving the environment?

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4471837

Last edited by Hackslack; Jan 4, 2018 at 5:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5013  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 7:24 AM
saffronleaf saffronleaf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,743
First off, I want to apologize for being a jerk above.

I think the average Canadian lives a happier and healthier life than the average American. I think the Canadian lower and middle classes are happier and healthier.

But on the higher end of economic opportunities, there are limitations. And these limitations explain why Canada has a fairly high percentage of expats compared to other developed countries.

Examples:
1. Imagine you're a corporate lawyer and you do securities work. The biggest law firms are in the US and the most sophisticated securities work happens in the US. Corporate lawyers in securities help with things like IPOs and follow-on offerings of equity and/or debt. So being in a country where you have the NYSE and Nasdaq is obviously very important if you're doing offerings. The TSX is a relatively sizable stock exchange, but the US domestic market + most international companies want to, justifiably, list on the NYSE or Nasdaq instead of TSX. Even some companies that do list on the TSX will typically cross-list on the NYSE or Nasdaq. So the quality of work is better and, of course, if you're in one of these firms, the pay is about 2.5x what you'd find in an equivalent firm in Toronto.

2. Let's say you're interested in working for a policy think tank. The biggest and best policy think tanks are outside of Canada. Sadly, Canada's think tanks are generally underfunded, understaffed and generally have little influence. The US and UK have a few giants in this area.

3. People who want to do scientific research. Obviously top Canadian universities do excellent research and there are in fact things you'll probably find that are the best in Canada. But that said, other, larger countries tend to have even more areas in which their schools do the best research.

4. If you're an aspiring music artist or an actor, I would think LA has more to offer.

5. If you're all about startups and tech, I would think the Bay Area has more to offer.

Last edited by saffronleaf; Jan 4, 2018 at 7:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5014  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 7:25 AM
saffronleaf saffronleaf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
Canada has plenty of jobs in the $250,000-$1 million range, not sure what he's talking about. In the US you also have to earn a lot more because if you get sick, you're screwed (even with insurance). It doesn't matter if you earn $250,000 in the States and have health insurance, if you get cancer, you're f%*ked financially. Health insurance typically only covers 80% of expenses. It's not unusual for someone to have full coverage yet have to pay $3000 for a CT scan that would normally be covered in Canada under provincial health insurance. There's a reason why Canadians live longer than Americans, and that gap is growing (life expectancy in the US actually declined again last year).
I agree.

I think Canada is the better country overall.

I just feel like there are some career-related limitations. But there are other, more important ways, in which Canada is better. And Canada is kind of different culturally and socially, in ways I like (presumably because I was steeped in it).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5015  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 7:34 AM
saffronleaf saffronleaf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me&You View Post
I'm sure this will be met with scorn, especially on this forum, but there is a very real and distinct difference between "making well into the 6 figures" and truly "higher end economic opportunities".

One is a level of income, most likely salaried, that likely affords the earner a comfortable lifestyle. Though maybe not, depending on where they live and their familial situation.

"Higher end economic opportunities" would be a combination of factors that allow for true wealth to be generated and accumulated, most likely not through salary, but rather growth of equity value.

I know we've been down this road before, but one area where there are fewer "higher end economic opportunities" in Canada relative to the US is in the medical field. There are very few opportunities for Doctors in Canada to become truly wealthy, whereas in the US, a relatively large segment of medical professionals have many more "higher end economic opportunities" to generate wealth. I wouldn't trade the Canadian system for the US' in a million years, but from the perspective of economic opportunity, it's not even close.
That's pretty interesting.

Just to be clear though, when I meant "high end economic opportunities", I just meant more normal things like being an associate at a big law firm or top consultancy firms or investment banks.

I think six figures is a lot personally. It's just that the same job you can do at a big law firm in the US for like $180K USD will be like $100K CAD in Canada. With a higher COL unless you're living in SF or small town Canada. That kinda stings. Plus depending on the industry, your clients might be more interesting, bigger, doing more sophisticated things.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5016  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 7:45 AM
Nicko999's Avatar
Nicko999 Nicko999 is offline
Go Preds!
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 16,277
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
First off, I want to apologize for being a jerk above. I'm in the US on a work visa and I want to come back to Canada and I will. It's just frustrating as hell when you look at the enormous differences in salary and even the quality of matters you can work on.

I think the average Canadian lives a happier and healthier life than the average American. I think the Canadian lower and middle classes are happier and healthier.

But on the higher end of economic opportunities, there are limitations. And these limitations explain why Canada has a fairly high percentage of expats compared to other developed countries.

Examples:
1. I'm a corporate lawyer, I do securities work. The biggest law firms are in the US and the most sophisticated securities work happens in the US. I help with things like IPOs and follow-on offerings of equity and/or debt. So being in a country where you have the NYSE and Nasdaq is obviously very important if you're doing offerings. The TSX is a relatively sizable stock exchange, but the US domestic market + most international companies want to, justifiably, list on the NYSE or Nasdaq instead of TSX. Even some companies that do list on the TSX will typically cross-list on the NYSE or Nasdaq. So the quality of work is better and, of course, if you're in one of these firms, the pay is about 2.5x what you'd find in an equivalent firm in Toronto. Just to be clear, I don't make all that much, but a pay cut of that proportion still hurts.

