CHICAGO: Transit Developments

[Mr Downtown]

No. Where would you put the third track without totally darkening the sidewalk?

[Baronvonellis]

I don't know, I'm sure an engineer could figure something out. Maybe make the brown line a subway? I know the loop is sacred, but I kind of wish it would be a subway. Like you say it darkens the streets and is super noisy and annoying to walk under, standing on a outdoor platform in freezing windy winter day isn't fun, the tracks would last longer in a subway tunnel not exposed to the elements ect. There's a lot of practical reasons why a subway would be better. Without all those train intersections the trains could run at better headways if they had their own dedicated tracks.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis

I don't know, I'm sure an engineer could figure something out. Maybe make the brown line a subway? I know the loop is sacred, but I kind of wish it would be a subway. Like you say it darkens the streets and is super noisy and annoying to walk under, standing on a outdoor platform in freezing windy winter day isn't fun, the tracks would last longer in a subway tunnel not exposed to the elements ect. There's a lot of practical reasons why a subway would be better. Without all those train intersections the trains could run at better headways if they had their own dedicated tracks.

There were proposals in 1968 to submerge the entire Loop, in the same plan that presented the Monroe subway to Streeterville and McCormick Place.

[Baronvonellis]

Yea, that would have been good. I also really like the Franklin subway they planned in 1977. Basically the brownline would enter a rapid subway from around North/Larrabee and go south to Roosevelt with stops along the way. That would have been great!

Instead they used the federal money for the blue line to Ohare and Midway line which were needed as well. But I think those other lines should have been built too at some point. Maybe if we ever get a National Infrastructure bill passed.

Originally Posted by emathias

There were proposals in 1968 to submerge the entire Loop, in the same plan that presented the Monroe subway to Streeterville and McCormick Place.

[ardecila]

I wish CTA would smooth out those sharp curves on the Brown Line at North Ave before that area gets filled in with development. The sharp curves are halfway between Armitage and Sedgwick, where the train should be traveling at high speed...

[ardecila]

I don't think a one-seat ride from the North Side to the West Loop is a good goal. CTA should instead focus on making the transfers as easy and painless as possible. Put in a direct connection at State/Lake so Red Line folks don't have to cram through two turnstiles. Do the same at Jackson, with a structure in Pritzker Park that links down to the Red/Blue transfer tunnel. This should have been done decades ago, when the plans to tear down the Loop were officially shelved and downtown land was still relatively cheap.

Just get rid of the pain points (cheap compared to a new subway) and people will happily change trains. Especially during peak times when frequency is very high.

I've also thought for a long time that the city should put in the road infrastructure (street connections, bridges, etc) to allow for a north/south bus route roughly along Racine, halfway between Ashland and Halsted. This would hit the center of the West Loop employment cluster, and if the bridges are bus-only, the route would become a faster alternative to the slow, congestion-plagued Halsted bus. It would basically go from the Fullerton station south to Goose Island, the Chicago Blue Line stop, West Loop, UIC. Eventually could be extended down Loomis into Bridgeport for an Orange Line connection.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I wish CTA would smooth out those sharp curves on the Brown Line at North Ave before that area gets filled in with development. The sharp curves are halfway between Armitage and Sedgwick, where the train should be traveling at high speed...

Awww come on, it's not all about efficiency!

One of the greatest things about the Brown Line is those sharp turns right next to peoples' windows, where you can peer in and see a guy watching TV or some girl getting undressed...

Seriously, wannabe cities like Atlanta, Dallas and the like will never build the damn Brown line. Let it remain a bit windy and rickety just for the hell of it.

[Baronvonellis]

Yea, transfer tunnels should have been done a long time ago as well.

Why isn't direct access from the northside to the west loop a good goal? That's where all the new office construction is going. See Google, McDonalds, Tyson foods, post office redevelopment, $500 million investment in the sear tower, 2 new office towers along the river, another wacker drive tower going up soon. Offices are trying to be as close to Ogilvie and Union station area as possible. That area has the best pull from everyone in the burbs plus the city. There should be a direct train from the northside to that spot.

[tjp]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I don't think a one-seat ride from the North Side to the West Loop is a good goal. CTA should instead focus on making the transfers as easy and painless as possible. Put in a direct connection at State/Lake so Red Line folks don't have to cram through two turnstiles. Do the same at Jackson, with a structure in Pritzker Park that links down to the Red/Blue transfer tunnel. This should have been done decades ago, when the plans to tear down the Loop were officially shelved and downtown land was still relatively cheap.

Just get rid of the pain points (cheap compared to a new subway) and people will happily change trains. Especially during peak times when frequency is very high.

I think the State / Lake rehab is planned to include a connection to the Lake red line station, thankfully.

[ardecila]

All the office construction in West Loop (west of the Kennedy) is still only a fraction of the traditional Loop market. CTA’s lines from the North Side are at capacity, so any trains running to West Loop are trains that can’t serve the Central, East, or South Loop. It’s a zero sum game.

