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  #8081  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2018, 3:27 PM
JurassicPhilly JurassicPhilly is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post

Maybe someone that was around in the early 1980's can give a perspective of city living around that time and if we had a vibrant downtown. I believe the population was higher in the early 80's than it is now, but it would be good to get it into full context.
I was a kid living in West Chester in the early 80s, but my impression is this was a time of serious decline for Center City. Downtown was largely empty at night.

I think the overall population of the city in the early 80s was roughly the same as it is today. But due to the renaissance that has taken place downtown, I suspect the population of Center City is actually quite a bit higher now than it was in the early 80s. Just walking around there these days there are a ton more pedestrians than there were even in the late 90s.
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  #8082  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2018, 5:34 AM
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Lighting when completed

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  #8083  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2018, 7:01 AM
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That’s some powerful LED lights!!
I’m surprised that we don’t have a giant Comcast logo up there.
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  #8084  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2018, 1:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JurassicPhilly View Post
I was a kid living in West Chester in the early 80s, but my impression is this was a time of serious decline for Center City. Downtown was largely empty at night.

I think the overall population of the city in the early 80s was roughly the same as it is today. But due to the renaissance that has taken place downtown, I suspect the population of Center City is actually quite a bit higher now than it was in the early 80s. Just walking around there these days there are a ton more pedestrians than there were even in the late 90s.
Per wikipedia:

1900 1,293,697 +23.6%
1910 1,549,008 +19.7%
1920 1,823,779 +17.7%
1930 1,950,961 +7.0%
1940 1,931,334 −1.0%
1950 2,071,605 +7.3%
1960 2,002,512 −3.3%
1970 1,948,609 −2.7%
1980 1,688,210 −13.4%
1990 1,585,577 −6.1%
2000 1,517,550 −4.3%
2010 1,526,006 +0.6%
2014 1,560,297 +2.2%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...f_Philadelphia

The growth of Center City in the past decade or so, whether or not you include its expanded boundaries, is well-known.

https://www.centercityphila.org/research-reports/socc

See page 4 of pdf for CC population growth since 2000. https://www.centercityphila.org/uplo...-socc-full.pdf
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Last edited by Jayfar; Mar 11, 2018 at 1:18 PM.
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  #8085  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2018, 10:17 PM
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When flipping channels to watch the evening news, several broadcasters show the old skyline, completely ignoring this new giant!!

I change channels the instant I see that crap!!

NBC 10 shows this tower during their evening news broadcast!!
They are also the official station of the Philadelphia Eagles!!
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  #8086  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2018, 11:31 PM
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volguus zildrohar volguus zildrohar is offline
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Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy View Post
When flipping channels to watch the evening news, several broadcasters show the old skyline, completely ignoring this new giant!!

I change channels the instant I see that crap!!

NBC 10 shows this tower during their evening news broadcast!!
They are also the official station of the Philadelphia Eagles!!
Perhaps because the building isn't even finished yet?

NBC10 has a reason to acknowledge this particular unfinished building - other stations don't.

Calm yourself.
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  #8088  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 1:04 AM
MichaelScottsOffice MichaelScottsOffice is offline
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Awesome pics, top one is best yet of CTC I think
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  #8089  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 1:04 AM
MichaelScottsOffice MichaelScottsOffice is offline
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At night
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  #8090  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 2:54 AM
JurassicPhilly JurassicPhilly is offline
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I have been at best ambivalent about CTC. But I am shocked at how awesome it is looking. I never would have imagined that it would turn out this well. The finishing touches have made all the difference in the world.
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  #8091  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
Chrysler bldg NYC is 101 ft taller and built I think 60 years before Liberty 1. Chrysler gets into the clouds on cloudy and rainy days.

Even if Liberty was taller, I don't think it would have made other buildings around it taller. Liberty was being built coming out the the 1981-1982 post recession era. So, if the economy was improving, it wasn't firing on all cylinders yet. And, I think back then, Philly was manufacturing more so then having a thriving white collar office type work expansion so probably less demand for office space and therefore less demand for office tower construction.