2. Another area of interest I've been looking into is working for a policy think tank. The biggest and best policy think tanks are outside of Canada. Sadly, Canada's think tanks are generally underfunded, understaffed and generally have little influence. The US and UK have a few giants in this area.

3. People who want to do scientific research. Obviously top Canadian universities do excellent research and there are in fact things you'll probably find that are the best in Canada. But that said, other, larger countries tend to have even more areas in which their schools do the best research.

4. If you're an aspiring music artist or an actor, I would think LA has more to offer.

5. If you're all about startups and tech, I would think the Bay Area has more to offer.
I agree. I will also add the higher income taxes in Canada as well.

Like a professor in 1 of my classes said one day: We are always fucked up when it comes to taxes (referring to the US).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5017  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 7:59 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lévis, QC
Posts: 19,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
You are simply wrong. Canadians are every bit as ambitious as anywhere else. The problem is our most ambitious tend to go where the opportunity is - silicon valley. There are many many many Canadians who have started companies down there and been very successful.
And they almost have no choice. As I mentioned here already I have had firsthand experience of a startup those past few years and venture capital was so difficult to find that I ended up having to risk more $ directly than I would have wished (it was that or the project was probably going belly up at that point for lack of anyone willing to put money in it).

In retrospect we should have relocated the two main founders (and driving force behind the project) to the U.S. and started the company in an environment where capital is available. In fact even now, though it's too late to move the company at this point, we're actually not even out of the woods yet, in terms of finances.

(I'm sure you'll recall we had those conversations already but it's still worth pointing out for others; my experience totally matches yours there.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5018  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 8:30 AM
saffronleaf saffronleaf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
I agree. I will also add the higher income taxes in Canada as well.

Like a professor in 1 of my classes said one day: We are always fucked up when it comes to taxes (referring to the US).
Lol you quoted me before I could edit it for oversharing personal information. All good.

But surprisingly for my wages income taxes are very similar. I mean it might be different for others of course. If it's just salary it's about the same if you're in a high tax state, and high tax states are the most desirable generally (NY and Calif for example).

But on the business side and for investors I have no clue.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5019  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 1:26 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Monsieur Sainte-Nitouche
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 32,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Lol you quoted me before I could edit it for oversharing personal information. All good.

But surprisingly for my wages income taxes are very similar. I mean it might be different for others of course. If it's just salary it's about the same if you're in a high tax state, and high tax states are the most desirable generally (NY and Calif for example).

But on the business side and for investors I have no clue.
Canada is actually very competitive in terms of business and corporate tax rates, including vs. the U.S. We're among the better countries across the OECD.

Personal income tax rates can vary tremendously across the U.S., but as you say in the more desirable states that offer high economic opportunity they tend to be on the high side - probably not as high as in Canada but no great bargain compared to here.

Of course consumption taxes are considerably lower than in Canada pretty much all across the U.S. so this does affect people's bottom line a lot as well. Add to this the fact that pre-tax prices in the U.S. are often already lower than in Canada simply due to economies of scale...
__________________
A pox on both your houses.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5020  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 2:49 PM
FFX-ME's Avatar
FFX-ME FFX-ME is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
First off, I want to apologize for being a jerk above.

I think the average Canadian lives a happier and healthier life than the average American. I think the Canadian lower and middle classes are happier and healthier.

But on the higher end of economic opportunities, there are limitations. And these limitations explain why Canada has a fairly high percentage of expats compared to other developed countries.

Examples:
1. Imagine you're a corporate lawyer and you do securities work. The biggest law firms are in the US and the most sophisticated securities work happens in the US. Corporate lawyers in securities help with things like IPOs and follow-on offerings of equity and/or debt. So being in a country where you have the NYSE and Nasdaq is obviously very important if you're doing offerings. The TSX is a relatively sizable stock exchange, but the US domestic market + most international companies want to, justifiably, list on the NYSE or Nasdaq instead of TSX. Even some companies that do list on the TSX will typically cross-list on the NYSE or Nasdaq. So the quality of work is better and, of course, if you're in one of these firms, the pay is about 2.5x what you'd find in an equivalent firm in Toronto.

2. Let's say you're interested in working for a policy think tank. The biggest and best policy think tanks are outside of Canada. Sadly, Canada's think tanks are generally underfunded, understaffed and generally have little influence. The US and UK have a few giants in this area.

3. People who want to do scientific research. Obviously top Canadian universities do excellent research and there are in fact things you'll probably find that are the best in Canada. But that said, other, larger countries tend to have even more areas in which their schools do the best research.

4. If you're an aspiring music artist or an actor, I would think LA has more to offer.

5. If you're all about startups and tech, I would think the Bay Area has more to offer.
I can comment on this point given that I have been, and am, involved in scientific research in both Canada and the U.S. Overall this point is not very true. Generally in the U.S. you can get larger grants to fund your research but you also need to fund the salary and benefits of your students and scientists through this grant whereas in Canada the benefits are provided by the government (with institutions offering additional benefits) and a good chunk of your students have scholarships are are thus essentially free. In that respect Canada and the U.S. are on a pretty even playing field in scientific research. Now, it is true that when people start looking for jobs, due to the size of the markets, they may see 20 jobs in the U.S. they could apply for but only 2 in Canada. This of course leads to talented individuals leaving Canada to work in the U.S. or overseas but there is a balance, since foreigners also apply for jobs in Canada.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:47 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.