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  #15461  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Black Star View Post
^ Just like a good left wing Liberal...Facts elude you. But Emotions and hurt feeling are your guide. Its so old.



583c8ee3ba6eb620008b6738-1200 by BLACK STAR III, on Flickr


A Few Rust belt States huh...lol. If any voter is swayed by an AD! You better call it a day!

What's scary is that anyone would actually think this!! Unreal.

So the Russians were also in the voting booths...

Russian/America comrades vote trump or else!

This Rat Clinton was and is her own worst enemy. End of story.

The world is a better place this woman is nowhere near this kind of power.
Nice map. You do understand their system works with an electoral college and heavily favours rural voters right? Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million votes.

That last line says it all. The world is better off with an unstable sociopathic scam artist threatening nuclear war by tweet than if a woman were elected president.

Also, Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio were rust belt states that swung red from blue over the tiniest of margins and were heavily targeted by Russian hackers spreading fake news on Facebook. Robert Mueller is currently investigating Michigan and Wisconsin for election interference right now.
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Last edited by O-tacular; Jan 3, 2018 at 7:35 PM.
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  #15462  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
Nice map. You do understand their system works with an electoral college and heavily favours rural voters right? Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million votes.

That last line says it all. The world is a better place with an unstable sociopathic scam artist threatening nuclear war by tweet than if a woman were elected president.

Also, Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio were rust belt states that swung red from blue over the tiniest of margins and were heavily targeted by Russian hackers spreading fake news on Facebook. Robert Mueller is currently investigating Michigan and Wisconsin for actual election rigging right now.
You sound like joy behar from the View.....But...But she won the popular vote....It means shit.


No...you don't seem to understand this system, and how it was set up to keep the entire population of the U.S represented fairly.

Here ya go brah....

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...doXSQzALRAiu8j
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  #15463  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Black Star View Post
You sound like joy behar from the View.....But...But she won the popular vote....It means shit.


No...you don't seem to understand this system, and how it was set up to keep the entire population of the U.S represented fairly.

Here ya go brah....

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...doXSQzALRAiu8j
I’m confused by you posting a link to a system I already explained.

And another thing...

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  #15464  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 8:10 PM
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How do you know you're not his "bra"?

If you guys met up in a bar sometime, political inclinations aside, you might get along pretty well.

It's not as if conservatives and liberals (note small caps) are natural enemies. If you both ended up in the same foxhole in WW2 you might be besties.......
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  #15465  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Black Star View Post
You sound like joy behar from the View.....But...But she won the popular vote....It means shit.


No...you don't seem to understand this system, and how it was set up to keep the entire population of the U.S represented fairly.

Here ya go brah....

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...doXSQzALRAiu8j
One person one vote. It doesn't get fairer than that.

Rewarding uneducated hicks who stay glued to their oxy and mobile homes in Buttf*ck Kentucky with a weightier vote in an election thanks to anachronisms like the electoral college is not "fair".
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  #15466  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 9:35 PM
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Rewarding uneducated hicks who stay glued to their oxy and mobile homes in Buttf*ck Kentucky with a weightier vote in an election thanks to anachronisms like the electoral college is not "fair".
1) - Are you implying that "uneducated hicks" are not worthwhile members of society? Your response smacks of liberal elitism of the worst kind. This is the problem with liberal elites - the fact that they feel somehow more worthy than their peers and that only they can and should wield the levers of power in this world. This type of attitude is also inherently paternalistic in the sense that it implies that elites "know better' and this counts for more than any common sense that may exist outside the hallowed halls of academe.

A military example of this mindset would be the newly minted lieutenant from RMC leading his company into battle for the first time without taking into consideration the opinion of the company sergeant major. Nothing good would come from this kind of approach, yet this is what you frequently see coming out of Ottawa with civil servants who delight in employing a bureaucratic top down approach to solving local issues in departments like Fisheries and Aboriginal Affairs without considering the opinions of end users. No wonder Ottawa is seen as an ongoing conduit of failure by the hapless recipients of federal largesse. As they say, one of the most feared comments one can hear is "I'm from the government and I'm here to help"..........

2) - One of the reasons why rural areas are given more weight in the electoral process is so that rural issues aren't ignored at the expense of issues affecting large nearby metropolitan areas. Joe from Lower Southwest Mushaboom may not care about a new local community arts centre in downtown Halifax, but he certainly does care if the road to his house gets graded every spring after the frost comes out. If his riding had exactly the same electoral weight as a core urban riding, he would be lumped in with Guysborough, rural Antigonish County and maybe parts of southern Cape Breton. This would equal the same population as a 20 square block area of peninsular Halifax but encompass well over 1000 sq km. How will his voice be heard in his geographically large riding? His local MLA might live 100 km away and have no experience with Joe's community. Is this fair?

