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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 3:21 AM
goldeneyed goldeneyed is offline
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Do the six NY State counties East of the Hudson river feel like New England? I'm talking about Washington, Rennselaer, Columbia, Dutchess, Putnam and Westchester.
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 4:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Citylover94 View Post
New England is not generally Francophone per se but it is one of the most likely languages for someone to speak other than english especially in Northern New England. In Southern New England Spanish is the most common. There are also very strong ties in New England to the Canadian Maritimes and to Quebec to a degree that does not seem common in other regions near Canada with ties dating back hundreds of years.

With Spanish included


Without Spanish included
With regards to Louisiana, you may still hear some Cajun French spoken in the area (especially in the rural areas) between Baton Rouge and Lake Charles along the coast. Further inland there is little French spoken. As far as second languages go, you are much more likely to hear Spanish spoken in New Orleans, Baton Rouge, and even up in Shreveport. There used to be a few local AM radio stations in coastal southern Louisiana where the programming is mostly in Cajun French. I am not sure anybody still listens to AM radio.
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 4:22 AM
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Since no one has mentioned it before, I will provide my own outlook on the Southeast.



I have lived in South Florida most of my life and spent a few years of my childhood in Georgia in the Atlanta area. I have also spent my college years in Eastern Tennessee and visited North Carolina through Asheville.


The Southeast is a mixture of different cultures. Southern all around with increasing Northern influence in several metro areas. Farther south you go in South Florida, the more Northern, Latino, and Caribbean things seem to get these days.


Eventually, the whole geographic East Coast will be very similar and cohesive. It just takes the Southeast catching up to the Northeast in population and mass transit. With Atlanta and Charlotte still sprawling and Florida pretty much becoming more connected, it's only a matter of time.
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 4:25 AM
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So in 2028 we'll be debating over whether South Carolina is "Northeastern"?
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 6:01 AM
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So in 2028 we'll be debating over whether South Carolina is "Northeastern"?
Maybe NY will be considered southern or midwestern with all the transplants flooding into the city and pushing the native New Yorkers out to Florida and points beyond.
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 6:16 AM
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Is there any sort of unified Southern identity that supersedes state identity in a similar way to what you see in New England? I always thought "The South" had a powerful identity, but are Southerners Southern first, Alabamans / Georgians etc. second? Or does the state identify come before being Southern?
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 8:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Citylover94 View Post
Without Spanish included
I found the original Slate article for this and looked at the raw data it links to from the Census Bureau's American Community Survey because I didn't think that Italian could possibly be the correct answer for PA. According to what I saw, German exceeds Italian by a few thousand (they are both in the 50,000-60,000 range) and Pennsylvania Dutch, which is derived from German, would add about 46,000 people. I viewed the spreadsheet from my phone so maybe I am missing something but I would take this chart with a grain of salt.
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 2:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
^ Well, you'd never see an ad like this run in New England:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuzu6iS036Q
But is speaking French really seen as a big deal that just seems strange to me to include in an attack ad. I understand the rest of the ad and what it was trying to do, but that just seemed like a weird note to end on.
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Is there any sort of unified Southern identity that supersedes state identity in a similar way to what you see in New England? I always thought "The South" had a powerful identity, but are Southerners Southern first, Alabamans / Georgians etc. second? Or does the state identify come before being Southern?
the south is geographically gigantic compared to new england...i really think states supersedes any pan-southern identity.
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 2:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citylover94 View Post
But is speaking French really seen as a big deal that just seems strange to me to include in an attack ad. I understand the rest of the ad and what it was trying to do, but that just seemed like a weird note to end on.
Back in the days when France was highly critical of Bush's military intervention in Iraq, and led the charge of Western countries against that war, it made sense. To some people.

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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 3:29 PM
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Originally Posted by eixample View Post
I found the original Slate article for this and looked at the raw data it links to from the Census Bureau's American Community Survey because I didn't think that Italian could possibly be the correct answer for PA. According to what I saw, German exceeds Italian by a few thousand (they are both in the 50,000-60,000 range) and Pennsylvania Dutch, which is derived from German, would add about 46,000 people. I viewed the spreadsheet from my phone so maybe I am missing something but I would take this chart with a grain of salt.
These "language spoken at home" US Census studies are worthless.
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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
I guess the answer may be obvious, but I am curious what you guys might think.