Maybe someone that was around in the early 1980's can give a perspective of city living around that time and if we had a vibrant downtown. I believe the population was higher in the early 80's than it is now, but it would be good to get it into full context.
In the early 80's, it depended on where you lived in the city. The Great Northeast was pretty much unscathed from the rot of decline that had ravaged other parts of the city. Center City was a hodge podge of vibrant pockets on one street and then dreadful on the next. The streets were not well lit.....you didn't really enjoy being on the streets at night. The streets were much trashier in Center City. Graffiti was everywhere on everything. When I would be on a train with my mom...it came into the Reading Terminal. The shed itself was a sight to see as you got off the train...but it smelled in there of exhaust and diesel. The terminal building was worn down. It just seemed like the city had seen better days. Not that getting off the train at Market East is any grand entrance...but even with it being 34 years old...it still seems modern and SEPTA hasn't let it fall into total disrepair.

...and Center City sidewalk cafes in the 1980's? Unfathomable.

The city wobbled for sure...but it never completely fell. It just had enough to stay above the water until the pieces started to slowly come together to what you see today.
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  #8092  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 12:51 PM
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That's a good looking cluster of buildings.
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  #8093  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 1:38 PM
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  #8094  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 1:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PhillyRising View Post
In the early 80's, it depended on where you lived in the city. The Great Northeast was pretty much unscathed from the rot of decline that had ravaged other parts of the city. Center City was a hodge podge of vibrant pockets on one street and then dreadful on the next. The streets were not well lit.....you didn't really enjoy being on the streets at night. The streets were much trashier in Center City. Graffiti was everywhere on everything. When I would be on a train with my mom...it came into the Reading Terminal. The shed itself was a sight to see as you got off the train...but it smelled in there of exhaust and diesel. The terminal building was worn down. It just seemed like the city had seen better days. Not that getting off the train at Market East is any grand entrance...but even with it being 34 years old...it still seems modern and SEPTA hasn't let it fall into total disrepair.

...and Center City sidewalk cafes in the 1980's? Unfathomable.

The city wobbled for sure...but it never completely fell. It just had enough to stay above the water until the pieces started to slowly come together to what you see today.

Both are completely correct. I'm not telling my age but I started working in downtown in the 1980's; Philadelphia and downtown especially was in a transition period at the time; we were moving from being a city that was coming out of an industrial base to a professional, tech and service oriented city.

Before I would say 1980 you could feel the change and people were planning things but a recession in the early 80's slowed things down. Before 1980 downtown was real, well it was simpler. If you were into high culture you were along Board Street to hear the Orchestra at the Academy of Music; right after 1980 Eugene Ormandy passed a way so it was a period of transition there. If you were into shopping you went to East Market Street where the Gallery brought new life to the shopping strip; remember Lit Brothers and Gimbles had just closed a few years earlier. But once you got to I would say 12th Street all you had was steak shops and bowling alleys like around 17th Street. If you wanted to make money or be a professional back then it was pretty well assumed that you had to leave town and go to New York or LA; it was assumed that people here were to small minded and didn't want Philadelphia to be more than a small town; but you had leaders who wanted to really make the city better. Mayor Green, Mayor Goode, Mayor Rendell; Rendell was most fortunate because of his timing more than anything else I suppose.

The attempts to remake downtown Philadelphia really started I guess with the construction of the Aramark Building and New Market on 2nd near South Street; that was the first place where you had outdoor cafe's and things like that but it was really ahead of its time by about a decade.

Liberty One, oh wow; I remember that. When they talk about building Liberty One it was about 1983 or 1984 I guess and I was so excited; a lot of us young adults were; my parents were to; but you had these people who didn't want anything tall being built in the city; it was insane; oh it was so insane; I will never forget it which is why I am probably obsessed with height now; they were talking out ads in the Inquirer and everything trying to make the idea of Liberty One look bad like I remember one add they had where that had William Penn's statue surround by skyscrapers; then about add had his Quaker hat with Liberty One's spire poking a hole out of the top of his hat.

It was ridiculous; that's probably why I don't trust the media now; we wanted Philly to build a skyline; bring business; be a place for families since 1970 and some of my friends who love skyscrapers had been wanting it since the 1960's but those Nimby's; dude it was insane. We wanted anything to give us a skyline and bring life and business into the city and especially downtown so when they built Liberty One, me, my friends, even my father who helped worked on the saw how it was changing the city for the better because to hope that Mr. Rouse wouldn't just build Liberty Two but that he would make it 100 floors; there was the rumour it would be wider and be 100 floors.

Sadly after decades of frustration we got a good pair of buildings but we didn't get our wish; but Comcast Tech is the height of the Hancock Tower which is 100 floors; so at least we're close.
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  #8095  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 4:26 PM
ekt8750 ekt8750 is offline
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Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar View Post
Perhaps because the building isn't even finished yet?