The other aspect is that office development isn’t just occurring along the Lake St corridor. Large office development are planned for the Related parcel in South Loop as well as the entire North Branch up to Webster. It’s just not possible for CTA to provide one-seat rides from the North Side to such a dispersed landscape of employment districts... people will have to get used to the idea of making a connection, either to another train line, a bus, or some kind of BRT/LRT system that can cover all these areas at reasonable cost.

Originally Posted by tjp

I think the State / Lake rehab is planned to include a connection to the Lake red line station, thankfully.

That’s unconfirmed, but I certainly hope so!

Building an ADA-compliant connection, in the fare-paid area, linking both the Inner Loop and Outer Loop platforms to the subway platform is a significant and expensive proposition. Possibly all the stairs, elevators, etc could be crammed into the median of State St, but it might actually be easier to gut the Page Brothers building and put all the vertical circulation in there (bye, Chik-Fil-A). The Outer Loop would need a second vertical circulation, but that could be placed in the front yard of CTA’s substation next to Harold Washington College. Then a pedway to link it all to the Red Line.

[Busy Bee]

I'll reiterate how awesome it would be to have a glass helical escalator from the State/Lake platform down to the Red Line.

[IrishIllini]

How could that stretch of the brown/purple lines be straightened short of burying them? Maybe reconstructing the station at Halsted or at North would make it more bearable? Stops at Halsted, Sedgwick, and Division are warranted IMO. I basically view the brown line as the "local" and the red as the "express" after Belmont on Loop bound trains.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I'll reiterate how awesome it would be to have a glass helical escalator from the State/Lake platform down to the Red Line.

Haha, it would be cool, but that platform can be a madhouse. How big of an elevator are you envisioning?

[Baronvonellis]

Well it doesn't have to be a zero sum game. IF the existing lines are at capacity, lets build a whole new subway for these river front areas. From Belmont/Western along the river south to McCormick Place. Long term the old industrial areas that are along the river are going to become prime spots for office space. You can see it is already starting.

[Baronvonellis]

I thought the area along North there was kept free of development so that curve could be straightened. Just demolish the Presence health center on North and use their lot and the other parking lots across the street. The curves wouldn't be eliminated, but it would be much straighter.

[OhioGuy]

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis

Well it doesn't have to be a zero sum game. IF the existing lines are at capacity, lets build a whole new subway for these river front areas. From Belmont/Western along the river south to McCormick Place. Long term the old industrial areas that are along the river are going to become prime spots for office space. You can see it is already starting.

If they're ever going to build a rapid transit line in that area, now would be the time while it's still relatively industrial and the less costly cut and cover subway construction method could be used without disrupting too many people. Once the area becomes filled with more offices & residents, it probably becomes more difficult to do the cut and cover method and the more costly tunnel boring process would become necessary. I assume it tunnel boring process would become increasingly necessary the further south (closer to downtown) the line progresses. Or maybe just set aside a corridor for an elevated rail structure through this industrial redevelopment area and require all developments to adapt around the structure.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

How could that stretch of the brown/purple lines be straightened short of burying them? Maybe reconstructing the station at Halsted or at North would make it more bearable? Stops at Halsted, Sedgwick, and Division are warranted IMO. I basically view the brown line as the "local" and the red as the "express" after Belmont on Loop bound trains.

Out of lazy convenience a Halsted station would be nice, but it’s definitely not on the CTA’s radar since there isn’t the demand. Heck they can’t even get the Dayton street mezzanine reopened on the red line which I find ridiculous since passengers have to cross an auto sewer intersection to get to the head house. I hope along with future modernization of the subterranean areas, they fully reopen North and Clybourn station

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Hayward

Out of lazy convenience a Halsted station would be nice, but it’s definitely not on the CTA’s radar since there isn’t the demand. Heck they can’t even get the Dayton street mezzanine reopened on the red line which I find ridiculous since passengers have to cross an auto sewer intersection to get to the head house. I hope along with future modernization of the subterranean areas, they fully reopen North and Clybourn station

One of several access points that should have been reopened long ago. The Blue line at Grand has an infuriating one right at the eastbound Grand bus stop. People run across four lanes of traffic to try and make the bus.

[OhioGuy]

Originally Posted by Hayward

Out of lazy convenience a Halsted station would be nice, but it’s definitely not on the CTA’s radar since there isn’t the demand. Heck they can’t even get the Dayton street mezzanine reopened on the red line which I find ridiculous since passengers have to cross an auto sewer intersection to get to the head house. I hope along with future modernization of the subterranean areas, they fully reopen North and Clybourn station

Where would one enter from/exit to Dayton Street? Is The Vitamin Shoppe built over the former access point?

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

Where would one enter from/exit to Dayton Street? Is The Vitamin Shoppe built over the former access point?

I was going to ask the same question.