For more insight for those who aren't familiar, the Mid-Atlantic States includes New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Washington DC, Virginia, and West Virginia.


New England includes Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire.


The Southeast includes Florida, Georgia, North and South Carolina, and usually Virginia, Delaware, West Virginia, and DC.

I think you can omit South Florida from the Southeast. Palm Beach, Broward, and Dade Counties are more like a Mid-Atlantic colony. And the Keys? They're a completely different entity altogether.
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 3:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Is there any sort of unified Southern identity that supersedes state identity in a similar way to what you see in New England? I always thought "The South" had a powerful identity, but are Southerners Southern first, Alabamans / Georgians etc. second? Or does the state identify come before being Southern?
Alabamians*

I'd say that Southerners first identify with their state, then with The South.

Hell, just in Alabama I'd say folks first identify with what part of the state their from before identifying with the state as a whole. That's why our government is so f*****g dysfunctional... a Republican from the Gulf Coast is totally different from a Republican in the mountains of Northeast AL and a Democrat form Birmingham is totally different from a Democrat in the Wiregrass in Southeast AL.
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by goldeneyed View Post
Do the six NY State counties East of the Hudson river feel like New England? I'm talking about Washington, Rennselaer, Columbia, Dutchess, Putnam and Westchester.
Further west than that. As far west as the Utica area have somewhat of a New England feel to them. More so than NYC or Buffalo. Unfortunately, Patriots and Red Sox fans there too....
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 4:36 PM
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tascalisa View Post
Alabamians*

I'd say that Southerners first identify with their state, then with The South.

Hell, just in Alabama I'd say folks first identify with what part of the state their from before identifying with the state as a whole. That's why our government is so f*****g dysfunctional... a Republican from the Gulf Coast is totally different from a Republican in the mountains of Northeast AL and a Democrat form Birmingham is totally different from a Democrat in the Wiregrass in Southeast AL.
i'd add that most importantly, metro vs non-metro has probably become the most important identifier in the south i think, more than probably any other region, at least within states. even though i live in a "northern" city i also live in a half-southern state so i can sort of speak to this. i've noticed this in louisiana and georgia as well. other states are a bit more cohesive. the cultural rift is often just so much larger in southern states compared to say the northeast, or even northern midwest.
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
I think you can omit South Florida from the Southeast. Palm Beach, Broward, and Dade Counties are more like a Mid-Atlantic colony. And the Keys? They're a completely different entity altogether.
There is nothing "Mid-Atlantic" about Miami-Dade to me. That whole closely-connected to NY/East Coast feeling pretty much died by the late '80s... and it was always more apt to Miami Beach northward, than it was Miami anyway.

I can maybe see Palm Beach and Broward counties more closely fitting that bill.
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
i'd add that most importantly, metro vs non-metro has probably become the most important identifier in the south i think, more than probably any other region, at least within states. even though i live in a "northern" city i also live in a half-southern state so i can sort of speak to this. i've noticed this in louisiana and georgia as well. other states are a bit more cohesive. the cultural rift is often just so much larger in southern states compared to say the northeast, or even northern midwest.
I'd agree. Culturally, in Alabama, the Big 4 + Tuscaloosa are quite different. It also makes makes a big impact that our 4 most populated metros are at least an hour apart.

Growing up in North Alabama, even Birmingham seemed a world away. Mobile might as well have been in a completely different state; it certainly has more in common with its younger brother New Orleans than it does with Birmingham and Huntsville.
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 5:24 PM
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
I think you can omit South Florida from the Southeast. Palm Beach, Broward, and Dade Counties are more like a Mid-Atlantic colony. And the Keys? They're a completely different entity altogether.
No. South Florida is still in Florida and is still in the southeast, no matter who moves there.

Should we omit NYC because of all of the newcomers that have changed it's historic identity? No.

NYC is nothing like the surrounding region that it is located in.
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2018, 5:30 PM
goldeneyed goldeneyed is offline
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Further west than that. As far west as the Utica area have somewhat of a New England feel to them. More so than NYC or Buffalo. Unfortunately, Patriots and Red Sox fans there too....
Maybe these professional sports teams fan maps can shed more light on regional associations between groups of states.

MLB:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...eball-map.html

NBA:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...tball-map.html

NFL:
https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/m...M/original.png

NHL:
http://www.businessinsider.com/nhl-t...y-state-2016-1
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