Nobody wants to see "rotten boroughs", but there is a balance to be achieved between the geographic size of a riding and the population of a riding. Surely the most insular of urban dwellers can see this point.........
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  #15467  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post


How do you know you're not his "bra"?

If you guys met up in a bar sometime, political inclinations aside, you might get along pretty well.

It's not as if conservatives and liberals (note small caps) are natural enemies. If you both ended up in the same foxhole in WW2 you might be besties.......
Well he does also like Zoolander so he can't be all bad. Misguided though.
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  #15468  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
1) - Are you implying that "uneducated hicks" are not worthwhile members of society? Your response smacks of liberal elitism of the worst kind. This is the problem with liberal elites - the fact that they feel somehow more worthy than their peers and that only they can and should wield the levers of power in this world. This type of attitude is also inherently paternalistic in the sense that it implies that elites "know better' and this counts for more than any common sense that may exist outside the hallowed halls of academe.
Actually he was just saying that the votes of the 'liberal elites' who live in cities should count the same as the 'rural hicks'. Currently the urban parts of the U.S. are disenfranchised. And this doesn't even touch on the ridiculous gerrymandering the Republicans are guilty of.

Quote:
2) - One of the reasons why rural areas are given more weight in the electoral process is so that rural issues aren't ignored at the expense of issues affecting large nearby metropolitan areas. Joe from Lower Southwest Mushaboom may not care about a new local community arts centre in downtown Halifax, but he certainly does care if the road to his house gets graded every spring after the frost comes out. If his riding had exactly the same electoral weight as a core urban riding, he would be lumped in with Guysborough, rural Antigonish County and maybe parts of southern Cape Breton. This would equal the same population as a 20 square block area of peninsular Halifax but encompass well over 1000 sq km. How will his voice be heard in his geographically large riding? His local MLA might live 100 km away and have no experience with Joe's community. Is this fair?

Nobody wants to see "rotten boroughs", but there is a balance to be achieved between the geographic size of a riding and the population of a riding. Surely the most insular of urban dwellers can see this point.........
This is a good explanation of the logic for it but in light of George Dubya's win and now Trump's even more unpopular presidency where both lost the popular vote yet were able to ham fistedly ram through polarizing and downright dangerous policies it begs the question of whether this system is still serving the people. Currently it seems like the major population centres of the United States are being held hostage by rural, confederate flag waving morons who vote simply to screw over the "liberal elites" in cities. Consequences be damned.
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Last edited by O-tacular; Jan 3, 2018 at 11:56 PM.
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  #15469  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
Actually he was just saying that the votes of the 'liberal elites' who live in cities should count the same as the 'rural hicks'. Currently the urban part of the U.S. is disenfranchised. And this doesn't even touch on the ridiculous gerrymandering the Republicans are guilty of.
I don't know if VOX is a reputable reference but this is what they said.

https://www.vox.com/cards/gerrymande...ho-gerrymander

Are Republicans the only ones who gerrymander?
Of course not. Throughout US history, both major parties have attempted to gain electoral advantage through the redistricting process. But since state legislatures and governors handle redistricting in almost every state, a party needs to win those seats before it can gerrymander.

The final election before our last redistricting was 2010, when Republicans won massively across the country. When redistricting began the following year, Republicans controlled most governor's mansions, and had full or partial control of most state legislatures. Indeed, there were only 11 states in the country where Democrats controlled both houses of the legislature and the governorship — and two of those states, California and Washington, hand redistricting off to independent commissions. So the GOP simply had more opportunities to gerrymander this time around than the Democrats did.

Additionally, many of the Republican takeovers occurred in important "swing" states that are usually fairly evenly divided between the parties, such as Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida, as well as some Democratic-leaning states like Michigan and Pennsylvania. This provided many opportunities for partisan gerrymandering that turned split House delegations into clear Republican majorities.

Still, the Democrats did attempt to take advantage of gerrymandering opportunities in Maryland and Illinois. In Maryland, a GOP representative's district was effectively eliminated, and the Democrats won seven of the state's eight seats. In Illinois, the Democrats drew a map that allowed the Democrats to pick up four seats, in what the Christian Science Monitor called "Democrats' most bold redistricting play in decades." This new map ended the careers of several Republican incumbents, but since Democrats won 58 percent of the House vote in the state and ended up with 67 percent of the seats, the discrepancy between votes and seats doesn't make it as effective a redistricting as some of the others on the list.
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  #15470  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 12:26 AM
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If we're dealing with the US form of gerrymandering, then yes, it is tantamount to electoral fraud given the extreme bizarre shapes of some electoral districts. Both parties down there may do it, but the Republicans take it to a high art form, and this practice does tend to subvert the electoral process.