NBC10 has a reason to acknowledge this particular unfinished building - other stations don't.

Calm yourself.
NBC 10's backdrop is a live camera feed. The other stations just use a looped video.
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  #8096  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 4:44 PM
Prezrezc Prezrezc is offline
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If that's University City on the right, I'd call this the best vantage point of the whole skyline I've seen. SY and 30thSS will look great there.
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  #8097  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 5:56 PM
City Wide City Wide is offline
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Originally Posted by PhillyRising View Post
In the early 80's, it depended on where you lived in the city. The Great Northeast was pretty much unscathed from the rot of decline that had ravaged other parts of the city. Center City was a hodge podge of vibrant pockets on one street and then dreadful on the next. The streets were not well lit.....you didn't really enjoy being on the streets at night. The streets were much trashier in Center City. Graffiti was everywhere on everything. When I would be on a train with my mom...it came into the Reading Terminal. The shed itself was a sight to see as you got off the train...but it smelled in there of exhaust and diesel. The terminal building was worn down. It just seemed like the city had seen better days. Not that getting off the train at Market East is any grand entrance...but even with it being 34 years old...it still seems modern and SEPTA hasn't let it fall into total disrepair.

...and Center City sidewalk cafes in the 1980's? Unfathomable.

The city wobbled for sure...but it never completely fell. It just had enough to stay above the water until the pieces started to slowly come together to what you see today.
I'd agree with you about the negative things you list, but damn, that old train shed was something else---full of character. I got to Philly in the mid 70's after hanging out in Europe for a couple years and lived on Sansom St. in CC for awhile before heading to Powelton Village. I thought it was full of life. There were many more movie theaters, both old and new, and they were being used. Rittenhouse Sq. and Society Hill were abuzz. South St. was coming back to life. I loved Chinatown. Old City was getting started and was very much still the area for wholesale vendors. Sure it was different then from now, and maybe it is better now; there are more neighborhoods with people living in them now, both in CC and the surrounding areas, but CC was not a dead zone but any stretch. Every generation seems to think "it" discovered sex, and everyone before them was completely repressed and that babies were delivered by birds. Wrong! I remember meeting people in the 70's who talked about Philly in the 50's as being the glory years. But does it matter? All we got is now and maybe tomorrow.
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  #8098  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 6:23 PM
jjv007 jjv007 is online now
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Originally Posted by Prezrezc View Post
If that's University City on the right, I'd call this the best vantage point of the whole skyline I've seen. SY and 30thSS will look great there.
This is the famous Belmont Plateau
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  #8099  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
I'd agree with you about the negative things you list, but damn, that old train shed was something else---full of character. I got to Philly in the mid 70's after hanging out in Europe for a couple years and lived on Sansom St. in CC for awhile before heading to Powelton Village. I thought it was full of life. There were many more movie theaters, both old and new, and they were being used. Rittenhouse Sq. and Society Hill were abuzz. South St. was coming back to life. I loved Chinatown. Old City was getting started and was very much still the area for wholesale vendors. Sure it was different then from now, and maybe it is better now; there are more neighborhoods with people living in them now, both in CC and the surrounding areas, but CC was not a dead zone but any stretch. Every generation seems to think "it" discovered sex, and everyone before them was completely repressed and that babies were delivered by birds. Wrong! I remember meeting people in the 70's who talked about Philly in the 50's as being the glory years. But does it matter? All we got is now and maybe tomorrow.
Great post. CC was different back then but just as vibrant in different ways and in different places. I'd take Market East circa 1980 over today all day long.
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  #8100  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 8:24 PM
JurassicPhilly JurassicPhilly is offline
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Originally Posted by Prezrezc View Post
If that's University City on the right, I'd call this the best vantage point of the whole skyline I've seen. SY and 30thSS will look great there.
I have to laugh every time I see a pic of the city from Belmont. I used to run cross country races at Belmont in the late 80s. It was an absolutely brutal course to run. Far harder than any other course I ran in the entire country. That spot where the pic was taken was towards the end of the race. By the time you got there you were ready to drop dead from exhaustion and the only thing that kept you going was the knowledge it would be over soon. The skyline has changed since then, but I still get a queasy feeling whenever I see the city from that spot. Oh the humanity!
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