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  #1  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 12:40 PM
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Smile NEW YORK | 2 Penn Plaza | FT | FLOORS

The plot thickens....

Once thing is certain: This area will dwarf the HY.

https://therealdeal.com/2018/04/09/v...r-giant-tower/
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  #2  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 12:51 PM
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From the redevelopment thread...I may have to merge the two.


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I wonder if Cuomo's proposal will include a return of this proposal for 2 Penn...it would have lifted a max FAR cap on the site.




Can't say that I am shocked.




https://therealdeal.com/2018/04/09/v...r-giant-tower/

Vornado considers tearing down 2 Penn to make way for giant tower
Steve Roth says REIT has grand plan for Penn Plaza "Promised Land"



By Kathryn Brenzel
April 09, 2018


Quote:
In his annual letter to investors, Vornado Realty Trust CEO Steve Roth said the company is considering razing 2 Penn Plaza to make way for a new building that would double the current tower’s footprint.

Quote:
By demolishing the 1.6-million-square-foot tower, Vornado would potentially be able to transfer some of the 5 million square feet of air rights at Madison Square Garden, which the real estate investment trust co-owns with the Dolan family. Some of the air rights could be “sprinkled to adjacent sites,” Roth noted, but the intention seems to be to create massive new development.

“The old 2 Penn has a 60,000 square foot footprint, the new [one] would have a 120,000 square foot-plus footprint at the base, perfect for our creative class tenants,” Roth said. “There would be towers above and a significant retail component below sandwiched between the train station and the office base.”

Unlocking those air rights would require the redevelopment of Penn Station.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 12:53 PM
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NY clearly is the Greatest City in the World!
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 1:46 PM
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More takeaways. Having only three to five new buildings potentially account for the 5MM sf of development rights that sit on top of MSG, would make those very large buildings.

"...Roth does seem, however, to envision a large-scale reboot of Penn Plaza, which he refers to in the letter as the “Promised Land.” He says the REIT’s “grand plan” is to construct three to five new buildings on the sites it owns in the district...

...According to Roth, tearing down 2 Penn Station would allow light to reach the eastern half of Penn Station and enable improvements to the station — also a stated goal of the governor. Roth envisions the improvement would be “self-financed” through payments in lieu of taxes..."
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 2:25 PM
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We need to see more of this - development above what is allowed by zoning in exchange for public benefit. The city and the state no longer have the funding available for the much needed infrastructure investments, so it's time to unlock the value of the land.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 2:39 PM
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I'm trying to wrap my head around how they intend to double the footprint. That would mean reclaiming the 7th Ave space, and possibly some of the space between MSG.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 3:01 PM
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They also mention letting light pass through the east end of Penn which suggests to me that 2 Penn would be rebuilt somewhere else. Maybe on the corner of 8th and 34th where the Duane Reade is.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 3:04 PM
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They also mention letting light pass through the east end of Penn which suggests to me that 2 Penn would be rebuilt somewhere else. Maybe on the corner of 8th and 34th where the Duane Reade is.
No, that site is too small, and they aren't going to take down 1 Penn.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 3:13 PM
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True. It is too small. Hopefully, they intend to raze MSG and build the tower over the 8th Ave side of the current station.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 4:54 PM
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Two things I wouldn't mind seeing bite the dust:

1. 2 Penn...that squat embarrassment.

2. MSG. And take the Knics and rangers with them. Dolan, Sather and Gorton are Moe, Larry and Curly Joe.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 5:26 PM
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True. It is too small. Hopefully, they intend to raze MSG and build the tower over the 8th Ave side of the current station.
Hopefully they intend to raze MSG, agreed. But this proposal is not that. This is replacing 2 penn with a larger building and opening up the base and lower levels for light, this 2nd tidbit is invaluable and will really change the area and the station in more consequential ways then the more cosmetic proposals cuomo's office has proposed for penn so far.

The extra floor area comes from all of that plaza space around the building. Take a look at NYGUY's midtown district map and see the red "C6-6" square. That's the separate tax lot for 2 penn and where this will be built, and you can see how big it is compared to the building that sits on it.

If MSG ever does go they probably shouldn't put any skyscrapers in its place, it should really be a spacious headhouse.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSsocal View Post
Hopefully they intend to raze MSG, agreed. But this proposal is not that. This is replacing 2 penn with a larger building and opening up the base and lower levels for light, this 2nd tidbit is invaluable and will really change the area and the station in more consequential ways then the more cosmetic proposals cuomo's office has proposed for penn so far.

The extra floor area comes from all of that plaza space around the building. Take a look at NYGUY's midtown district map and see the red "C6-6" square. That's the separate tax lot for 2 penn and where this will be built, and you can see how big it is compared to the building that sits on it.

If MSG ever does go they probably shouldn't put any skyscrapers in its place, it should really be a spacious headhouse.
I think that this is part of a bigger proposal that will include MSG.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 6:41 PM
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 7:20 PM
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^While I can understand the arguments for why people want to keep 270 Park Ave, and why it would be an architectural loss, I don't think anyone in their right mind can defend, or will miss this hunk of junk
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 7:45 PM
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I wonder if we are looking at a 4 mil-sq foot tower? On the level of Met Life, only taller. The potential is certainty there. With the transit options being the given, this is the perfect location to satisfy that nice Class-A space demand.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 8:04 PM
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Quote:
“There would be towers above and a significant retail component below sandwiched between the train station and the office base.”
Sounds almost similar to what they were proposing a decade ago.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 8:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
I wonder if we are looking at a 4 mil-sq foot tower? On the level of Met Life, only taller. The potential is certainty there. With the transit options being the given, this is the perfect location to satisfy that nice Class-A space demand.
I think they will take the opportunity to pull back the footprint to increase sidewalk/plaza space because of Penn, so I wouldn't assume we're talking about a 4 million sq ft scale here... probably 2.5-3.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 9:18 PM
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A possible solution for this project that comes from the past.

You imagine a tower like this, located in that position but with 2,5-3 million sq ft and 1,350-1,500 ft tall.

With this solution there would be more space for the new Penn Station
.



1964, concept for Clive Entwistle's Madison Square Garden
proposal in association with Charles Luckman Associates.
http://www.grahamfoundation.org
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky88 View Post
A possible solution for this project that comes from the past.

You imagine a tower like this, located in that position but with 2,5-3 million sq ft and 1,350-1,500 ft tall.

With this solution there would be more space for the new Penn Station
.

Except that they are doubling the footprint of the existing building.


Just using this old proposal for informational purposes, but opening the station up to daylight doesn't necessarily mean leaving the entire site open (although that's what Cuomo's plan calls for along 33rd Street).

A tower on the 2 Penn site could "hover" above the station below.


















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Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 10:25 PM
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A new tallest, like a mega tall, would be sweet. This is the perfect location for one too.
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