Redistribution in Canada is much more fair. It is carried out by independent commissions working within accepted guidelines and the riding boundaries tend to make geographic sense, taking into consideration linguistic groupings, commonality of interest, and population (within a certain range). Rural ridings tend to be a little less populous than urban ridings, but again, this is because there is a feeling that rural ridings shouldn't be so geographically large as to render them unmanageable.

In Nova Scotia for example, a lot of ridings tend to follow county boundaries (if possible), with two ridings geographically constructed to favour Acadian representation and a third riding constructed to give an African Nova Scotian a fair chance of being elected. They do all this at the same time that they try and keep each riding within a certain population range. It's a fine art.

The American system is just nuts.
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  #15471  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
1) - Are you implying that "uneducated hicks" are not worthwhile members of society? Your response smacks of liberal elitism of the worst kind. This is the problem with liberal elites - the fact that they feel somehow more worthy than their peers and that only they can and should wield the levers of power in this world. This type of attitude is also inherently paternalistic in the sense that it implies that elites "know better' and this counts for more than any common sense that may exist outside the hallowed halls of academe.

A military example of this mindset would be the newly minted lieutenant from RMC leading his company into battle for the first time without taking into consideration the opinion of the company sergeant major. Nothing good would come from this kind of approach, yet this is what you frequently see coming out of Ottawa with civil servants who delight in employing a bureaucratic top down approach to solving local issues in departments like Fisheries and Aboriginal Affairs without considering the opinions of end users. No wonder Ottawa is seen as an ongoing conduit of failure by the hapless recipients of federal largesse. As they say, one of the most feared comments one can hear is "I'm from the government and I'm here to help"..........

2) - One of the reasons why rural areas are given more weight in the electoral process is so that rural issues aren't ignored at the expense of issues affecting large nearby metropolitan areas. Joe from Lower Southwest Mushaboom may not care about a new local community arts centre in downtown Halifax, but he certainly does care if the road to his house gets graded every spring after the frost comes out. If his riding had exactly the same electoral weight as a core urban riding, he would be lumped in with Guysborough, rural Antigonish County and maybe parts of southern Cape Breton. This would equal the same population as a 20 square block area of peninsular Halifax but encompass well over 1000 sq km. How will his voice be heard in his geographically large riding? His local MLA might live 100 km away and have no experience with Joe's community. Is this fair?

Nobody wants to see "rotten boroughs", but there is a balance to be achieved between the geographic size of a riding and the population of a riding. Surely the most insular of urban dwellers can see this point.........
If the majority of voters live in cities than they should not be penalized by some arcane, antiquated idea of an agrarian society.

And you should try looking up the definition of elite sometime. It is only the backward who would argue that the best or most educated shouldn't be ruling. I've bolded some parts to help you out on the concept.

a singular or plural in construction : the choice part : cream the elite of the entertainment world
b singular or plural in construction : the best of a class
superachievers
who dominate the computer elite —Marilyn Chase
c singular or plural in construction : the socially superior part of society
how the French-speaking elite … was changing—Economist
d : a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence members of the ruling elite
e : a member of such an elite —usually used in plural
the elites …, pursuing their studies in Europe —Robert Wernick

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/elite
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  #15472  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 1:09 AM
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Last edited by Doug; Jan 4, 2018 at 1:33 AM. Reason: Double post
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  #15473  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 1:32 AM
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Wow, how long did you spend digging that up?

Well let's look at the differences with what I said shall we?



The guy that came back from Afghanistan is not someone that JT knew that well that regularly played in a band with him. Besides, my critique was more on the irony of Stephen "You're with us or the pedophiles!" Harper having multiple acquaintances that were in fact pedophiles. Tom Flanagan was worse than that drummer and supported NAMBLA.



And right there my point was proven. It hasn't been confirmed who Joshua Boyle sexually assaulted so we can't rule out him being a pedophile yet, but just look at the attack that was leveled at Trudeau by a conservative for simply even meeting the guy.
It took less than a minute.

Butts thought is was a good idea to use Boyle as a prop. In this case it backfired. It is yet another example of contrived associations building Trudeau's carefully crafted brand. His strengths aren't policy or managerial capacity, they are emotional intelligence and empathy and the best proof is news conferences about or selfies with superficially sympathetic targets. I wonder if any Rolling Stone or Vanity Fair articles on Trudeau as a champion of political prisoners had to be pulled?

Harper played in a pick up band with Nolan. He didn't take any selfies or any steps to associate his brand.

An attempt to understand the context of the Flanagan speech in Lethbridge (ex. he was making a Socratic proposal, first Nations activists are likely motivated to smear him) precludes that example as "irony".
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  #15474  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 1:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Joe from Lower Southwest Mushaboom may not care about a new local community arts centre in downtown Halifax
Fat Donny Parker from Mushaboom cared more about the Moncton Arena. Oscar Leroy cameo at 1:23

Video Link
Start at 39 sec

Last edited by elly63; Jan 4, 2018 at 1:49 AM.
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  #15475  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 3:09 AM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
If we're dealing with the US form of gerrymandering, then yes, it is tantamount to electoral fraud given the extreme bizarre shapes of some electoral districts. Both parties down there may do it, but the Republicans take it to a high art form, and this practice does tend to subvert the electoral process.

Redistribution in Canada is much more fair. It is carried out by independent commissions working within accepted guidelines and the riding boundaries tend to make geographic sense, taking into consideration linguistic groupings, commonality of interest, and population (within a certain range). Rural ridings tend to be a little less populous than urban ridings, but again, this is because there is a feeling that rural ridings shouldn't be so geographically large as to render them unmanageable.

In Nova Scotia for example, a lot of ridings tend to follow county boundaries (if possible), with two ridings geographically constructed to favour Acadian representation and a third riding constructed to give an African Nova Scotian a fair chance of being elected. They do all this at the same time that they try and keep each riding within a certain population range. It's a fine art.

The American system is just nuts.
A lot of the gerrymanders are the result of liberal judges’ having ordered the creation of “majority-minority” districts to ensure black and hispanic representation. This backfired on the Democrats by making the other districts more Republican.
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  #15476  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 4:32 AM
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Christie Blatchford: Charges or no, it was odd for Trudeau to meet with Boyle family.

Joshua Boyle, thank God, must be presumed innocent, so may Justin Trudeau be presumed to be merely stupid.

Continuing the Liberal tradition of looking kindly upon the highly sketchy, Trudeau met Boyle and family in his office on Dec. 18.


http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chri...h-boyle-family
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  #15477  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 12:03 PM
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  #15478  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 12:51 PM
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And you should try looking up the definition of elite sometime. It is only the backward who would argue that the best or most educated shouldn't be ruling.
With 13 years of university under my belt, three degrees, and a highly specialized medical education, you would think I should be a paragon of liberal elitism, but I'm not.

I have humble origins. My father was a railroad telegrapher. My mother stayed at home until my father died and then she kept the family going by working as a seamstress. My generation of the family was the first to go to university (all four of us have degrees, my sister has a masters).

My wife also is of humble origins. She got a BBA at university and her brother is a lawyer (and politician). Her mother however stayed at home and her father was a rural mechanic.

My background may colour my perceptions, but to me, everyone contributes to the functioning of society, not just the academic liberal elites as you seem to feel. I wouldn't trust my malfunctioning car to a university sociology professor, but I would have given it to my father in law. He had a lot of practical experience and common sense. He was arguably more important to society than any elite sociology professor.

Furthermore, in a democracy, all individuals are equal, and everyone has the right to seek elected office - not just the "elites" (as you seem to feel should be the case). Every level of society should have some form of representation at the cabinet table. Should the finance minister have a background in economics or business - obviously so; but similarly the farmer and the fisher has something to contribute as well, and there are portfolios that could benefit from their more practical experience.

Everyone needs a voice - even the "rural hicks"

God save us from the liberal elite bureaucrats from Ottawa...............
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  #15479  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 1:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Black Star View Post
Christie Blatchford: Charges or no, it was odd for Trudeau to meet with Boyle family.

Joshua Boyle, thank God, must be presumed innocent, so may Justin Trudeau be presumed to be merely stupid.

Continuing the Liberal tradition of looking kindly upon the highly sketchy, Trudeau met Boyle and family in his office on Dec. 18.


http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chri...h-boyle-family
The idea that Trudeau and the Liberals are deliberately favourable to the "nasty" people of the world is patently absurd.

On a diplomatic level there is of course the classic "politics makes for strange bedfellows" but on this front there is no evidence that the Liberals when in power have been worse than the Tories. It's part and parcel of the art of governing.

In this particular instance what's at play is this government's extreme obsessive eagerness (with the possible exception of Kent Hehr) to appear tolerant and compassionate.

I am generally satisfied with this government but this is one of the areas where I wish they were a bit more prudent and measured.
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  #15480  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2018, 2:13 PM
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I think the most classic example of Trudeau pandering these sorts of people is when Fidel Castro passed away, and Trudeau praised the leader of meaning so much to the people of Cuba, and that it was a great loss for the people of Cuba, with no regard for Castro's human rights record and complete control he had over the people. It made Canada look real bad on the world stage, especially with our closest ally, the USA.
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